400 stroker or 440

400 stroker or 440

  • Build a 451

    Votes: 51 28.7%

  • Sell my 440 stuff and build a 451

    Votes: 37 20.8%

  • Keep 440 and build that

    Votes: 90 50.6%
  • Total voters
    178
  • Poll closed .
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demon1515 said:
OK i have read all the comments here and i just come to a conclusion,
Lets be real here,
If he build the 440 it will last for ever no mater what he trow at it remember guys this is no race car here and he don't need 900 HP.
All in all a well built & tuned 440 will give him 450+ HP in a budget with more torque to spare than a 451,
Size is not to significant to take it in consideration,
Weight, neither,
So why take the inconvenience on doing such an engine when you can have what you need in the 440?

Buddy if you are not building a serious race only machine, save the head etches and build your 440 you will be more than happy with your end results and even in the 650 hp range it will last for years to come, if done properly.
Click to expand...

How do you figure it will give more torque? Compared to a stock 400 yes,but not to a 451. I'd say the 451 will give the same tq as a 440 and more h.p due to the light recip weight.

A 451 is every bit as rock solid and reliable as a 440. It's a MoPar! Seriously the bottom end is the same as a 440,but the 400 block is stronger. It's also lighter and physically smaller than a 440,being a B block Makes it easier to fit in a Dart.If you want real world comparisons go install a 440 and then replace it with a 400. Come back and tell us which fits better,lol!

Heck even a stock stroke 400 will give you over 500 h.p easily...it has the largest bore of any mopar engine and this helps a motor breath.

Im not a 440 hater by any means,but the advantages to a B block in a Dart are not as insignificant as you seem to think.

I cant remember the weights of the respective blocks but lighter is lighter! Even if it saves 50 lb's this is great! Weight savings in a street car are important too. Will show up at the pump in $$ saved..

Myself if given the choice I'll go for the 400 every time.
 
if the 440 is done write it will be a very strong street car and you will save some money..I have had some 11sec.street cars with very dependable motors...and wasnt to bad on gas..Artie
 
NOT that it matters, just TRIVIA,
Most "Strength" issues got covered,
but,
a few things may have been missed in the 400/440 block strength discussions ?

* Although nominal Sonic Test Cylinder Wall dimensions are Identical from Lowdeck to Bigdeck, the SHORTER cylinder wall 400 gets the nod for greater Rigidity by having less unsupported length.
.700" ain't a huge deal, but every little bit helps to maintain Cylinder wall Integrity for sealing.
* 400/440 main caps are identical "outside" dimension, just the 400 is "thicker", due to the smaller hole drilled in it ?
Again, not much,
But,
Sad but true with stuff made outa Detroit "wonder metal' Cast Iron, more mass is better.
Finishes the case for Grinding the 440 Crank Mains DOWN to 400 size and keep the thicker main caps !

I like the 400 Blocks better period.(IMO)
Stronger Mains
Stronger Webs
Stronger Cylinders

If you don't wanna spend the Money to have the 440 Crank Counterweights "Machined", get out yer Angle Grinder, takes about 2-2 1/2 Hrs,
then a Mild Clrc in the Block, easy-peazy if yer handy.
Anything in a 451 under 700 hp I do 'em this way.
100_13981.jpg


100_13991.jpg
 
Lighter Rotating/Reciprocating Assembly makes more Power, Period !
Torque OR Horsepower, just "Free", less parasitic resistence to Inertia.
 
The 400 has smaller mains. Less rotational friction. Plus with a higher piston pin piston, how ya think that 3.75 stroke fits, it has a shorter piston and skirt. The bore to stroke ratio is better than a 440. But since you already have the 440 why not pick up a 4.15 crank kit from 440 source for 2 k or less and build a 499 or 500 depending on bore. There's no replacement for displacement. Ag least on naturally aspirated motors. DD
 
I'd use what you have. Less machine work= less cost. The 440 already has a 3.75 stroke and if you already have one you don't have to bother locating a 400 block. I have three 440s in my garage now so thats what I use. Spend your money on some decent heads like INDY EZs or maybe the new Edelbrock RPM Extreme. The Stealth heads from 440 Sorce are imported (probly Chinese) and the regular RPM heads are not much different than factory iron heads.
 
thats a tuff call. i built a 431 before any affordable stroker kits were available. the crank work is expensive, the pistons were custom only at that time. i think it does make a big difference in the characteristics of the engine. the piston is almost half the wieght of a 440 piston and im onl 9 cubes short. the stock ly rods have a better chance of surviving with the light piston. the bearings will be happier. im just not sure its worth spending the cash to do a 451 dollar for dollar when you can go withthe 440 source 4.15 kit. either way, its going to cost a lot more than a stock type rebuild of either a 440 or 400. if you arent hitting the track all the time, is it really worth the extra expense of a stroker? do you want to run power or manual steering? whats the budget? there are a lot of things to consider.
 
im going with a 512 stoker kit from 440source.. and swapping certain parts for other brands.. but 440 is a legend. you should build it
:headbang:
 
Challenger340 said:
NOT that it matters, just TRIVIA,
Most "Strength" issues got covered,
but,
a few things may have been missed in the 400/440 block strength discussions ?

* Although nominal Sonic Test Cylinder Wall dimensions are Identical from Lowdeck to Bigdeck, the SHORTER cylinder wall 400 gets the nod for greater Rigidity by having less unsupported length.
.700" ain't a huge deal, but every little bit helps to maintain Cylinder wall Integrity for sealing.
* 400/440 main caps are identical "outside" dimension, just the 400 is "thicker", due to the smaller hole drilled in it ?
Again, not much,
But,
Sad but true with stuff made outa Detroit "wonder metal' Cast Iron, more mass is better.
Finishes the case for Grinding the 440 Crank Mains DOWN to 400 size and keep the thicker main caps !

I like the 400 Blocks better period.(IMO)
Stronger Mains
Stronger Webs
Stronger Cylinders

If you don't wanna spend the Money to have the 440 Crank Counterweights "Machined", get out yer Angle Grinder, takes about 2-2 1/2 Hrs,
then a Mild Clrc in the Block, easy-peazy if yer handy.
Anything in a 451 under 700 hp I do 'em this way.
100_13981.jpg


100_13991.jpg
Click to expand...
Damn, that crank is sexy, lol!
 
demon1515 said:
OK i have read all the comments here and i just come to a conclusion,
Lets be real here,
If he build the 440 it will last for ever no mater what he trow at it remember guys this is no race car here and he don't need 900 HP.
All in all a well built & tuned 440 will give him 450+ HP in a budget with more torque to spare than a 451,
Size is not to significant to take it in consideration,
Weight, neither,
So why take the inconvenience on doing such an engine when you can have what you need in the 440?

Buddy if you are not building a serious race only machine, save the head etches and build your 440 you will be more than happy with your end results and even in the 650 hp range it will last for years to come, if done properly.
Click to expand...
x's 2
 
I incorrectly thought that a heavier reciprocating assembly would make more torque than a lighter reciprocating assembly.

i voted to build the 440 since that is what you have and it is just for the street.
 
I have a 451 it is awsome.just shy of 600 hp and very streetable you wont be sorry.
 
Thanks ya'll for all the great information....I too, am considering a 400 for my dart.... i have a couple 383's that i was seriously considering installing, but am convinced now that i will stroke the 74 400 that a friend wants to trade... i was worried about the work involved when installing a BB in my 318 dart, but have really been liking what i see about the 400..... thanks for the info
 
dwgibbs said:
Thanks ya'll for all the great information....I too, am considering a 400 for my dart.... i have a couple 383's that i was seriously considering installing, but am convinced now that i will stroke the 74 400 that a friend wants to trade... i was worried about the work involved when installing a BB in my 318 dart, but have really been liking what i see about the 400..... thanks for the info
Click to expand...


440 source has a kit to punch a 383 to 496 cubes. All the B.S. about "No replacement for Displacement" is Bologna!! Put a turbo on it and you will have all the torque you will EVER need with Reliability when tuned properly.

:eek:ops: I forgot this was a "Budget" build!:D
 
CUUDAK said:
440 source has a kit to punch a 383 to 496 cubes. All the B.S. about "No replacement for Displacement" is Bologna!! Put a turbo on it and you will have all the torque you will EVER need with Reliability when tuned properly.

:eek:ops: I forgot this was a "Budget" build!:D
Click to expand...

No...I say 451 w/ a BIG turbo!:blob: Ha,ha, ha...
 
In your case, i would go with the 440.
The stroker 400 combos listed are great, but for your intended use and the parts you already have, go with what you have now and if you want to go short deck B engine stroker later on, you have lots of good info here to fall back on.
Don't over think this.
 
65mopar440 said:
im going with a 512 stoker kit from 440source.. and swapping certain parts for other brands.. but 440 is a legend. you should build it
:headbang:
Click to expand...


I did the 500" stroker kit using a 400 block. It does fit better (inner fenderwell clearance) in an A-body for exhaust and A/C blower motors (sometimes the master cylinder, too). Exhaust is where you're going to chuck out some heavy dollars - you don't have many choices and they are all relatively within the same price range. This is assuming you don't buy a cheap set of $300 headers from Summit and beat them into place (although, you technically could).

The TTI/Tri-Y setup has been my favorites for the A-body builds. They drop right into place with the motor locked down and you don't have to remove the steering column to get them in (I didn't).
 
there are pretty good benefits to the 451 over the 440, i wouldnt call it just as good. it isnt only an 11 cu in gain.
 
72ScampTramp said:
Which do you choose and why? Going into an A body. I have a 440 now that needs rebuilt. I have new pistons and rings for it gaskets, bearings intake and carbs. But everytime I see a 451 i feel like I just got to have one so what would you choose?
Click to expand...

I know this post is a year old but an RB block and Indy heads has served me well for 5 years. Best time so far is 10.084@ 135.21.

2011-07-04_17-47-24_864.jpg
 
The more I learn about big blocks, the more I respect the stock stroke 400. If you get compression up, it is like a big bore 340. Huge bore, short stroke screamer in a compact big block package. Since KB makes a nice piston to do that, it can really be done on a pretty tight budget. I gotta buddy with a gasser style Gremlin with a stock stroke 400 that runs consistant 9.40s and it's all motor. Production 452 iron heads. That has earned my respect.
 
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