408 stroker build sheets

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Johnny Mac

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
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Anyone want to give up a 408/410 parts list? something that has worked very well and put down some nice numbers.

i was running a crate 408 that made 380HP and 460 Ft lbs.... i always considered this to be fairly low, but my car being set up with a great converter it still ran 12.00's. the cam was very mild in my opinion only being the 484 lift purple cam. long story short it was a complete nightmare since day one, and it went back for a full refund....
so anyways...here's my plan as of now.

edelbrock aluminum heads (already better than the iron magnums my old one had)
rpm airgap intake.
408 forged rotating assy
http://www.summitracing.com/search/...onnecting-Rod-Beam-Style/I-beam/?Ns=Price|Asc
going with a roller rocker setup though.
one of these..750 double pumper that i may have to upgrade to an 800 kit.

and im open to cam suggestions. im currently looking at a comp hydraulic cam
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL20-229-4/
my converter can footbrake up to 3000, flashes at 4..those numbers look perfect for me. my last junker liked to shift at 5500...im hoping to get more RPM out of this one.
i've built engines before and since the drop in and go engine was a failure im doing it right this time...myself

anyways how much better can i look to do than the previous 380/470 with this setup. 450hp/500ft lbs too much to shoot for?
basically want a race engine that i can drive 6 miles to the track and back home, and still run in the 11's..if not the tens. CR around 10.0 for pump gas

let me know what you guys think!
 
IMO, I'd runa different cam, and a solid flat tappet. Is there an y particular reason you want the hydraulic? A couple notes... You will need to replace the valve springs with the ones you cam manufacturer specs. Also, IMO the heads should have the valve job checked at that time and corrected by a shop with high quality equipment and the intake ports gasket matched with your intake. Using the high-lift lobes will reuire you to run a high zink oil, or a quality additive with every oil change. Just accept this and make sure when it's assembled you check for lifter rotation and set the preload carefully. Lastly, get a larger carb. I like the 870 Avengers for these engines. The HP950 is another good choice.
 
380 horsepower must be at the wheels if youre runnin 12.00, that translates to about 450 hp at the crank which isn't bad for a 408. You need another 100 horsepower plus to do 10.90's youre looking at some major cash to make that happen
 
dustoff440 said:
380 horsepower must be at the wheels if youre runnin 12.00, that translates to about 450 hp at the crank which isn't bad for a 408. You need another 100 horsepower plus to do 10.90's youre looking at some major cash to make that happen
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I'm planning a 408 build, want 500-525hp/ftlbs, in hopes to run 11.40s, been told expect $5500 if not $6000 to get those numbers from a 408.
 
Donny said:
I'm planning a 408 build, want 500-525hp/ftlbs, in hopes to run 11.40s, been told expect $5500 if not $6000 to get those numbers from a 408.
Click to expand...

I think you need to plan on building it yourself to get those numbers at those prices , I just paid close to 8k to have one built by a reputable builder and I'll let you know next week how my numbers compare to what your talking about making but I should be there or a smidge better the basic carquest build he does for $7250 comes in at the bottom of those numbers and I added a roller cam and some extra porting on the heads
 
dustoff440 said:
380 horsepower must be at the wheels if youre runnin 12.00, that translates to about 450 hp at the crank which isn't bad for a 408. You need another 100 horsepower plus to do 10.90's youre looking at some major cash to make that happen
Click to expand...

the motor deff only made 380 at the CRANK...not the wheels...but i spent 900 on an ATI 8 inch converter. 3.91 gears, 26 inch tall tires. and ran 12.00-12.10 with Optimal conditions at the track...the converter is a magic maker...with a half worn out B&M converter the car only went 13.20's...with the EXACT same setup. all i did was get a good quality converter
 
moper said:
IMO, I'd runa different cam, and a solid flat tappet. Is there an y particular reason you want the hydraulic? A couple notes... You will need to replace the valve springs with the ones you cam manufacturer specs. Also, IMO the heads should have the valve job checked at that time and corrected by a shop with high quality equipment and the intake ports gasket matched with your intake. Using the high-lift lobes will reuire you to run a high zink oil, or a quality additive with every oil change. Just accept this and make sure when it's assembled you check for lifter rotation and set the preload carefully. Lastly, get a larger carb. I like the 870 Avengers for these engines. The HP950 is another good choice.
Click to expand...

i was going to go hydraulic b/c i dont have to mess with lash...what makes you say that comp isnt your choice? i like the rpm range. the edl aluminum heads come with HD valve springs, i'd have to see how much cam they were rated for. you recommend all that machine work for a brand new set of heads? valve jobs? im not concerned with throwing a $10 bottle of zinc additive in every oil change...only gets ran every summer and garaged, then changed before racing season...whats 10 bucks once a year if i dont have to check the rockers all the time.
 
eddy heads valve spring .570-.580 lift according to their specs.

about 125 lbs on seat...
 
I run a comp solid flat tappet XS-282S with a very similar setup to yours. Valve lash is no big issue, I adjusted them once while the engine was hot from break-in and with good rockers have not had any issues. Somewhere people became afraid of solid cams, but don't believe the tales of constant valve lashing. Just ain't so.
 
Oh, and btw, I would run the springs that comp recommends for the cam, not the eddy springs. And yes, have someone who knows what they're doing do a valve job on the eddy heads, even if they are new. It makes a difference. I am running comp beehive springs and am very happy with them, and they give you a lot more spring to rocker arm clearance.
 
Build the chassis first, the car will be quicker with a so so engine and a good chassis than it will be with a good engine and a so so chassis.
 
Guitar Jones said:
Build the chassis first, the car will be quicker with a so so engine and a good chassis than it will be with a good engine and a so so chassis.
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The car ran a 12.00 with only a 380 horse engine..lol... i think the chassis is fine. im frame tied and everything.
 
66dartman said:
Oh, and btw, I would run the springs that comp recommends for the cam, not the eddy springs. And yes, have someone who knows what they're doing do a valve job on the eddy heads, even if they are new. It makes a difference. I am running comp beehive springs and am very happy with them, and they give you a lot more spring to rocker arm clearance.
Click to expand...

again do we really think the head work and valve job are needed on a brand new set of heads... i mean they already have a 2.02 valves? i could see the port and polish producing a slight power/flow increase...but that seems like hundreds of dollars for minimal gains. i could be wrong...but its not like im running cast mid 80's smog heads that dont flow?
 
Well that shows it was good for a 380 horse engine, maybe better but that remains to be seen. lol Just saying, money spent on the chassis returns more than money spent on an engine. There are plenty of 550 horse stroker small blocks around here, just search a little or contact Brian at IMM Enginges, his user name is OU812. From what I've seen his prices are very reasonable for what you get and he has many satisfied customers here and on Moparts.
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
again do we really think the head work and valve job are needed on a brand new set of heads... i mean they already have a 2.02 valves? i could see the port and polish producing a slight power/flow increase...but that seems like hundreds of dollars for minimal gains. i could be wrong...but its not like im running cast mid 80's smog heads that dont flow?
Click to expand...

Oh man, that's why your stuff doesn't run what you think it should. All the power is made in the heads and intake system. An engine is an air pump and the more air you can pump through it the more power it will produce. Look at my sig, that's a stock 360 block, stock crank and stock rods with hypereutectic pistons. It's all junk except for the heads and intake.
 
your cam looks good though.
Advertised Duration 282/290, Lift .520/.540, 2500-6500.
i could make that work, i've just always had hydraulic cams but im open to new things i suppose if its that beneficial....but for $100 more...what do you gain? better low end from less valvetrain slop?
 
Guitar Jones said:
Oh man, that's why your stuff doesn't run what you think it should. All the power is made in the heads and intake system. An engine is an air pump and the more air you can pump through it the more power it will produce. Look at my sig, that's a stock 360 block, stock crank and stock rods with hypereutectic pistons. It's all junk except for the heads and intake.
Click to expand...

thats a bit of a stab isn't it?lol
im not a machinist...but i have built an engine or 2 in my day...i've gasket matched iron heads before. i guess what i was saying is that i was assuming the EDL heads would come with some work already done...guess they are just a carbon copy of a factory cast..only aluminum
 
70aarcuda said:
what is your mph ?
Click to expand...
it was 108-9 with the previous engine..it was a stump puller down low but it was done making power at 5500..it'd rev to 6, but slowed up quite a bit.
 
Solid cam is unaffected by spring pressure or oil pressure. Hydraulics are fine, but solids control the valve better, especially at higher rpm. Just my 2c
 
66dartman said:
Solid cam is unaffected by spring pressure or oil pressure. Hydraulics are fine, but solids control the valve better, especially at higher rpm. Just my 2c
Click to expand...

which would help me gain the RPM's im looking for..ok that does make sense. I've just never messed with them before.
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
thats a bit of a stab isn't it?lol
im not a machinist...but i have built an engine or 2 in my day...i've gasket matched iron heads before. i guess what i was saying is that i was assuming the EDL heads would come with some work already done...guess they are just a carbon copy of a factory cast..only aluminum
Click to expand...

All of the performance aluminum heads need work to perform to their potential. The thing that's great about these heads is their potential, not what they flow out of the box. Money spent on port work and a really good valve job is a better return on your dollar than anything else you can do to an engine.
 
i will keep that in mind. about the head work. thanks for the opinions and help
 
johnnymac2k6 said:
again do we really think the head work and valve job are needed on a brand new set of heads... i mean they already have a 2.02 valves? i could see the port and polish producing a slight power/flow increase...but that seems like hundreds of dollars for minimal gains. i could be wrong...but its not like im running cast mid 80's smog heads that dont flow?
Click to expand...

I'm in the middle of building a small block stroker - I have a stock set of Eddy heads I was going to put on there -

The short story is that the guides needed to be resized, the intake valves needed to be re-ground ( 4 were out of round by over 1.5 thou) and the exhaust were a little better.

THere was also shavings abound in the water passages.

Could I have bolted them on? Yes

will it run better now that I spent 150 bux to have them gone through? YES!
 
Cam needs to be custom for your CID. They say spending $1 on the heads is like spending $3 on the shortblock.

Put 360 parts on a 408 and you'll run 360 ETs.

Stock Eddies limit the potential of a 360, much less a 408. My 5.9 can use more than its current 750 carburetor.

Your shortblock was probably fine, just your intake setup needed work. If you're building a new one, start with a hydraulic roller block and get a roller cam.

My all steel, full interior, bench seat car runs 11.70s and 113 mph with a junkyard Durango shortblock, with iron heads.

Made 330 rwhp though..

A buddy's Ford stuff, but you'll get the idea.
Fox Mustang - 408 (351W stroker), ported Trick Flow heads, hydraulic roller camshaft, 950 HP, Super Victor intake, 1-3/4 header, 3" exhaust. He drives it on the Power Tour/Drag Week, runs 10.00 @ 120+.

Everybody likes to choke their strokers with parts intended for much smaller engines and ends up running numbers they could have gotten from a ring and bearing rebuild on a 340/360.

If you change up the motor a lot, you should also get the converter restalled.

My .02

Steve
 
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