Ok guys, I have decided to take my worn out 273 2bbl and 3 spd auto out and replace with a crate engine? and a manual trans. The rear would need to be replaced with a posi. This would be a street machine driven a lot during he summer. Ideas anyone? I an an auto painter not a motor head. Most likely I will have the work done but want to purchase most of the items myself. Has anybody installed a 5spd behind a 340/360? The interior of this car is done so I don't want to be cutting trans tunnels and the like. I would like a true hp rating between 300 and 325. JEFF
Advice needed on hi-po warm up for 65 cuda
- Thread starter 65cuduh
- Start date
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What idea's are you wondering about?
A 5spd Tremac?
the rear size should be a 8-1/4 or 8-3/4. The 8-1/4 being much much cheaper and has no problem handling the HP sought.
A 5spd Tremac?
the rear size should be a 8-1/4 or 8-3/4. The 8-1/4 being much much cheaper and has no problem handling the HP sought.
Yes the tremec 5 spd is what I had in mind only if I don't have to cut up the trans tunnel. Have you done one? Also looking for advice on headers (brand) remote oil filters.... all those little items that you run into during the exchange. Thanks for the advice on the rear size. Got one for sale?
There really are no little things. Everything from your radiater to your drive shaft length and maybe even size of the fuel line has importance.
In many cases the surroundings are the downfall of a new engine.
Run it too hot or too lean and shorten its life. Best plan is forget the term "little things" and address "everything"
It will seem like a never ending money pit and alot of aftermarket perfomance stuff like headers add insult to injury. A stock 360 will be a major improvement over the 273 without all those extras.
Point to ponder... how often do you see 30+ yr old headers, edelbrock this, holley that, on ebay ?
In many cases the surroundings are the downfall of a new engine.
Run it too hot or too lean and shorten its life. Best plan is forget the term "little things" and address "everything"
It will seem like a never ending money pit and alot of aftermarket perfomance stuff like headers add insult to injury. A stock 360 will be a major improvement over the 273 without all those extras.
Point to ponder... how often do you see 30+ yr old headers, edelbrock this, holley that, on ebay ?
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
A member here has done a 5 speed installation on a 66 Valiant, which is basically the same as your car. He has a thread about it. I don.t think it's gonna' happen without floor mods. Here's the link.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=18384
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=18384
I guess what I really am looking for is advice from members who have done this type of warm up and tell me exactly what engine, trans, rear they used, where they bought it etc. I paint cars I don't even know what size rear is stock in my car. Thats how much help I need. Jeff
You are looking at a huge undertaking! If you went to the link suggested by 64 cuda it will give you SOME idea of what to expect. If you have deep pockets, procede. If not, find a nice rebuilt 318 or have one built, install and leave well enough alone.
If you go to a manual transmission you will have to cut out a large section of your tranny hump and replace it with a manual parts car donor or buy a fiberglass hump from Brewer's Transmissions. That means you'll have to buy new carpet, which is nothing compared to the other bits you'll need for a conversion to a stock 833 tranny, like pedal box, shifter and linkage, clutch assy., bellhousing, driveshaft and 8.75 sure grip rear (if you're going for 300+ hp), shifter and linkage boots and the 63-65 shifter boot cover piece.
The Kiesler 5 speed and assorted stuff will cost you well over $1,500 before any work has begun and you'll have to do severe cutting of the tunnel and fabrication work.
Find someone who has ACTUALLY DONE THE CONVERSION before trusting the work to a mechanic that hasn't "been there and done that". It is daunting. Matter of fact, if I had it to do all over again I would have bought a 4 speed parts car before spending the last year or so collecting parts for a 340 auto to manual conversion.
If you go to a manual transmission you will have to cut out a large section of your tranny hump and replace it with a manual parts car donor or buy a fiberglass hump from Brewer's Transmissions. That means you'll have to buy new carpet, which is nothing compared to the other bits you'll need for a conversion to a stock 833 tranny, like pedal box, shifter and linkage, clutch assy., bellhousing, driveshaft and 8.75 sure grip rear (if you're going for 300+ hp), shifter and linkage boots and the 63-65 shifter boot cover piece.
The Kiesler 5 speed and assorted stuff will cost you well over $1,500 before any work has begun and you'll have to do severe cutting of the tunnel and fabrication work.
Find someone who has ACTUALLY DONE THE CONVERSION before trusting the work to a mechanic that hasn't "been there and done that". It is daunting. Matter of fact, if I had it to do all over again I would have bought a 4 speed parts car before spending the last year or so collecting parts for a 340 auto to manual conversion.
pettybludart
Well-Known Member
That,s what I did,(donar car,73 318 auto,Swinger)I got everything for front disc. conv.,also a 318 with 904 tranny.I found a 8 3/4 housing,and bought all to complete(.489 c.section,moser axels,green bearings)also b.plates,shoes and hardware.My 66 Dart has a 6cyl.auto and the 73 d.shaft is a perfect fit(have to swap rear u-joint)360 is in the future.I know I haven,t mentioned any motor swap parts,but I,ve done all the other susp. and drive components first.A couple pics.Hope they help for modern muscle conv.?
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
I would stay with the automatic...a TF904 is fine. If you feel the need to shift it yourself, put a manual valve body in it with a shift kit.
Go to the nearest boneyard and find a 85 new yorker (or similar older car) and yank the engine and trans. Rebuild both with decent parts. The Edelbrock Performer kit (cam, lifters, carb, intake) will put you where you wanna be without breaking the bank. Headers are not required for your power level. The stock 318 manifolds will work, but if you want headers you can go with Hooker part #5208HKR or Hedman #78070 (shorty's) or #85661. I would talk to the companies you deal with on the phone to be sure of what you are getting or have your mech do it.
Go to the nearest boneyard and find a 85 new yorker (or similar older car) and yank the engine and trans. Rebuild both with decent parts. The Edelbrock Performer kit (cam, lifters, carb, intake) will put you where you wanna be without breaking the bank. Headers are not required for your power level. The stock 318 manifolds will work, but if you want headers you can go with Hooker part #5208HKR or Hedman #78070 (shorty's) or #85661. I would talk to the companies you deal with on the phone to be sure of what you are getting or have your mech do it.
Optik
Well-Known Member
the Hedman shortie headers will NOT fit the early A engine bay without serious hammer work. I found this out the hard way. we had the motor in and out 11 times clearancing the header and getting everything to fit (i.e. huge dent) and the collectors dump out straight into the steering linkage. We made it work somehow but its not pretty and barely functional, but it will have to do until i can figure something else out. i'm thinking of buiilding some custom ones. or maybe just some zoomies straight up through the hood truck-pulling style. ;)
-Tim
-Tim
Well, that's great that is what you would do, but how does that help the posters questions that follow. He decided to make a move to a manual and a bigger engine. I LOL at this.
Your so not helping.
Helping would be providing info he's looking for in the build. By the way, the Edel. Performer cams are not worth much more than a paprer weight.
Your Header listing are given without thought.
Know something before saying something.
66dartgt
Well-Known Member
Drop a rebuilt 318 in with 300-325 hp - use well chosen internals with a medium to warm cam, 4bbl, 9:1 compression and headers and you are there. for headers consider a set of spitfires, they are easy to install but will require fabbing for the down pipes to duals. Get a mid 70's 904 and rebuild that and use it. easy reliable performance combo.
Unless you want a lot of fabbing dont do the 5 spd conversion. I'd pass on a stock 4 spd set up as well, unless the complete, (and I mean complete) set up drops out of the sky into your lap. Piecing together all the stuff for a manual conversion will take more money and time than you think, plus you still have to cut up the floor in the car as well even for the stock set up, there is a special floor hump that hangs on the side of the dog house.
Unless you want a lot of fabbing dont do the 5 spd conversion. I'd pass on a stock 4 spd set up as well, unless the complete, (and I mean complete) set up drops out of the sky into your lap. Piecing together all the stuff for a manual conversion will take more money and time than you think, plus you still have to cut up the floor in the car as well even for the stock set up, there is a special floor hump that hangs on the side of the dog house.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Did you wake up on the wrong side of something? WTF?
The headers I listed are on the makers website for his app, I did tell him to contact them direct and make sure of fitment, right?
You don't like the Performer cam, intake package? That's fine...he asked for around 300-325 horse. That set-up will put the 318 there.
Maybe you could try some Xanax, you seem a little stressed and real full of yourself. Re-read your post and tell me what part of it is even close to a conversation instead of an attack.
He said he does not want to cut the tunnel....factory four speed is not a simple bolt-in.
I just re-read some of the other posts on this thread and noticed that others offered similar advice...is the problem you have with what I wrote or me?
get over it, I answered the question with my opinion, I'm pretty sure that is the general reason for being on a forum.
Thanks for being a real swell guy.:bootysha:
What he wrote, not me, he knows something about the product you recomend and kow nothing about.
This is rich!
He wants to do a create engine, get glasses alice.
AND, if he wants to go that way, fine, I'd call it a waste of money unless you HAVE TO HAVE the Edelbrock named intake or want aluminum for the lighter weight. Heres why;
A rebuilt 360 that has cheaper pistons and 42 more cubes of torque and HP that both peaks earlier in the RPM range can deliver this power in near dead stock 4bbl trim.
Cast iron T-Q intakes are super cheap.
Edel. performers are how much out of Summit? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-2176&autoview=sku
Lets stay at summit for a bit.
Edel. Performer cam; http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-2177&autoview=sku
duration, 270/@ .050 204 w/.420 lift on a 110.
Now look at this Crower cam; http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRO-31240&autoview=sku
duration, 260/267 - @ .050 214/218 (Larger than the performer with a quicker valve ride, that equals better performance.)
lift, .455/.474 on a 112.
Notice the duration numbers and the quicker rising valve with more lift? This is a stronger cam and it's still smaller than a stock 340 or 360 HP cam.
Everybody else, move along, nothing to see here, we now go back to our thread, as intended, in progress. Enjoy!!!
fishman
Well-Known Member
Chill Man! you did this to me they need to tak you off here. Are you drinking
Perhaps your right. My apollogies.
I don't drink, thanks.
I don't drink, thanks.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the backup Fishman. I PM'd him and, hopefully, we understand each other a little better now.
He is right about one thing, the performer cam I suggested is not the one I used in a friends build last year. There is no way we got his car running 13.40's with that cam. It was an edelbrock cam that he got off ebay for $50 and put new lifters on. I never wrote down the numbers on it. It was advertised as a "Edelbrock Performer" when he bought it. I was not involved in his cam purchase, we just used what he bought and it worked out. I have to guess that the cam we used is no longer produced by Edelbrock or it is the Performer Plus.
The Crower cam rumblefish360 suggested is on target.
My suggestion for the 318 was based on cost and availability. The 360, being externally balanced, requires a bit more to swap in. The 340's are getting scarce and expensive and is really not needed for that power level. The 318 shares the crank with the 340 at 3.31" with a bore of 3.91" compared to the 340's 4.040". A set of stock 360 heads milled a bit work well on the 318 and thats what we used on the low buck 318. We didn't even upsize the valves or run adjustable rockers, just put it together and checked the valvetrain geomtry and lifter preload and, surprize, all was good. As others have pointed out, this has been a big problem for many due to variations in factory and aftermarket parts.
65cuduh, good luck with your buildup. It should be a very fun car to drive when you get it done.
He is right about one thing, the performer cam I suggested is not the one I used in a friends build last year. There is no way we got his car running 13.40's with that cam. It was an edelbrock cam that he got off ebay for $50 and put new lifters on. I never wrote down the numbers on it. It was advertised as a "Edelbrock Performer" when he bought it. I was not involved in his cam purchase, we just used what he bought and it worked out. I have to guess that the cam we used is no longer produced by Edelbrock or it is the Performer Plus.
The Crower cam rumblefish360 suggested is on target.
My suggestion for the 318 was based on cost and availability. The 360, being externally balanced, requires a bit more to swap in. The 340's are getting scarce and expensive and is really not needed for that power level. The 318 shares the crank with the 340 at 3.31" with a bore of 3.91" compared to the 340's 4.040". A set of stock 360 heads milled a bit work well on the 318 and thats what we used on the low buck 318. We didn't even upsize the valves or run adjustable rockers, just put it together and checked the valvetrain geomtry and lifter preload and, surprize, all was good. As others have pointed out, this has been a big problem for many due to variations in factory and aftermarket parts.
65cuduh, good luck with your buildup. It should be a very fun car to drive when you get it done.
Were good. No issues.
Now fishman on the other hand....... Keep playin around buddy, keep playin around. I was willing to drop and forget it all, but NO, you wanna come back and play, drop off insulting PM's and then leave without replies as to what bug crawled up your backside and died.
No problem, keep acting like a child throwing a fit.
OK, I got your number. Watch your set Pal.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Yup we're cool.
65cuduh, if you don't wanna cut the tunnel I don't think a manual will work for ya. I would suggest that you find someone who has a car with a auto trans and manual valve body and see if they will let you take it for a drive or at least take you for a ride in it. The really cool thing about a manual valve body is you are still shifting but you don't need to think about the clutch. They also shift very quick with minimal effort on your part.
Your choice of which size engine to start with is really up to you. The 318 will get you those numbers but will have to turn a little higher to do it. On the upside, the 318 loves to rev. That short stroke is great and durability even with stock internals is virtually bullet-proof at that power level. You should be able to make 325 without turning it past 6000, but it will turn higher. You need to put a lot of thought into the cam selection and make sure that all of your parts work well as a package. Bigger is not always better and can kill your low end torque.
If you do go with a 318, use milled 360 heads. They are cheap and they work well. They also allow you to use a better intake.
As far as the 360 goes, they are also great motors, I just really like the shorter stroke. I also prefer the internal balance to external.
There is a guy out in SoCal that specializes in Mopar engines and he is extremely good. He won't ream ya a new one and can probably build you a 318 and ship it to ya ready to go. I realize that he is accross the country from ya, but his advice is free and he has built motors that most of us only dream of. The engine that you are wanting is pretty basic but everything needs to work well together for it to last and perform the way it should.
Here is a link to his site: http://www.bobmazzoliniracing.com/
Click on the "Cars We Race" tab and notice how many of them are record setters, including Don Little's 3600+ pound 70 Hemi cuda.
You can call Bob at 951-787-8783. He's a super nice guy and really knows his stuff. He will have answers for your questions and he will not steer you wrong.
I will be talking with him when I get to this turbo 318 build, hopefully later this year.
I am really looking forward to this one. there is something that is far too cool about getting near stock-like fuel mileage and then, at the turn of a knob, having monster power under your foot. By the way, that is another little thing that is nice about the 318 when compared to the 360, better fuel mileage.
I hope this helps. Good luck,
Dave
<<<Bob's 68 SS Hemi Barracuda
65cuduh, if you don't wanna cut the tunnel I don't think a manual will work for ya. I would suggest that you find someone who has a car with a auto trans and manual valve body and see if they will let you take it for a drive or at least take you for a ride in it. The really cool thing about a manual valve body is you are still shifting but you don't need to think about the clutch. They also shift very quick with minimal effort on your part.
Your choice of which size engine to start with is really up to you. The 318 will get you those numbers but will have to turn a little higher to do it. On the upside, the 318 loves to rev. That short stroke is great and durability even with stock internals is virtually bullet-proof at that power level. You should be able to make 325 without turning it past 6000, but it will turn higher. You need to put a lot of thought into the cam selection and make sure that all of your parts work well as a package. Bigger is not always better and can kill your low end torque.
If you do go with a 318, use milled 360 heads. They are cheap and they work well. They also allow you to use a better intake.
As far as the 360 goes, they are also great motors, I just really like the shorter stroke. I also prefer the internal balance to external.
There is a guy out in SoCal that specializes in Mopar engines and he is extremely good. He won't ream ya a new one and can probably build you a 318 and ship it to ya ready to go. I realize that he is accross the country from ya, but his advice is free and he has built motors that most of us only dream of. The engine that you are wanting is pretty basic but everything needs to work well together for it to last and perform the way it should.
Here is a link to his site: http://www.bobmazzoliniracing.com/
Click on the "Cars We Race" tab and notice how many of them are record setters, including Don Little's 3600+ pound 70 Hemi cuda.
You can call Bob at 951-787-8783. He's a super nice guy and really knows his stuff. He will have answers for your questions and he will not steer you wrong.
I will be talking with him when I get to this turbo 318 build, hopefully later this year.
I am really looking forward to this one. there is something that is far too cool about getting near stock-like fuel mileage and then, at the turn of a knob, having monster power under your foot. By the way, that is another little thing that is nice about the 318 when compared to the 360, better fuel mileage.
I hope this helps. Good luck,
Dave
65 bearascuda
Well-Known Member
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im doing a 65 barracuda also! mine is for the strip tho!360 was my route,cuz by far the cheapest horse power(c.i.= horsepower).i lucked out and found a older crate motor that came out of someones unfinshed project with 904 off craigs list for 500.00.it is a older crate motor called a commando (1985-mid 90's) rated at 360 h.p. 360.mild cam updated heads and basically stock! and what iv discoverd that is that would be cheap even if u built ur own! issues ive had in this project have been motor mounts,headers,rearend! but have all my info.if u need it!
RedScampi
Well-Known Member
rumblefish360: Dude, you are a MODERATOR so moderate yourself. You should be ashamed of the posts you've put in this thread. It's stuff like this that brings forums down. Did I actually see a threat in that last post to Fishman? Do you know people go to jail for that kind of crap? I don't think anyone cares what excuses you have, your behavior is way out of line.
Red, your right. Then again, when you know the whole story, behind fishamn and myself, you'll be able to comment further.
If your going to bat for Fishman and if this is the threat you think I wrote;
If your going to bat for Fishman and if this is the threat you think I wrote;
You have mistaken a warning as a threat.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Score!:-D
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