66 Barracuda Firm feel P/S replacement

[Syleng1]

OK,

After what seemed like forever I received my steering gear from Firm Feel yesterday and cleaned it from the oil coating it was bathing in and primed and painted it (last night) and I am going to install today. Hopefully the side to side table tennis driving will be gone.

I am very excited to see what Dennis and Matt sold me is the cure for the "ole Mopar steering blues."

The pictures are of the box fresh from the UPS truck. I chose to not have them paint it or powder coat it. I had them use their core so I could just do a 1 day swap. The extra $175.00 is a lot but if this work well, I am sending mine back to be rebuilt for the Demon. This way I save one trip of freight ($50.00) and save time and can still drive the Demon if I want to. So far the whole experience has been pain less. Keep you posted.
Joe

 

[Syleng1]

Here is the box painted Duplicolor "Cast Iron Grey" from their Hi Temp engine paints (Rattle can from Napa) after the proper cleaning and primer.

 

[RedFish]

3 bolts hold the gearbox to the K. Those nuts welded in the K have been an issue especially in the early A. Make sure the mating surfaces are clean and flat. Work from bolt to bolt rather than torque 1 at a time. Use locktite. Good luck

 

[amx364]

On my side to side Mopar issue the answer was the lower bushing was broken in the K frame(Stub shaft). This was not found until I had given up and just started removing the front end till I found it. The new gearbox installed did not fix my problem.

Now that said, I am a firm believer in rebuilding the steering boxes to new specs or better.

 

[Syleng1]

I got to the car and started to remove the box

 

[Syleng1]

Disconnecting the fittings and the steering shaft on the 66 with a solid shaft steering column. I had to loosen the two column support bracket strap under the dash up to move the column up and put the column up with the steering box coupler. If you just pull the column up from inside the car the couple can (and will) come apart. My couple was stuck so I used a tie rod pickle fork to slide over the shaft and give a quick pressure away from the box to move the coupler off the shaft. Now the hoses; Remember when you undue the pressure hose look for cracks, swelling and twisted metal tubing. Mine was fine but my return hose was leaking from 48 years of use. I replaced the return with 3/8" power steering line from the local parts store. On the /6 it only required 12". I bought 18" just in case and it was like $7.00.

S/N: The trick to getting the mechanical fitting off the box is to use an 11/16 wrench to hold the JIC adapter and the 5/8 wrench to turn off the hose nut. If you don't... the adapter just turns and will twist the tubing.

 

[KitCarlson]

The steering coupler may need work. There are kits on ebay.

 

[Syleng1]

Next set is to remove the 1 5/16" pitman arm retainer nut and lock washer. Mine came right off... like scary loose. I am not sure of the torque but it was easy and makes me want loc-tite on the trip back. I have the factory service manual and will refer back to torque settings when reassembly FSM states pitman arm is 120FTlbs of torque for reassembly. Using a pitman arm puller from an auto parts store is a very inexpensive part. This one cost me like $20.00. but makes life SO much easier.

 

[Syleng1]

Next step is on the /6 model is remove the 3@ 5/8" head bolts that hold the box to the K-frame. These are a 7/16" - 20 thread I believe and then the box simply comes out from the top. I had to take the nut off the lower drivers side motor mount and jack the engine up in order to get to the top steering box bolt with a socket wrench. I tried to use just a box/ open end wrench and it was pain full. The factory service manual states the V-8 model the box is lowered from the bottom. Glad I own a /6 today.

Once the box is removed and on the bench, Place it side by side. Make sure it is the same. With the Firm Feel box I had to swap over the adapter fitting and the return line fitting. Pretty easy, just wash the fitting down with brake cleaner BEFORE you remove the 2@ 7/16" head bolts. The bolt heads are very short and a wrench can slip off and round if debris are keeping it from seating properly. Also washing off the adapters before will keep dirt and debris from getting into the spring inside the return adapter housing. Firm Feel sends new sealing washer and o-rings with the box.

 

[jos51700]

I love my FF steering box, but like others said, it won't matter much if there are other K-frame issues.
Be thorough, and replace anything that's suspect.

 

[RedFish]

I'm puzzled and questioning my memory again. Please double check the 1&5/16 you stated on the pitman arm nut against the nut on the box you plan to install.
I'll bet a quarter it's smaller.
I don't recall what year the box couplings changed either. There is difference in earlier ones. The common rebuild kit found on ebay isn't correct for those earlier couplings.

 

[chryslerfat]

I knew the newer gears had 3/8 return line but did not know it changed as early as 1966 my 1966 with 273 still has a 1/2 hose for return.

 

[AussiePlymouths]

Great thread. thanks for all the tips and lotsa pics.

 

[BillGrissom]

Thanks. We love photos. I did this on my 1965 V-8. Much easier on a slant. Imagine how fun it was trying to work the 2 wrenches on the pressure hose fitting under the exhaust manifold. It was a bear just getting the gear in and out. I had to lift the engine up 2" for room. I removed and installed the gear 3 times in my 1969 slant decades ago, while trying to do a seal refresh (gave up and bought a rebuilt one). My 65 gear rebuild went better (see post). One mounting bolt on my 69 was real hard to back out. I found the factory had installed the wrong size, like 1/2" instead of 7/16".

My Pitmann nut was hard to get off, I think because the big lock washer has sharp edges that grab and scour the metal. If you buy a Pitmann puller, insure you get the larger size one.

The issue with the steering coupler kits is that the gasket retainer doesn't quite fit. Indeed, I tore the orange gasket trying to force mine on. Since then, I read that one should re-use the original metal retainer.

In my 1965, I switched to the later Federal pump (to fit alum w.p.), so my hoses changed and I had to change both fittings on my steering gear. Later ones use an O-ring fitting instead of AN for pressure and a different size return hose (can't remember if bigger or smaller). I installed a cooler in the return hose, bolted to lower frame rail, from an 80's Dodge truck w/ Magnum engine.

 

[Syleng1]

Thanks for the "addaboy!"

There is a reason the 1 5/16" seems wrong please read on:

After running a tap thru the threads on the 3 bolts for the mounting and a die over the bolts and cleaning the K-frame mounting surface and the box is in, It looks like this unfortunately for me I measure the output shaft wrong and some where along the line the box was swapped out with a newer 1 1/4" output sector shaft. The new unit was the 1 1/8" sector shaft that I was very adamant with Mark at Firm Feel I had (oops!). Tough to measure when in the car. So I raced home and did a lot of fact finding; The pitman arm for the small sector shaft is available online (I chose Ebay) for the right one (fingers crossed, "I hope" the right one) Cardone who makes the rebuilt boxes thru a lot of Auto parts stores offers a great booklet on line and if you preform the proper due diligence the 1 1/8" sector takes a Moog P/N K-7072 (Moog is either no longer available or expensive ) The Cardone P/n# that is still available and the one I bought is #276582-PA pitman arm (Cardone p/n is still available!), the 1 1/4" sector takes a P/N# 276584-PA pitman arm or a still available K-7074 from Moog. The parts people can verify that part number. Both are 32 spline sectors its just one slides over the other with slop if you have my set up which even though it turns with the wheel, the nut bottoms out before the pitman arm is tight. Also using Loc-tite on the mounting bolts and this pitman arm nut is HIGHLY advised!.

Any who, I have to wait for part to arrive to test drive.
S/N: The hose was 3/8 inside diameter but like 3/4" outside diameter on my 66' maybe it was also changed when the steering gear was changed. I also while the box was out cleaned the pump and filled it with fresh power steering fluid and ran the engine (pump connect to the box) and bleed the system by turning the wheel from all the way left to all the way right and back very slowly. Keep checking the fluid level as bubbles will fill the pump and you can either over fill or under fill and wipe out the pump. I will keep you posted on the pitman arm and everything else that follows. Stay tuned!

 

[RedFish]

Pitman arms for small sector shafts are available but... Those load to the center link in opposite direction. Until whatever year model these changed, both power and manual steering gears had small sector shafts.
If your early A has power steering gear with large sector shaft, a previous owner had to install later model pitman arm, center link, and idler arm, along with it.
To be honest, I didn't even know these parts would work with the early A-body Kmember.
About the only thing that never changed was the 3 bolt pattern where they steering gear mounts and the tie rods.

 

[jhdeval]

I'm puzzled and questioning my memory again. Please double check the 1&5/16 you stated on the pitman arm nut against the nut on the box you plan to install.
I'll bet a quarter it's smaller.
I don't recall what year the box couplings changed either. There is difference in earlier ones. The common rebuild kit found on ebay isn't correct for those earlier couplings.

You are correct on the rebuild kit not being completely correct you have to reuse the spring clip and may have to reuse the "weights" (t-bar pieces that the spring clip pushes on). I used the later kit and all I had to reuse was the spring clip everything else went perfect.

 

[Syleng1]

Yea! the new pitman arm arrived and it was exactly as someone in a post above stated... the joint is backwards to the larger splined unit. This is what happened when you own a 48 year old car and it was owned before ( before I was born in 1970!) Other people had their hands in it. Now I have owned this car since 1989 and only put about 3,000 miles on it in all those years. She sat for about 20 years and only since a bump on the head had I got back into this one. So back to the Firm feel install.

The pitman arm was different and now I need to know if I was stuck with the wrong steering link or what? It had the right idler arm for a 66 and only the pitman arm was upside down. Take a look at the picture that is kinda fuzzy. The installer of the larger sector steering box that came out machined the link to accept the pitman arm from the other side and made a bushing to take up the slop. What looks like a washer is a coned sleeve. pretty darn slick. I am sorry I did not picture that. So all I did was reverse the sleeve into the other way and it went right back together. The final picture is of the new pitman arm after greasing.

So the last question is "What do you think?"
I test drove the car on a short run for fuel (about 3 miles) and the car drives like a column bearing is seized. It is a far cry from the single finger steering I was used too. As I brought it back to the yard I was working in, I did like the tightness of the wheel. I actually found myself driving faster and taking corners harder. When I got back I let all cool and re checked all fasteners and cotter pins and fluid level.

Mental note: when you remove the motor mount to lift the engine to gain access to the boxes 3rd bolt... make sure you tighten it. After about 50 miles I had to adjust the torsion bars height as one side had settled in a bit more than the other. Back story is I installed brand new torsion bars (A-body big block ones from Chrysler and super stock springs from Chrysler about 2 weeks ago) and keep having to help them find their proper height. Anyhow I was running the car back and forth after an adjustment and the motor mount bolt let go from being loose and the fan tore open the radiator that was rebuilt a year before almost to the day for the same thing. So I had to remove the radiator and was able to soldier the split. Last year the split was so bad it was a complete rebuild at $800.00. So at the end of the day, I love the Firm Feel rebuild. Level 2 is tight for a factory car with the school bus steering wheel but I recommend it completely.

Thanks for reading!
Joe

 

[BillGrissom]

It sounds like you have the correct parts now, and if the reversed cone fits tight, it should work fine. It sounds like they drilled a straight hole thru the center-link's normally tapered hole. I wonder if that cone was something they found (an after-market repair bushing), or they machined a part to fit, with the correct taper angle for the Pitmann arm's ball-joint rod. You could probably get a center-link for a slant almost free, since so many here change to a V-8 one (~1" more drop).

I think the center-link should sit level, i.e. the height at the Pitmann arm should match that at the idler arm. I am surprised that with the later Pitmann arm it wound up matching your early idler. Since you suspect the steering is binding, support the car on the frame rails and turn the steering by hand, looking for any binding. Sounds like the new steering gear is just tight. You don't want it too tight or it can wear. You can adjust the sector shaft for easy turning w/ minimal play. For the high price, Firm Feel should have done that.

Not sure why you had to remove the motor mount to get the steering box in. I didn't have to, nor jack the engine, when I changed the gear in my 69 Dart decades ago, but early A's are narrower. I was even a dumF kid with minimal tools then. An $800 radiator should be made of gold, IMHO. Sounds like that made somebody's boat payment.

 

[Syleng1]

It sounds like you have the correct parts now, and if the reversed cone fits tight, it should work fine. It sounds like they drilled a straight hole thru the center-link's normally tapered hole. I wonder if that cone was something they found (an after-market repair bushing), or they machined a part to fit, with the correct taper angle for the Pitmann arm's ball-joint rod. You could probably get a center-link for a slant almost free, since so many here change to a V-8 one (~1" more drop).

I think the center-link should sit level, i.e. the height at the Pitmann arm should match that at the idler arm. I am surprised that with the later Pitmann arm it wound up matching your early idler. Since you suspect the steering is binding, support the car on the frame rails and turn the steering by hand, looking for any binding. Sounds like the new steering gear is just tight. You don't want it too tight or it can wear. You can adjust the sector shaft for easy turning w/ minimal play. For the high price, Firm Feel should have done that.

Not sure why you had to remove the motor mount to get the steering box in. I didn't have to, nor jack the engine, when I changed the gear in my 69 Dart decades ago, but early A's are narrower. I was even a dumF kid with minimal tools then. An $800 radiator should be made of gold, IMHO. Sounds like that made somebody's boat payment.

That's a funny post. Yup! it was Drilled straight thru and a coned bushing very well could had been a aftermarket piece but since it was done I will assume between 1966 and 1989... anything goes. The box is very tight "like" a steering column bushing is seized but mine is perfect (rebuilt last summer with all new bearings and an extra one at the end. I did check the turning with wheels off the ground and it was slightly better with no weight. I will assume it is a tight box. As for Firm Feel adjustments before it leaves the factory ... I am not sure how Dennis or the crew check them? Anyone know them to ask??

The more I drive it the better she gets. It feels like a new Avenger from Dodge. My Mrs. has one (2013) and it is like a rocket on rails. The Barracuda feels a lot like that just a bit wind noise. No slop and instant turn. I am glad I went this route and not an auto parts store rebuild.

Next project - Re-chrome the armrest bases with the water bourn kit I got in and put on new arm rest pads (I still need to order)