a 2x4 setup question

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rod7515

rod7515

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I built a 408 with a pretty healthy cam .575 int and exh lift and Im going to be running an edelbrock 2x4 setup. The engine builder estimates it to be around 500-525 hp. I bought the setup a few years ago and it had Holley 600 carbs that came with it. I rebuilt both of them but havent used it yet. Still sitting on the shelf.
First I know they probably wont be as effective as a single carb but I want them because the intake and carbs look old school and an eye catcher.
Heres my question on them.
First does the engine perform differently if they are mounted back to back vs sideways? does it make a difference in setting them up with the exception of linkage? I think Id like to mount them sideways because it looks easier to make adjustments. Does anyone have recommendations for linkage? Also how do I make sure that 2 600 holleys arent too much? For those that have run a setup similar did you use Holleys or Edelbrocks? Just looking for suggestions and advice from your past experiences.
Thanks Rod
 
Unless this is a tunnel ram with a fairly large plenum, you bet your *** it will matter how they are mounted. The older "dual quad" 180 designs COULD be poor for fuel distribution depending on the situation. After all, the "traditional" 2 -4's had the primaries which were active CLEAR to the front of the engine, as far away from the last cylinders as possible. Always seemed to me it would have made more sense to have mounted them front carb backwards, rear carb frontwards, to keep the primaries centered on the center of the engine.
 
Yes this is a tunnel ram. I believe the model is a TR5. Here is a pic of what I have. I should have included this on my original post but here it is now:
DSCN0315.JPG


When I bought this it was part of a big box of stuff that had been sitting for many years not used. The person I got it from couldnt tell me if it was ever on a running car since he had it and the gaskets were so dried and warped that I doubt if he ever used it. I had to make the gaskets for between the top and bottom because they are no longer available. I keep looking for a single 4bbl top to go on it but havent located one yet. As i look at this setup it just seens that it would be easier to make adjustments if the carbs were mounted sideways. Bowls would be easier to remove as well as to change jets or valves. But im not sure if it would make a difference on how it would run or distribute fuel. Thought I would ask some that may have used this or something similar. Ive seen Holleys mounted sideways but I dont think I have ever seen an edelbrock sideways setup. Ive personally never ran an edelbrock so are they easier or more difficult to set up?
Thanks Rod
 
Jetting is the big thing most people overlook, and why 2x4 setups tend to get a bad name.
The carbs need to be jetted approximately 20% leaner when used as a pair, vs. solo
 
The Holleys mounted sideways would be easier to dismantle for tuning for sure. You don't see Cater/Edelbrocks mounted sideways because of there width. They go inline. The Edelbrocks are easier to make adjustments to tune via the rods. The Holley can be tuned more precise.

IMO, I do believe you can run the 600 Holleys. Even though I do not know much about the build. And the rest of the drive train set up or its useage. I have seen a number of street bound tunnel ram cars run a pair of 450 Holleys. Or 500 Edelbrocks. Of course these smaller carbs should be providing the best throttle response.

On the other end of the spectrum my old friend had a seriesly lightened stroked small block '67 Chevy Malibu @ 408 cubes. His induction was a pair of 750 double pump Holleys on a Holley Pro Dominator.

The moral of the story?

Tuning is everything.
And IMO, more so than a well thought out & balanced combo. Because a well thought out combo with a crap carb set up will get beat by anything that runs right.
(As long as the combo isn't completely screwed up!)
 
Like you, I have always wanted to run that on my 367 just for the cool-factor.
Also sorta like you, I have never been willing to invest the time into it when the single 4 runs so well.

Can the carbs and inject it. Put 4 small TBs on it out the sides with 8" stacks, yahoo!
Or two bigger TBs one on each of the flat planes; then get the ducting all set up; that would look sick.................as in good-sick.

Ok never mind
 
AJ/FormS said:
Can the carbs and inject it. Put 4 small TBs on it out the sides with 8" stacks, yahoo!
Or two bigger TBs one on each of the flat planes; then get the ducting all set up
Click to expand...

Skipping the cool pipe dream, the idea is solid. How about a pair of FiTech's or Holley's F.I. set up?
 
I could love that too!
But I just think it would be so cool to see the TBs where they aren't normally found; like upside down or sideways,lol
Kinda like a rotary valve snowmobile.
Like; ........ (pause)....... the carbs are where? ............(long pause) ...........down there?.....................(longer pause)......How can that work ?
 
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Hey AJ, I just got a good eye full of a (IIRC) 1916 REO. Carb is at the driverside, bottom at the frame rail. Intake 1-1/2 straight up.
Gas tank filler under passenger seat.
Starter button on the floor next to the gear shifter.
What a blast listening to the owner answer questions. Talk about things you would never expect!!
 
A quick picture and then back to topic!!!
IMG_0763.JPG
 
rumblefish360 said:
Hey AJ, I just got a good eye full of a (IIRC) 1916 REO. Carb is at the driverside, bottom at the frame rail. Intake 1-1/2 straight up.
Gas tank filler under passenger seat.
Starter button on the floor next to the gear shifter.
What a blast listening to the owner answer questions. Talk about things you would never expect!!
Click to expand...
I've seen tractors like that, except not sitting on the gas tank,lol
 
Some up high, some some down low.
Expand the picture.

@rod7517 , any thoughts to the fuel injection?
 
No fuel injection in my future! I am more interested in the old nostigic look. I am still thinking about mounting the holleys sideways but I would like to see some pics of the linkage that others have done with theirs. Im thinking Im not going to be able to the original throttle cable so I might as well make everything at once.
Thanks Rod
 
rod7515 said:
No fuel injection in my future! I am more interested in the old nostigic look. I am still thinking about mounting the holleys sideways but I would like to see some pics of the linkage that others have done with theirs. Im thinking Im not going to be able to the original throttle cable so I might as well make everything at once.
Thanks Rod
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I have that very same manifold sitting under the bench out in the shop. If it were my deal, I'd call Summit and order the SB Chevrolet top for it. It reduces plenum volume to a reasonable size, it mounts the carb sideways and will make more power and have much better drive ability.

I know it fits, as I've done it before. That's a pretty damn good base with a fair top. Switch out the top.

In fact I just remembered that Speedway motors has that top cheaper than Summit.
 
Yellow rose, thanks for that info. You wouldn't happen to have a part # would you. How long has it be since you saw them for sale? I have an order I was going to be calling into summit. Or I can call speedway if it saves $$$$.
Thanks, Rod
 
rod7515 said:
Yellow rose, thanks for that info. You wouldn't happen to have a part # would you. How long has it be since you saw them for sale? I have an order I was going to be calling into summit. Or I can call speedway if it saves $$$$.
Thanks, Rod
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The part number of the top is 7032 and it looks like what rumble posted except it has the holes to mount the carbs in line and sideways.

It's only been a couple of months since I looked at the tops. And, I asked edelbrock on the phone if that top would fit the Chrysler base. Of course, he said nope. I said why not? He says it's a Chevy top and you have a mopar base. I said I won't tell my base its getting a Chevy top, and I certainly won't tell the Chevy top it's going on a mopar.

Just in case I was nuts, I ordered up the gasket that goes between the base and top of the Chevy manifold. It's the exact same bolt pattern and post layout as the mopar, so they will bolt up and fornicate very well together.

Let us know how it goes.
 
Yr, I'm pretty sure, but have not actually tried, that intake has the Holley sideways.

I think that Edelbrock tech is a new guy with a lack of history knowledge.
 
The EdElbrock 7032 looks to be for the newer style tunnelram and I don't think it would fit. The one rumble fish posted is the one I would need. I'll have to keep my eyes open for that top. I need to dig mine out and check it because I thought I could mount them either way but could be wrong. I'll check it out one night this week and let you know.
Thanks Rod
 
rod7515 said:
The EdElbrock 7032 looks to be for the newer style tunnelram and I don't think it would fit. The one rumble fish posted is the one I would need. I'll have to keep my eyes open for that top. I need to dig mine out and check it because I thought I could mount them either way but could be wrong. I'll check it out one night this week and let you know.
Thanks Rod
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I just googled the 7032 and sure enough it shows the picture of a different top than what edelbrock shows on their web site.

The manifold and top I'm looking at on edelbrocks web site is number 7110 for the top and base. Number 7067 is the base and the top is 7032. The gasket is 6999.

If you want to see the actual picture of the top I see as 7032 you go to the edelbrock web site, click on catalog, click on intake manifolds, then SBC and then scroll down and click on the link that takes you to multiple carb manifolds. You will see the Street tunnel ram with the top that will bolt right on to your base.

I don't know why summit shows a different top for the part number 7032. But that's the top you want and I've seen it for less than $140.00.
 
I just ordered the top, an intake set and a set of 10 manifold top/base gaskets from summit. They matched pricing and I have always had good luck with summit if something wasnt right that I just feel much better using them. Should arrive sometime in September since it has to come direct from Edelbrock. I went down last night and looked at my intake, and the carbs would only mount front to back and I want the sideways mounting for easier adjustments. It wont be until next year that I put this intake on but at least I will have it and hopefully all the parts to get it working.
A special thanks to Yellow rose and rumblefish360 for all the information you guys threw out there. I had never even thought about buying a top separate. Im sure next year when its time to put it on the car I will be asking many more detailed questions about setting up the 2 carbs.
Thanks again, Rod
 
rod7515 said:
I just ordered the top, an intake set and a set of 10 manifold top/base gaskets from summit. They matched pricing and I have always had good luck with summit if something wasnt right that I just feel much better using them. Should arrive sometime in September since it has to come direct from Edelbrock. I went down last night and looked at my intake, and the carbs would only mount front to back and I want the sideways mounting for easier adjustments. It wont be until next year that I put this intake on but at least I will have it and hopefully all the parts to get it working.
A special thanks to Yellow rose and rumblefish360 for all the information you guys threw out there. I had never even thought about buying a top separate. Im sure next year when its time to put it on the car I will be asking many more detailed questions about setting up the 2 carbs.
Thanks again, Rod
Click to expand...


Hot damn I'm excited. The wife is getting worn out from all this excitement!!!!

Very cool. Post some pics when you can and keep us updated. That's just cool as hell. Glad it worked out.

I don't mind Summit. They are good to work with. I just found it on Speedway first.

Nice job.
 
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