TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
A stock magnum 5.9 with a cam in the 230s @050 and .530 lift, air gap, and a 750dp will rub right up against 400hp. Compression is 9.2:1 and will run on 87 octane if you know how to tune.
400 horsepower low compression 360
- Thread starter ike61
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Ooopss! Edit that, Trick Flow is actually what I meant... I like them a lot better than the AFR offerings.
Absolutely! And hat's why I chose the rather stout and soft on the bottom Herbert's solid cam. It's definitely going be a little soft on the bottom, but totally worth it when you stomp on it in first from a roll and it comes up on the cam and pipe. There's a lot of fun in a street car that goes a little soft when first shifted and then comes up into the power band and starts hauling the mail again in every gear. I meant to mention an air gap intake and an 1912 or 1913 AVS2 (800cfm Electric or Manual Choke) as part of the overall combination to help with the high-ish gearing, and a good starting point is around 16 to 18 degrees initial and close to 32 all in by 3000. Whenever I hear a random number like "four-hunnert," this is usually the kind of performance I'm expecting the O.P. is looking for.
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Why is everyone so damn cheap and wants to run on piss gas. How many miles do you put on these hot rods. 1,000 miles 2500 miles a year? Let's say 1,000 miles. $3.00 dollars per gal. 87 or $4.00 per gal. 93 I'll try with some basic numbers 15 mpg, 67 gallons so $67.00! give me a break. 2500 miles $170.00 a year. Now let's see what some real power might cost you, 10.5 -11.5 compression at $15.00 a gallon race gas so let us add about 2 gallons leaded race gas to the mix. So now we have added lead to unleaded and up goes the octane and we added some 112 to the mix. So maybe 97-98 octane. 16 x 4 + 30 - 8 = 86.00 for 18 gallons. So this adds up to less than $120.00 per 1,000 miles driven if you were using 87 octane and about $52.00 if you were already using 93. Now try your exact same combo but go from 8.5 to 11 to 1 and you will think you just bought a whole new car. Lots of other equations can go into this but you get the idea.
I run Vixen on 90 non ethanol. It's normally around 3.50 or so a gallon. It just doesn't add up to that much of a difference in the long run and it's SO much better.
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
Non-ethanol isn't available around this area... As far as higher octane? In this area there are two stations, great, if you stay in this area, but I drive my stuff, not just around town, next Saturday we'll put around 200 miles on up in the hills, no race fuel to be found anywhere up there.... So, build an engine that can't leave town? That ain't happening... We plan our builds to run on the crap we can actually buy....
Next weekends maps... Doesn't include the drive to the starting point or from finish point to home...
1510 E F St to Mel’s Diner
Mel’s Diner to Murphys
Murphys to 1510 E F St
I don't run non ethanol for the octane. I run it because it runs so much better. The ethanol gas will actually support more compression because of the qualities of alcohol, but it makes tuning sometimes hit and miss. Non ethanol is so much more consistent and that's why I run it. Those look like some nice cruises. We cruise into Gray and then into Milledgeville on highway 22 from Gray. Go to BOjangles for a biscuit, cruise around Milledgeville for a bit and then back home on highway 49. All in all I'd guess about 100 miles or a little more. It's especially nice this time of year.
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
I know why you choose non-ethanol, just pointing out it's not available in some areas... Wish I could buy it... I build my engines to run on 89 octane cause that's what we can buy... BTW those "cruises" are actually one cruise, broken up into three sections...
I cannot believe it's not available everywhere. It's just stupid. Ethanol gas is one of the biggest frauds on American people. I'd name another but then I'd be gettin political and I don't want to do that.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
I put 1000 miles on my D100 in 3 weekends.
autoxcuda
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Same here.
My time is valuable too, so I’m not driving and extra 40 mins round trip to find above 89 octane.
Just build a stroker with 9.5:1 and get the same added (or more) torque and HP through displacement with 89 octane. Less expensive one time cost than the race gas and my time for as much as I drive.
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ir3333
Well-Known Member
...15 mpg? It hasn't been mentioned but 400 plus hp is going to require 3.91 gears or it will be lazy at lo rpm.
now he's down to 10 (?) mpg and it takes 6 or 7 gallons to go 30 miles one way to cruz night every week and may not like buzzing 3.9's for regular driving.
A melling 340 replacement cam at 204/214 duration will probably get 20 mpg. But he will go through tires like crazy.
now he's down to 10 (?) mpg and it takes 6 or 7 gallons to go 30 miles one way to cruz night every week and may not like buzzing 3.9's for regular driving.
A melling 340 replacement cam at 204/214 duration will probably get 20 mpg. But he will go through tires like crazy.
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My 2c.
We're basically debating compression ratios and head flow.
You need bare minimum 200cfm to support 400 HP. So even the factory I heads will.do...
People typically reference 3% per point of compression. Therefore if we're comparing a 10:1 360 to a 8:1 360, you're gonna be down about 6%.
6% of 400hp is about 25 HP.
So essentially, you need to build a 425 HP 10:1 combo.
Now all these formulas assume very idealized conditions, so you wanna fluff some things with your combo. Meaning in real life you prob need to build a "450 HP" recipe to get your number.
What does that mean for an old school LA 360? It means the easiest path to get there is to invest in a set of heads to get your flow numbers up. And you need to get a cam/intake/headers that are well matched to get your power goal.
I'm not an expert at cam picking, but I do think an air gap intake, and a set of cheap headers will get you there.
Regarding the cam, you absolutely will need a pretty healthy stick. And you will need gears and a higher stall converter to make the combo happy. Whether you plan on going to the strip or not isn't even a factor there. If you plan on running highway gears and a catalog "3000 stall" converter, it's gonna suck. Of you invest in the right gears and converter it'll be a riot.
We're basically debating compression ratios and head flow.
You need bare minimum 200cfm to support 400 HP. So even the factory I heads will.do...
People typically reference 3% per point of compression. Therefore if we're comparing a 10:1 360 to a 8:1 360, you're gonna be down about 6%.
6% of 400hp is about 25 HP.
So essentially, you need to build a 425 HP 10:1 combo.
Now all these formulas assume very idealized conditions, so you wanna fluff some things with your combo. Meaning in real life you prob need to build a "450 HP" recipe to get your number.
What does that mean for an old school LA 360? It means the easiest path to get there is to invest in a set of heads to get your flow numbers up. And you need to get a cam/intake/headers that are well matched to get your power goal.
I'm not an expert at cam picking, but I do think an air gap intake, and a set of cheap headers will get you there.
Regarding the cam, you absolutely will need a pretty healthy stick. And you will need gears and a higher stall converter to make the combo happy. Whether you plan on going to the strip or not isn't even a factor there. If you plan on running highway gears and a catalog "3000 stall" converter, it's gonna suck. Of you invest in the right gears and converter it'll be a riot.
Yep, everything in your combo has to match. I say go with a smaller cam because you have the Dished Pistons. Look at 318willrun's video with his stock LA 360 bottom end. Check out his Cam spec's. and his choices. I believe they will make you the happiest. Not enough compression with your factory bottom end. Are you really going to want 4:10 gears, and only make power high in the Rev range. Better to make power down low, and not chase the high HP number. Instead chase Torque down low and fell it in the seat of your pants. My Opinion..
Four speed car, so no doubt that gearing would improve the situation drastically.
ir3333
Well-Known Member
He's not racing but for some that might race a bit small cams with 3.23 gears can be surprisingly quick in the 1'4 mile.
Call me a stickler, but the original question is 400 hp, so suggesting smaller cams and more pedestrian combos isn't getting it done.
I do like the 5.9 magnum swap approach. Get damn close with cam intake and exhaust only upgrades. Hell with the right cam you could probably eclipse 400.
I do like the 5.9 magnum swap approach. Get damn close with cam intake and exhaust only upgrades. Hell with the right cam you could probably eclipse 400.
If I was to build a street car engine today, ethanol friendly would be an important criteria. Good or bad, it's available at pretty much every gas pump in the country. If it will run reasonably well on E10 or E15, it will run on any pump gas available. Of course I could care less about maximum horsepower. I wouldn't be building a race car. The OP has a 400 horse goal and that's cool. That shouldn't be too hard with the right parts. The "low compression" part makes is a bit more tricky.
ir3333
Well-Known Member
Yup, it's my fault..i probably derailed that post when i asked how he would be using his car. I should have stuck
to his original question!
to his original question!
Right. I cannot disagree. We're goin the way of the dinosaurs. If I was to do a real hot street car today, as much as I hate it, I'd go E85.
We have E 85 at some places here, but not all. It might be tough to find if you go on a car cruise or out of town car show.
Yup. That right there is why I always try to err on the conservative side when giving advice and tell people to build low compression engines. They never listen.
I agree. Best to plan ahead before you leave on a trip with E-85 around here. Plus your range for a tank full will be shorter.
I have to admit, we have non ethanol everywhere here, but I have yet to see E85 anywhere.
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