408 stroker - cam up-grade advice

[Old Country]

Calling all non-novice motor-heads; I need some 'thoroughly thought-out advice'.

Eng specs:
408 Stroker - Eagle kit, forged crank, Eagle rods
Probe forged 10:5.1 pistons
Eddie RPM Perf heads - blue-printed and approx 3/4 ported
Probe 1.5 roller rockers
Eddie 6-pack manifold with Direct Connection Holley carbs (end carbs are mechanical)
Solid cam: 244 @ 50 / .539", 112 CL
Smith Bros Pushrods
ARP studs for mains & heads.
Kevco pan..
..etc...etc.. lots of cool yet standard stuff.. nothing too exotic.
Dyno tuned - came in at a slightly de-tuned 418 hp/436 tq at the tires (approx 535 hp / 560 tq)
Has roughly 1500 miles since new 2 yrs ago.

I've decided to switch out my 6-pack setup and try a 4 barrel... just because. I'm toss'n on a port-matched & slightly massaged Eddie Airgap & a Holley HP 750 street/mech sec, which has a good rep for a street setup (car is a 72 Duster 4 spd, 3.73 8 3/4)

The issues is this: I've a real nice custom solid cam carved by CamMotion Cams, simply a 'terrific cam' for this 408 6-pack setup, buuut it has that 112 CL, it may be 'perhaps' a bit soft on the dur/lift for this particular 408 AND this new 4 barrel setup... At least that's what has me bugged and why I'm here. ale:

I'm thinking of pulling the cam/lifters when I make the switch and trying this Lunati VooDoo solid stick:
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 251/259
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .566"/.586"
LSA/ICL: 110/106
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): .016"/.016"
RPM Range: 2800-7000

Obviously this new cam has a bit more of everything (perhaps not enough?), and it's 110 CL... which is great since I won't be managing 3 carbs...ie: don't need as big a vac signal. But I'm not exactly happy at all about the big emphasis on the exhaust side (259/.586"), since my heads breath pretty well. Now I know it's not a huge cam, but this is just a lil street blaster, no race car, so I'm trying to push just a bit closer to that 'race' line in the sand without losing the fun factor when driving the car. Anyone whose driven a drag small block with a big roller setup at +265 dur/+.650 lift/108 CL" knows what I mean... no fun at all on da-street.#-o

I could go one step bigger to this one, but I'm fearful I'd be crossing THAT line:
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 259/267
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .586/.606
LSA/ICL: 110/106
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): .016/.016
RPM Range: 3000-7200

So why am I here? Well.... I'm asking this group of wise & seasoned mopar motor-heads: "In your opinion, will the new cam make enough more power to be worth the cost & effort...?" OR "will I have to go even bigger to see any noticeable difference?" OR "am I being a bit foolish and the current cam will work just great with the 4 barrel..?"

I will check-in in a couple days to see if this manifests anything fruitful wisdom.
I thank you.:salut::

 

[Mad Dart]

Call Bullet Cams and have them grind you one. Tell them what you are looking for and they will fit the bill.

As far as too aggressive on the street. I believe a well tuned car with the correct converter/gear will be fine even with the biggest cam you posted. Yes on the street too.

Mine in my car is a Solid Roller [email protected] lift at the valve is .634... My compression is only 9:1 and I hit it with a 200 shot of NOS. I drive the car everywhere. Most every time I take it out I burn at least 1.5 Tanks of fuel.

I will however in the future be upping the compression to 13:1 ish, doing a cam swap and converting over to e85. Still mostly all on the street....... driving the wheels off of it. Bullet spec'd a cam real close to your biggest one except more lift in the .650 Range.

 

[clinteg]

Anyone whose driven a drag small block with a big roller setup at +265 dur/+.650 lift/108 CL" knows what I mean... no fun at all on da-street.#-o

Just curious what brought you to this conclusion or as to what makes a cam like that "no fun on the street"?

Do you know what the opening and closing events for the cams are? Some guys on here can plug in the numbers on a desktop dyno and compare different cams if you can give them enough info about your combo. This may give you an idea of what the differences will be.

 

[madscientist]

If Cam Motion ground you a cam that worked for you, why would you ever go back to an off the shelf cam?

I'm not a big Bullet cam guy, but I would either call Cam Motion and have them grind you something for the different combo, or call Bullet and let them do it.

Off the shelf cams are always a huge compromise.

 

[jefflock]

Call Mike at MRL and see what he recommends. I'm using a Lunita roller I purchased from him. Made over 500hp on the dyno with dished pistons and eddy heads. Ran 11.72 in a street dart thru the mufflers.

 

[FredS]

definitely go custom grind route. And do you have the flow sheet for the heads? I'd say more lift, and its still very streetable. Heck, you have a manual, even better for the street. But whats the intent for the change and the car's real purpose.

 

[EL5DEMON340]

Boy that was a lot of HP with that cam and 6 pack! I'm running the same carbs with the mopar intake. Would you happen to know what jets are in the carbs? Like others have said best to call the cam company's to get a consences. I'm not sure I would ditch the 6 pack for that setup especially with you wanting to up the cam so much I'm thinking victor intake with a holley hp 950.

 

[Old Country]

Holy Smokes! I asked for it, ha...

>> As for "Cam Events".... here's info from the cam card:
INTAKE
Duration @ 0.050” = 244.1 Crank degrees
Lift @ Rocker (1.5) = .539” Centerline = 107 degrees
Valve OPEN = 14.9 BTDC Valve CLOSES = 49.2 ABDC
Lift @ the lobe = .35874” Lobe area = 29.56” * degree

EXHAUST
Duration @ 0.050” = 244.3 Crank degrees
Lift @ Rocker (1.5) = .539” Centerline = 117 degrees
Valve OPEN = 59.2 BBDC Valve CLOSES = 5.1 ATDC
Lift @ the lobe = .35866” Lobe area = 29.57” * degree

>> As for the jet size:
Center = 65 End Carbs = 85

>> Why am I considering doing this?
Well I'm afraid I'm one of those fools who just likes to tinker. Back when I was building this - CamMotion required tons of info about the whole car/engine package, and this was the grind they produced. I have ZERO complaints and nothing but praise. Even the dyno guy was pretty shocked that a little 408 with a relic 6-pack popped out the numbers this did... BUT all agreed it was heads & that cam & the 112 CL.

I called CamMotion about my interest on installing a 4 barrel and was concerned the cam design might hold back some real fun factor. They did not agree, and voiced the engine would like the 4 barrel, and the cam was plenty for the street (in their opinion). They did confess they'd like to see what it would do (same specs) at 110 CL or even 108... but we left it at that. That was 6 months ago.... now winter is coming, I'm in rainy Washington state, and I've nothing to do, ha, ha... :violent1:

I already have the intake & carb..... had them for over a year. Ugh... yea, maybe I should just simmer the idea, and be dang'd happy with what I have, "like we all have". Actually - The car truly is really a nice package, pulls hard, big smiles, big sound, and I've still things I'm tinkering with on it, never stops. I use to drag race. and my butt-o-meter tells me she's a good mid 11 car as is... why mess with that? Answer: I just thought it'd be fun to explore a new cam when I swap the induction setup... but "I've no real need or reason to do any of that"... yea... think I'll just leave her be. Besides momma wants that new kitchen to be done by spring, and she's none-to-happy I was talking like this anyway, ha... better keep the war-dept happy.rayer:

Thanks your comments & opinions guys. FABO to the rescue! Old Country ~

> AND: How bout those Republicans! Let's see if they can do anything worth getting so many votes (hope so!).

 

[EL5DEMON340]

i got about the same cam 244/252- 520/540 lift 110cl. only a 360, ported j's 11.25cr. my 6 pack seems stronger than a torker II and a holley strip dom with a holley 750 with annular boosters. i only run 64c 75end for jets, i will get a AF meter this winter LOL

 

[Johnny Mac]

definitely go custom grind route. And do you have the flow sheet for the heads? I'd say more lift, and its still very streetable. Heck, you have a manual, even better for the street. But whats the intent for the change and the car's real purpose.

Agree times a million. Flow numbers will go worlds for a custom grind. Look up Chris straub. Of straub technologies. He custom ground me a bullit cam for my 408. His predictions were spot on with my actual dyno results. He predicted 605 horsepower. It made 608. Needless to say im a customer for life.

 

[flyfish]

If Cam Motion ground you a cam that worked for you, why would you ever go back to an off the shelf cam?

I'm not a big Bullet cam guy, but I would either call Cam Motion and have them grind you something for the different combo, or call Bullet and let them do it.

Off the shelf cams are always a huge compromise.

No necessarily. Although I agree that with enough info, AND purchased from a reputable cam company like Bullet, a custom cam would be ideal...but I don't think it is a HUGE compromise.

Case and point, my car has an off the shelf street roller in it from Comp cams (XR286R). It is not very big in comparison to most solid rollers, my compression is not high (set up for pump gas), and my carb is "too small" according to most folks, yet my car can run 10.5's through the exhaust @ 125 mph....and drive to and from the track because it is not only street legal, but street-able.

My point is, off the shelf cams are not massive compromises that are going to make your car severely under perform...but the WRONG cam (weather it is custom or off the shelf) will make the car under perform. Just my opinion.