A Body Shorty Stainless Headers

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As said again im still sorry, I know ive already said it once, but ill say it again anyways. After reading posts and seeing what everyone wants, I think as said before, a shorty mild steel will be the most cost effective header to build for the masses. Mild steel will bring the price down to what anyone can afford, stainless steel is just so damn expensive of a material. I will make these fit a 4 speed with a stock Z bar, and power steering, the power booster on power brakes should fit easily as well. The reason I built me personal headers the way I did, is that as you can see the left side has lots of room without a Z bar, and without power steering. As a racer im really into making good power, even though its just a street car, and yes, I think your correct, 99% of the people wont care if its not an equeal lenth header. My personal problem, is that when I design and build something I want it to be the best it can be. I want each customer to but the part and look at it and say, these are awesome, there equal length, easy to install, the welds are beautiful, and the price is good.
Ive got about 4 sets of headers to build before I leave for Kansas then Indy for the NHRA races. When I get home, ill try and get started on mocking up a set of headers as said, to fit a 4 speed, power steering, and power brakes.

So now im hoping you guys can tell me if im on the correct track. These will be mocked up on my 76' Dart Lite with Power Steering, A 4 Speed, and Power Brakes. Id appreciate any advice on what you guys think will make everyone happy.


Thanks
Mark Lelchook
Performance Welding
Racing Headers
 
You would not believe how many posts there are on here by new members asking "who makes a header that is easy to install?" Most of them end up running their old manifolds because of the fitment issues. I definatly think that there is a market for a shorty header. Like someone else has stated about the billions of 5.0 shorties out there. I am currently running hooker comp headers and I am not looking forward to pulling the motor again some day.
 
Man those are beauiful peices of art.

I have a 360 crate 904 I plan to install into my 68 Dart later this year. It currently has power steering with console automatic. What kind of changes would you have to make just to clear the power steering and still make them easy to install from the top? I will probably run manual discs. If you are talking $700-800 that would be awesome for stainless headers and I would be down with that. I could sell the TTI's that I currently have and avoid the headaches of installing those.

I'm not sure if there are differneces in the 67-72 years and the 73-76 years as far as header design and clearances. That is one point to look into as well I guess.

Comments? Thanks for the reply.

Here is another thing that may help too. If the collectors are positioned so that the tti exhaust system is a direct bolt-on. Or even the Pypes (nice pieces and nice price) brand exhaust system since they are stainless as well. Just a thought.

One more thing. You get a few of these sent out here to Socal. People seeing them at the big car shows will definetely bring orders after they see them installed. I'd promote you for sure if I'm happy and stoked about having them on my car. 25 orders could come quicker than you think.

Dave
 
perfweld said:
My personal problem, is that when I design and build something I want it to be the best it can be. I want each customer to but the part and look at it and say, these are awesome, there equal length, easy to install, the welds are beautiful, and the price is good.
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I can totally dig that, and they are awesome looking headers.

The reason for my suggestion was just that (sadly) I see a lot fewer Mopars on the track than I do on the street/show scene, and there are constant requests here and elsewhere about people looking for an easy to install header as an alternative to the overpriced 340 manifolds.

From my experience with the Mustangs, I believe on a mild build there isn't any difference in power between shorties and full length headers anyways, and most small block A-body builds are pretty mild.

BBK pretty much built their entire company on those shorty Mustang headers and 5.0s come with headers from the factory!

The market seems to be wide open. From what people say, the easiest set of headers to install in an A body are actually the Schumacher mid-length big block deals. LOL

perfweld said:
Id appreciate any advice on what you guys think will make everyone happy.
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I think single piece flange, and ball and socket collectors are awesome for an easy install and low maintenance life. The ball and socket isn't a deal breaker, but it sure is nice not having to fool with collector gaskets.

I don't think the price of stainless would affect the demand too much. Ford uses some grade of stainless for their 5.0 shorties that gets a haze of brown on it, but doesn't rot like mild steel.

My money is where my mouth is!

My car doesn't have a Z-bar, power brakes or power steering, but if you really build these unequal length shorties, I'll buy a set, just because sooner or later my car will see the street only, and I'll be tired of dragging these hookers on everything.

So keep me on your mailing list for when you need those 25 names!

stevemoberley@gmail.com

Good Luck in Indy.

Steve
 
Thanks for the support guys, much appreciated. My original idea was to make a header a cross between the 5.0 shorty header and the old max wedge factory manifolds. I think I acomplished it with the header I built for my GTS. It will be much harder to make as nice of a peice for a car with the factory Z bar, it plain is right in the way of everything. The power steering and the brake booster isnt so bad, its the damn Z bar. I might have to use a flat style collector to make it work. Now that youve all spoken up, I do see promise, and your right, there were so many shorty mustang headers sold it was unbelievable. I personally dont like headers on a street car, they hang too low, so that was the reason to do this project. A body mopars are also by far one of the hardest cars to make a good set of headers for, and to install, there are harder, I could make a list of them, but A bodys are bad. My A body race headers believe it or not, install easily, there a puzzle of parts, but you dont have to move the engine to get them in, my BB A body Race Headers are the same way.

I would like to make the left side easy to install, but with the Z bar, power steering, and the booster in the way, it might not be as easy as I hope. I want to make to to where the exhaust levels out so that it will be easy to fit to any exhaust system. I dont want the customer to have to make the bend towards the back of the car, I would rather make that part of the header so its tucked up nicely and high with good ground clearance. The ball and socket idea is very good, and as you said , eliminates gaskets, which I dont personally like due to possible leaks. I think a 1 5/8" header will work well, good for up to about 400 hp, more than most street cars would have. When the prototypes are all said and done, ill look into other materials, as you said, there are other cheaper stainless steels out there, I just didnt think about. that, im used to using 304 and 321 SS.

Thanks Again Guys

Mark Lelchook
Performance Welding
Racing Headers
 
I also had a set of headers for a Mustang that was different than anything currently offered for the A bodies.

It was a Bassani set of full length step tubes. However, the tubes were separate from the collectors. You put the tubes on one at a time, and then smacked the collectors on. It made the install go very fast, and no need to jack the engine or anything. Obviously, the flange at the head was not one piece.
 
I think my header design idea covered ALL the bases, but never got this much attention.

I am still in the process of finding myself a 73/74 Duster or Dart Sport V8 with Power Brakes/Steering that I will do mock up and tooling on...And I plan on offering a option of either mild steel or T304 Stainless.

Your headers look great perfweld, but I would not pay over $1000 for a set even if they were pure titanium.

If I cannot find a car here pretty soon, I may never get my design off the drawing board.
 
I'm glad these didn't go the way of the dinosaur. I too had a Mustang 5.0 and yes, shorty unequal lengths were a breeze to install. Equal lengths have a mean look all there own (ever see a 5 cyl 2.3 DOHC Audi header?). I say 1-5/8 steel tube, shorty equal length, ball and socket collector and chrome/nickle plate it, $550 out the door or $400 bare (for the Ceramic snobs) = $$$ in your pocket and would last the life of most street cars. This of course would be perfect if you had a PO for 200 sets!8)
 
Prine said:
I think my header design idea covered ALL the bases, but never got this much attention.

I am still in the process of finding myself a 73/74 Duster or Dart Sport V8 with Power Brakes/Steering that I will do mock up and tooling on...And I plan on offering a option of either mild steel or T304 Stainless.

Your headers look great perfweld, but I would not pay over $1000 for a set even if they were pure titanium.

If I cannot find a car here pretty soon, I may never get my design off the drawing board.
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Prine I think that if someone were to come up with something that actually works and performs halfway decent they would have enough work to keep them busy for a very long time.
 
I think your spot on Dano, mild steel, somewhat equal length shorty header with a ball socket collector. I would like to see what the options are as far as material though. If I can make them out of a cheaper grade Stainless Steel for not much of a price increase, id rather go that route. I now wish I had a little extra time to do some mocking up, but sadly ive got some customer jobs that have to get done.

Mark Lelchook
Performance Welding
Racing Headers
 
Don't quote me on it but I think lower grades of SS are prone to crack and/or look "rusty" with age and heat cycling. My advice is do what is making you money, I've meet many entrepreneurs that have viable business and try to have a product. It is a commitment, an investment of time and money, marketing it key. I hope you do this venture, just stay away from China, I have dealt with that dark path, the end result is they ignore spec's and shoot for the bottom line and make the part "look" the part.
 
There are a few companies I use that will pre bend for me at a good cost, one is here in Sacramento and the other is up in Washington. My buddy has a huge Lazer cutting shop in Oregon, and the formed collectors will be made in So Cal. We will do all the welding here, just sub out all the other stuff. Ive been in buisness just over 10 years, and about 99 % of my work is custom, and always for serious race cars, I dont do much production work like this. I did this same thing with a Dragster Header, and your right its a huge investment, as you know, I wont move till I see good interest. But after thinking about it, and talking to you guys, im sure its needed, and will be a big seller. I appreciate your advice Dano, and everyones that has spoken up, its what will get this header off the ground, with no interest nothing would have ever happened.

Mark Lelchook
Performance Welding
Racing Headers
 
Don't forget keeping them clear of the longer fast ratio steering arms and you'll save me from having to build my own.
 
I got to met perfweld (Mark Lelchook)in person yesterday. He is a very genuine person and is extremely interested in providing a quality product for us. I for one am extremely interested and am planning on purchasing his product.
 
It was nice meeting you too Jeff, wish we had time to stay and talk and look at your cars, but as you know, we needed to get home. Ill get going on the prototypes soon, but work keeps piling up, so I have no time set yet to do so. Ill get that convertor off to you in a few days, im trying to drain the fluid out of it before shipping. I got the seats in the GTS already, now all I need is a green steering wheel.

Thanks
Mark Lelchook
Performance Welding
Racing Headers
 
any updates on this?

Just pulled my tranny to change the convertor and swore at the headers a few times.
 
stainless shorties,standard steering,4-speed,ball socket. I'm interested,real interested.When,where and how much?
 
Ever consider building something similar to Spit Fire's and rattling Harold Johnson's cage? The early A guys, like myself, would love it!
Bob
 
looks like you have plenty of room for power steering just by moving that one tube, the front tube then you cover a lot more ground. guys could always run a hydraulic throwout bearing. i dont know how many would be willing, just to run a set of headers though. nice work.
 
Those equal length stainless look great. If you do decide to make something that fits with the 4-speed I would also be interested.
 
I sent him a private message and he said he won't be building any as he'd need enough of a group buy to make it economical and no ones come up with cash so it's nice to dream anyways.
 
71Duster said:
I sent him a private message and he said he won't be building any as he'd need enough of a group buy to make it economical and no ones come up with cash so it's nice to dream anyways.
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Yeah money is tight, thats why my car has the factory 273 manifolds on the
318 I built.
 
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