440... Carb or Fuel Injection?

-
1BAD72

1BAD72

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
89
Reaction score
41
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Take cost out of the equation. Do you go with a proper 4 barrel or fuel injection (like Fi Tech or Holley Sniper) for a 440 Duster street cruiser/occasional racer. It has Eddie aluminum heads, Performer intake, TTI headers, 8 3/4 SureGrip, 323 gears, 727 with B&M kit. Please explain why you picked one over the other. Thanks...
 
1BAD72 said:
Take cost out of the equation. Do you go with a proper 4 barrel or fuel injection (like Fi Tech or Holley Sniper) for a 440 Duster street cruiser/occasional racer. It has Eddie aluminum heads, Performer intake, TTI headers, 8 3/4 SureGrip, 323 gears, 727 with B&M kit. Please explain why you picked one over the other. Thanks...
Click to expand...

If you are going to shell out $1200 for a throttle body injection system, whey not spend $400 more and get a Pro-Flo 4, which is a full multi-point EFI system with intake, distributor, throttle body, harness and programmer?

The other area not to avoid not spending a few extra bucks is to get a high quality torque converter to match your combo from a reputable expert shop instead of an off the shelf unit.
 
I don't intend to ever put another carb on anything I drive. The Sniper setup solves a bunch of problems that carbs have plus it has a built in data logger. The data logger pays for itself very quickly by letting you solve all sorts of tuning issues.
 
jbc426 said:
If you are going to shell out $1200 for a throttle body injection system, whey not spend $400 more and get a Pro-Flo 4, which is a full multi-point EFI system with intake, distributor, throttle body, harness and programmer?
Click to expand...

If considering the Sniper 600hp ($1k), its not $400, its $800, using your phone or tablet. Plus, your limited to the Super Victor manifold, which may not be the best option for a given application. Going with the Sniper or FiTech one can choose to add timing control later and not shell out the $$ now.
 
I have the Super Sniper on my car and I'm really enjoying the tuning process. I'm learning a lot about how my engine works and how the fuel injection system works. I'm also in the process of changing my gauges around in the car since I really don't need any gauges anymore. All of the information is on the screen. The next thing that I'll be doing is switching over to the complete Hyperspark ignition setup. Holley has a new Mopar distributor out that works with the Sniper kit and they have their own ignition box that plugs into the Sniper.
 
I went with Sniper. For several reasons. Cold start, self learn, able to make adjustments on the fly, built in rev limiter and no carb boiling issues. Parts are over counter such as tps, temp sender, iac etc. It has outputs for electric fans etc plus if you have a/c it will bump idle with a/c on. I messed with carbs (Holley) over the years. Used to be you could walk in a store and get parts, not so much now at least in my area. Now on a side note I was running a performer rpm, had some cylinders showing leaner so I went with a torker 2. Seems to have evened out more. I’ve got 1500 miles on the current oil change and the oil looks like it did when I put it in. I have actually tuned AFR’s and timing at my cruise range, last I checked was after a 120 mile trip on interstate at about 90 degrees running 65-70 mph. Averaged 12.9 mpg. Running 440 with aluminum heads 237 243 @.050 .566 .577 solid roller cam. Water temp ran at 200. 3:54 gears with 28” tire. Now I’m not saying a carb can’t do this because with time it could. The other thing is the prices, a good carb (Holley type mech secondaries double pump) with adjustable bleeds etc is going to run in the close to $600 plus range new. Sniper base system was $995 and I went with tanks inc FI set up it was around $600 if I remember correct. Plus I’m getting older and just want to be able to enjoy the ride.Those are my personal views and experiences with it. Some will not agree and that’s ok, to each their own. I purchased thru Pace Performance and got the FABO member discount which also helped and they’re able to help with issues. Your car do it how you want.
 
If you're building a classic Mopar muscle car, buy a carb. If you're building a wanna be BMW, then go EFI.
 
Fisher said:
If you're building a classic Mopar muscle car, buy a carb. If you're building a wanna be BMW, then go EFI.
Click to expand...
Congrats on being "that guy" I was waiting with anticipation when someone would pop in with that- Well Done!

d7d.jpg
 
Fisher said:
If you're building a classic Mopar muscle car, buy a carb. If you're building a wanna be BMW, then go EFI.
Click to expand...
I hardly think my 68 fastback will ever be anything close to a bmw, but it "WILL" outrun it .
 
Fisher said:
If you're building a classic Mopar muscle car, buy a carb. If you're building a wanna be BMW, then go EFI.
Click to expand...

Let's talk about the reality of old tech versus new tech. I have both versions of old Mopars. A '68 A-Body with an EFI'd 408 AND a GM 200R4 overdrive with a high stall lock-up converter, and a '70 E-Body with a 493" 3 2bbl and a Passon 5 speed. The '68 is so much less of a finicky biatch to drive and enjoy as a daily driver compared to the manual trans carb'd motor, but the carb'd motor seems to dish out full power in such a viscerally satisfying way. The car would be significantly quicker with a 200R4 in it too. That's the best automatic transmission I've ever driven. GM parts in a Mopar, sacrilege I know.

The carbs are very temperature sensitive, and run best if the motor is started, run for 10-15 minutes and then spiritedly driven; but they don't tolerate heat soak well if shut down for 5-10 minutes and restarted. It takes them a while to get cooled down and happy again. I don't even have a heat crossover in my ported Indy EZ's sitting under a Shaker hood.

Take that and add it to the "get's old quick in traffic" manual transmission, and the benefits of EFI and a great automatic transmission with a high quality, high stall torque converter that also locks up, and I am on the edge of swapping both items into my '70. Why? the car would be so much easier to enjoy on drives. Especially living in San Jose.

I've had both kinds of girlfriends too. The high maintenance ones were fun to drive while they lasted, but that gets old too. I prefer the easy going ones in the long run.
 
Performance cars with carbs are becoming super difficult to drive anymore due to the changes in pump gas. Since 99% of the cars on the road now are EFI, the gas formulation is optimized for them. With solutions like the Sniper out there I just don't see any reason to use a carb anymore on a performance engine. The data logging capability alone is worth the conversion. Then add in stuff like a digital dash setup, integrated GPS, computer controlled timing and you can make a big improvement in how a classic Mopar runs.
 
Some people are so Amish-like; they approve of this aftermarket product, but not that one. Its okay to move from bias ply tires to radials. Its okay to replace exhaust manifolds with headers. Its okay to change the stock intake manifold to aluminum, but don't use EFI. WTF. People have been modifying these cars since they were new. Now since they are "classics" there is some morality on what a person should or should not do with their car? You like driving a stock relic, drive it. You like tinkering and modifying, do it. Lots of keyboard commandos that, if they saw your car in person they'd never have the nuts to criticize your build to your face.
 
I am considering EFI for my Barracuda. Cost is the first issue as I'd add AC before FI. My GTS will likely always run a carb, but I may change my mind on that, too.

As far as BMWs, yeah I got one of those, too. It's about as quick as my 340, yet gets nearly twice the highway fuel mileage. Oh, and while I will never know for sure, I am certain that the top speed of the 330Ci is much higher than the GTS, too. Not too shabby for a 3.0 liter slant six...
 
Sound? What does an EFI sound like with a 68 style unsilenced air cleaner? Do you lose that glorious AVS moan when the "secondaries" open, or is it similar?
 
Well a DP and anything else with an air valve of some sort do have differences. QJ/ Thermoquad can sound quite different than an AFV or an AVS, and a DP of some sort sounds differnt than them. The air valve / flapper makes a difference.
 
oldkimmer said:
With carbs getting so expensive it’s getting to be almost a no brainer to fi. Kim
Click to expand...

Unless you have a nice stash of good vintage carbs...I've got a pair of 4640s AVS carbs. I should be able to make a very good one out of the two.

Then again, there's value in those carbs to the resto crowd...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top