4 speed guys, I have a question :

-
318willrun

318willrun

Utube channel 318willrun
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
21,512
Reaction score
27,850
Location
I'm here
I've not done much in the way of manual shift projects. I love manuals, I've owned manuals, I've done clutch/pressure plate/ throwout bearings, and I have general "public" knowledge on manuals. But not specifics and I'm certainly no guru :D

Here is my question: I bought a '74 D300 (one ton dually) truck. Cab is the same as a D100, but the chassis/frame is certainly beefed up. It has a 4 speed and a 360 in it.
  • Will this bellhousing work for a 833?
  • Say someone was putting a 4 speed in a Duster, would this bellhousing work?
 
D300 flywheel / bellhousing isn't correct. No 833 pattern and uses a 143 tooth flywheel. Car top/right. Truck bottom/left.
20230604_110811.jpg


20230604_110503.jpg
 
Now there is something I didn’t know among much other stuff. I’ll keep that in mind as I own a 69 D300.
 
Always wanted to put a standard A-body A833 in a truck. But I think the shifter mount would be too far back.
 
Most trucks beyond a 1/2 ton used the "granny gear" 4 speed which is a new process 435 unit. The bolt pattern is different, its huge and HEAVY. Light duty trucks occasionally had the overdrive 833, light duty, same pattern as a regular a/b/e 4speed, but with a larger bearing retainer.
 
Great will it run video! Two variants of HD transmissions were used. Geometric (Named as such because each gear is half of the prior gear, except direct high) NP435 (also called 435E) 6.68:1 1st, 3.34:1, 1.67:1 3rd, 1:1 (direct high) and 8.26:1 reverse. I identify the gears as deep reduction, low, intermediate, and direct, it reminds me of a Mack off road tandem truck transmission... And the close ration 445 (also tagged as a 435A) 4.56 1st, 2.28:1 2nd, 1.31 3rd, and direct high, and 5.64 reverse. Yours has the 445 close ratio, which was more common in the full ton trucks. You can tell because of the narrow neutral gate. The 4.35 shift lever goes from the dashboard to the seat between 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th with a W-I-D- E neutral gate. You're probably going to find a 4.88 Dana 70 in the rear with 1350 universal joints and a large two piece driveline. Clutch is at least an 11 inch HD. Great score, I need one of those trucks in my life!
 
replicaracer43 said:
Most trucks beyond a 1/2 ton used the "granny gear" 4 speed which is a new process 435 unit. The bolt pattern is different, its huge and HEAVY. Light duty trucks occasionally had the overdrive 833, light duty, same pattern as a regular a/b/e 4speed, but with a larger bearing retainer.
Click to expand...
It sure is a slow shifting dump truck of a transmission. Strong though.
I’d have to move my divorced transfer case and crossmember back a few inches.

My first attempt would be to use the shorter A-Body tail housing but would need the shifter in the B/body location. So an adapter plate (similar to the B-Body trans in an A-body adapter plate) would need to be made, only in reverse, …….I think. ****. I dunno. Lol
 
Was wondering if that is a "Top Loader" 4 speed truck transmission, with the stick coming out the top?

Granny gear 1st, 4 speed?

☆☆☆☆☆
 
replicaracer43 said:
Most trucks beyond a 1/2 ton used the "granny gear" 4 speed which is a new process 435 unit. The bolt pattern is different, its huge and HEAVY. Light duty trucks occasionally had the overdrive 833, light duty, same pattern as a regular a/b/e 4speed, but with a larger bearing retainer.
Click to expand...
Yes, I thought it to be the 435.
 
Last edited:
Garrett Ellison said:
Great will it run video! Two variants of HD transmissions were used. Geometric (Named as such because each gear is half of the prior gear, except direct high) NP435 (also called 435E) 6.68:1 1st, 3.34:1, 1.67:1 3rd, 1:1 (direct high) and 8.26:1 reverse. I identify the gears as deep reduction, low, intermediate, and direct, it reminds me of a Mack off road tandem truck transmission... And the close ration 445 (also tagged as a 435A) 4.56 1st, 2.28:1 2nd, 1.31 3rd, and direct high, and 5.64 reverse. Yours has the 445 close ratio, which was more common in the full ton trucks. You can tell because of the narrow neutral gate. The 4.35 shift lever goes from the dashboard to the seat between 1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th with a W-I-D- E neutral gate. You're probably going to find a 4.88 Dana 70 in the rear with 1350 universal joints and a large two piece driveline. Clutch is at least an 11 inch HD. Great score, I need one of those trucks in my life!
Click to expand...
Great info! So 445 would be mine you think?
 
Yes. You can tell by the sound of the short throw shifter. They usually had a 16-1/2 inch wheels and tire diameters of around 33 inches, hence the 4.88 gears. I’ve also seen 4.56 gears in the big block trucks. The geometric 435 transmission was typically in trucks with 4.10 or higher gearing, except for definite some slant six (I had a '73 D100 with 3.55 8-3/8 rear) trucks. I’m sure that you can find exceptions to that. There’s a fender type ID tag that will identify all your options (being the under hood sticker on yours is gone), but it’s underneath the cowl panel. A cell phone bore camera may get you a picture of it. I forgot that I did once have a '71 D100 parts truck that had a 3.23 8-3/4 and an NP445 in it, so they were'nt just a heavy duty only thing, but you usually saw more 435 transmissions in half tons.
 
Last edited:
1/2 tons did use A833 overdrive units. Whether they used the bigger "truck" flywheel I do not know. They were a long tail gearbox like a B body
 
mopardude318 said:
It sure is a slow shifting dump truck of a transmission. Strong though.
I’d have to move my divorced transfer case and crossmember back a few inches.

My first attempt would be to use the shorter A-Body tail housing but would need the shifter in the B/body location. So an adapter plate (similar to the B-Body trans in an A-body adapter plate) would need to be made, only in reverse, …….I think. ****. I dunno. Lol
Click to expand...
I just caught this thread and I happened to have my duster four speed and bellhousing out of the car on the garage floor...
Just some quick very ruff measurements I got about twenty inches from the front of the bell housing to where the four wheel drive shifters are on the driver side and about twenty four inches Full length on the short shaft seven twenty seven with my divorce transfer case...
I got about twenty eight inches from the beginning of the bellhousing back to about the center of the shifter mounting plate on the four speed and probably another five inches past that..
My Guess would be four problems at least I can see.. First the clutch linkage which could be solved by hydraulic throughout Bearing, not cheap...
From the measurements I'm doing it looks like the bracket would need to be made to move the shifter forward as it seems shifter from an a Body four speed and bell housing would come up darn near underneath the seat..
The last 2 problems The size of the small intermediate drive shaft would need to be much shorter and it may change the geometry of the drive line... I think the slip yoke would be easy to just make a smaller drive line as there isn't much movement between the transmission which is pretty much fixed and the transfer case. Probably more vibration movement than anything..
 
I'm pretty sure that LWB ton will have a two piece driveline withfixed yoke on the transmission and a carrier bearing and spline output at half back crossmember. The long section that attaches to it will have the slip yoke. They're usually slap worn out in trucks this old. Lack of greasing is a killer for them.
 
Garrett Ellison said:
I'm pretty sure that LWB ton will have a two piece driveline withfixed yoke on the transmission and a carrier bearing and spline output at half back crossmember. The long section that attaches to it will have the slip yoke. They're usually slap worn out in trucks this old. Lack of greasing is a killer for them.
Click to expand...
I had to have all four of my drive lines rebuilt and I replaced the carrier bearing.... very expensive...
 
67Dart273 said:
1/2 tons did use A833 overdrive units. Whether they used the bigger "truck" flywheel I do not know. They were a long tail gearbox like a B body
Click to expand...
I took a 833 out of a B100 van once and it had the 11" flywheel. Wish I keep it. I do not see why the bell housing would not work, as long as it were installed as a set with the transmission (I believe you are referring to the one on the left. The one on the right is a 833). It might be a little tight but should be able to make it fit. I do not see why a 10.5 inch flywheel would not fit also as long as the transmission input was snug in the bellhousing.
 
318willrun said:
I've not done much in the way of manual shift projects. I love manuals, I've owned manuals, I've done clutch/pressure plate/ throwout bearings, and I have general "public" knowledge on manuals. But not specifics and I'm certainly no guru :D

Here is my question: I bought a '74 D300 (one ton dually) truck. Cab is the same as a D100, but the chassis/frame is certainly beefed up. It has a 4 speed and a 360 in it.
  • Will this bellhousing work for a 833?
  • Say someone was putting a 4 speed in a Duster, would this bellhousing work?
Click to expand...
Here is a sb truck bellhousing for a 143-tooth flywheel and 5.125" hole that I saw on eBay or somewhere and saved the pictures. I has a A230 3 spd pattern, an NP435 pattern and an A833 pattern. There were supposed to be a few big block truck bellhousings made with these 3 patterns also. Too bad this one is so rough.

s-l1600 (1).jpg


s-l1600 (3).jpg
 
446acuda said:
Here is a sb truck bellhousing for a 143-tooth flywheel and 5.125" hole that I saw on eBay or somewhere and saved the pictures. I has a A230 3 spd pattern, an NP435 pattern and an A833 pattern. There were supposed to be a few big block truck bellhousings made with these 3 patterns also. Too bad this one is so rough.

View attachment 1716103061

View attachment 1716103062
Click to expand...
Good info, thank you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top