Am I crazy for doing this on a 65 Barracuda ?

[Kemper]

There are clearly two schools of thought here. Nothing wrong with either one of them depending on the end goal. One is to restore a car as close as possible to original with sheet metal and as little filler as possible for oneself or to sell. The other one is for a guy to restore his own car the way he wants within his means to keep for his own enjoyment without misrepresenting it in a sale. Is one way better than the other? Of course, we all know welding in metal is better than fiberglass on anything except something that is already made out of fiberglass. The mere fact that this is being disclosed step by step with pictures certainly represents no misrepresentation of what Kemper is doing here. The car is being saved!

Thank you for an honest opinion. Twice now a person has accused me of trying to con someone by misrepresenting a car. That is something I would never do.

 

[Woody500]

There are clearly two schools of thought here. Nothing wrong with either one of them depending on the end goal. One is to restore a car as close as possible to original with sheet metal and as little filler as possible for oneself or to sell. The other one is for a guy to restore his own car the way he wants within his means to keep for his own enjoyment without misrepresenting it in a sale. Is one way better than the other? Of course, we all know welding in metal is better than fiberglass on anything except something that is already made out of fiberglass. The mere fact that this is being disclosed step by step with pictures certainly represents no misrepresentation of what Kemper is doing here. The car is being saved!

My thoughts exactly.
And 72bluNblu obviously didn't read or comprehend or ignored parts of the whole post, as OP had pointed out his goals were to make a driver out of what many might've considered a parts car, or otherwise let sit and deteriorate, as he has another car to restore.
And Kemper should be commended for this, as now, when it's drivable, he'll continue to repair & upgrade as needed to enjoy a vehicle and he can decide if he likes it enough to restore it fully in the future. And has also increased its' value due to its' drivability.
So it costs nothing to listen, but not every car needs full restoration to enjoy, nor can everyone afford or want one.
& someone else is correct about the uninitiated needing a welcoming place to learn to improve their skills, but many, now can only tear others down & don't support newbs.
And they know a lot about what people want to learn, but have no patience to teach.
Sorry the newbs are always asking the same annoying questions. Why not post a link to older threads to teach them, without the repetition you seem to abhor.

 

[Kemper]

I find it interesting that people will do many different things to a car mechnically to suit their wants and needs and that is fine.
But...some think that bodywork should only be done one particular way and think anything else is a waste of time and money.

 

[Woody500]

I find it interesting that people will do many different things to a car mechnically to suit their wants and needs and that is fine.
But...some think that bodywork should only be done one particular way and think anything else is a waste of time and money.

And when/if you repair it again you might feel that way. Some people can't see other methods as ever having merit.
As a former fabricator I'll bend a piece for lower rockers around a piece of pipe the right size, and then wheel it, if needed, since I have no brake now. WW lips are more difficult , but I have shrinker/ stretcher and will get there.
Door bottom repair panels and others are available w/prebent lip from millsupply.com. Also small partial sheets and also notched lip repairs that aren't a very good repair. But they sell to bodyshops all the time, so all bad repairs can't be foisted off on newbs, as many know when they do poor work & aren't proud enough at what they do to take the time.
Enjoy your Barracuda!

 

[Kemper]

And when/if you repair it again you might feel that way. Some people can't see other methods as ever having merit.
As a former fabricator I'll bend a piece for lower rockers around a piece of pipe the right size, and then wheel it, if needed, since I have no brake now. WW lips are more difficult , but I have shrinker/ stretcher and will get there.
Door bottom repair panels and others are available w/prebent lip from millsupply.com. Also small partial sheets and also notched lip repairs that aren't a very good repair. But they sell to bodyshops all the time, so all bad repairs can't be foisted off on newbs, as many know when they do poor work & aren't proud enough at what they do to take the time.
Enjoy your Barracuda!

I tried to emphasize the importance of treating and sealing the areas to keep the damage from reoccurring. The factory didn't always protect these areas as well as they could have and people never paid attention till something showed up.
Any failed bondo job you see is probably not treated properly. There are probably a lot of sheet metal replacements not treated properly also.
If a person treats and seals and lets an area vent where needed I don't think they will have a problem regardless of which method they used to repair.

 

[Kemper]

The area under the flaps and the hinge area had a lot of surface rust . ( I need to touch up the bolts ) I sanded it and cleaned it out , coated with rust reformer and painted.
The wide trim below the rear window shows some age and I probably have better but I'm going to detail it and leave it on. Car is suppose to look worn to a certain extent which is also the reason for using satin.
This trim sat against the soft rubber of the window gasket when new and sealed that way. The window rubber is still fairly nice but there is a small gap between it and the trim.
I'll put a fine bead of black latex Dynaflex in there and use a damp cloth to make sure the area stays clean and it is only down where it isn't seen. This will help keep the water out and still let it breath. The rubber gasket on top of the center medallion shows age but I'll use some black RTV to make it look almost as good as new and keep it from deteriating further.

 

[72bluNblu]

You're lying ? You haven't seen a car with repairs like this . All you've seen is poorly done fiberglass jobs and have probably been taken a time or two and looking for somewhere to vent.

Oh, so you know what I’ve seen in 30+ years working on cars? Wow! Do tell.

No, I have seen exactly this sort of butchery many times. I’m sure every one of the hacks that did that work thought it was legitimate too. Its not. It will crack, at which point it will not be sealed anymore, and it will fail.

The type of repairs you are talking about were done without proper treating of the cause and without proper sealing to keep the damage from coming back.
Other than the reinforced panel, there is only as much total bondo in this car as the size and thickness of your phone.

No, the bondo is clearly thicker than that. You created a whole quarter lip out of it.

You have nothing to offer people other than spending 10's of thousands on a car to do it your way when they could preserve their car and have it looking nice for a lot less.
One -way assholes like you are the reason these forums don't have more participation from people with common sense approaches, people that know how to protect their car without falling into the one-way game people like you use to try to steal their cars by trying to convince them they can't afford to keep it or fix it.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I literally daily drive my ‘74 Duster, I drove a ‘72 Challenger as my ONLY car for over 8 years. I’m not a purist or a high dollar restoration guy. Literally the opposite.

But that doesn’t mean you have to make the car worse!

You could use a couple of lower quarter patch panels and some sheet metal and a cheap, used MIG welder and have those lower quarters sorted for hundreds, not thousands and certainly not tens of thousands of dollars. And it wouldn’t take any more time or labor than what it took to make that fiberglass abomination.

There are clearly two schools of thought here. Nothing wrong with either one of them depending on the end goal. One is to restore a car as close as possible to original with sheet metal and as little filler as possible for oneself or to sell. The other one is for a guy to restore his own car the way he wants within his means to keep for his own enjoyment without misrepresenting it in a sale. Is one way better than the other? Of course, we all know welding in metal is better than fiberglass on anything except something that is already made out of fiberglass. The mere fact that this is being disclosed step by step with pictures certainly represents no misrepresentation of what Kemper is doing here. The car is being saved!

That car isn’t being saved. The “bodywork” done will ultimately leave the body in even worse shape than having done nothing at all. The real repairs will be more extensive and more costly because of that screen BS. Even if those "repairs" are addressed before the fiberglass cracks and separates from the quarter a real fix will now involve removing everything that's been done, plus some of the overlap that will be difficult to get all the sealant off for a clean weld.

If the repair is left until the fiberglass and bondo concoction starts to crack, the moisture absorbed will cause the overlap between the fiberglass and metal to rust the metal out, and require additional panel removal to get past it.

Thank you for an honest opinion. Twice now a person has accused me of trying to con someone by misrepresenting a car. That is something I would never do.

So when you sell the car you’re going to explain it needs quarters? That everything below the body line in the back is fiberglass and hardware store screen?

My thoughts exactly.
And 72bluNblu obviously didn't read or comprehend or ignored parts of the whole post, as OP had pointed out his goals were to make a driver out of what many might've considered a parts car, or otherwise let sit and deteriorate, as he has another car to restore.
And Kemper should be commended for this, as now, when it's drivable, he'll continue to repair & upgrade as needed to enjoy a vehicle and he can decide if he likes it enough to restore it fully in the future. And has also increased its' value due to its' drivability.
So it costs nothing to listen, but not every car needs full restoration to enjoy, nor can everyone afford or want one.
& someone else is correct about the uninitiated needing a welcoming place to learn to improve their skills, but many, now can only tear others down & don't support newbs.
And they know a lot about what people want to learn, but have no patience to teach.
Sorry the newbs are always asking the same annoying questions. Why not post a link to older threads to teach them, without the repetition you seem to abhor.

LOL! It’s not commendable. The “bodywork” performed has damaged the car worse than the rust that was already there. The actual repairs will involve removing everything that’s been done so far and then some.

The body of that car is damaged worse than when he started. Even if you ignore that fact, everything that has been done to the body of that car will have to be completely removed to make the proper repairs. If it was a parts car before, it’s still one now.

 

[Woody500]

Oh, so you know what I’ve seen in 30+ years working on cars? Wow! Do tell.

No, I have seen exactly this sort of butchery many times. I’m sure every one of the hacks that did that work thought it was legitimate too. Its not. It will crack, at which point it will not be sealed anymore, and it will fail.

No, the bondo is clearly thicker than that. You created a whole quarter lip out of it.


You have no idea what you’re talking about. I literally daily drive my ‘74 Duster, I drove a ‘72 Challenger as my ONLY car for over 8 years. I’m not a purist or a high dollar restoration guy. Literally the opposite.

But that doesn’t mean you have to make the car worse!

You could use a couple of lower quarter patch panels and some sheet metal and a cheap, used MIG welder and have those lower quarters sorted for hundreds, not thousands and certainly not tens of thousands of dollars. And it wouldn’t take any more time or labor than what it took to make that fiberglass abomination.


That car isn’t being saved. The “bodywork” done will ultimately leave the body in even worse shape than having done nothing at all. The real repairs will be more extensive and more costly because of that screen BS. Even if those "repairs" are addressed before the fiberglass cracks and separates from the quarter a real fix will now involve removing everything that's been done, plus some of the overlap that will be difficult to get all the sealant off for a clean weld.

If the repair is left until the fiberglass and bondo concoction starts to crack, the moisture absorbed will cause the overlap between the fiberglass and metal to rust the metal out, and require additional panel removal to get past it.


So when you sell the car you’re going to explain it needs quarters? That everything below the body line in the back is fiberglass and hardware store screen?


LOL! It’s not commendable. The “bodywork” performed has damaged the car worse than the rust that was already there. The actual repairs will involve removing everything that’s been done so far and then some.

The body of that car is damaged worse than when he started. Even if you ignore that fact, everything that has been done to the body of that car will have to be completely removed to make the proper repairs. If it was a parts car before, it’s still one now.

You seem to have a problem, as we already all know those things, and that you can't seem to go on to something else.
I'd also bet that not all of your work has always been perfect.

 

[72bluNblu]

You seem to have a problem, as we already all know those things, and that you can't seem to go on to something else.
I'd also bet that not all of your work has always been perfect.

Yes, I have a problem with people that do this kind of hack work to old cars.

Part of working on cars is realizing when you're in over your head, and either learning or seeking out the skills you need to make a proper attempt at it. Not calling someone a liar when they try to say that what you're doing will not work, will fail, and will ultimately make the car worse.

No, not all of my work has been perfect. Not at all! My welding skills, especially my MIG skills, are amateur. I've gotta grind ****. I've made plenty of mistakes, some of which are pretty well documented in my thread.

I had left this alone after the first thread where @Kemper went off about his fiberglass antenna hole "repair", until he brought me back up in another thread. And quite frankly, him continuously saying he's "preserving" this car pisses me off. Everything he's done to the body of that car has been detrimental to the car. He's made the necessary repairs harder and more extensive.

Work on your own car, I love it. Teach yourself how to do the kind of work your cars needs. Do ugly work! Do it over again and learn from your mistakes! But don't just slap crap together when you lack the skills, don't attack people that say you need to take a different path to repair your car, and don't try to pass off hack work to other people as something legitimate.

 

[Kemper]

I don't think

72bluNblu​

has a clue as to anything other than his little world .

 

[Kemper]

I started to go around and do some " fine tuning " . This panel really turned out good but I seen a little on there that I doubt most people will notice . The amount of money saved by doing this panel this way compared to " traditional " is enough to buy and overhaul 2 of these engines that I overhauled and have in my inventory. When you put things in perspective you can see the advantages of doing some common sense work rather than trying to look overly cool on the internet.

 

[Kemper]

I am doing some " fine tuning" today as I want this car ready for gloss but I'm going with satin. I don't know how well the pics will work as I'm talking about minor imperfections.

This primer/paint works well for several reasons . It lets you have a coat of paint under areas that you may not final coat , depending on what trim you remove for that. It also seems to work sorta like a high build primer and is not hard to sand and spot putty adheres quite well to it .
I'm dry sanding with 220 for this and the paint levels and shows no scratches . I tried to show the dust from the sanding to give more of an example but is hard to get that to show up. I wetted my finger and rubbed a little dirt in an area to try to show how minute of imperfections I'm talking about.

This section of the deck lid was not bondoed but I spot puttied it. . There was original paint in areas of this that was on tight but was dinged and needed tapered out. Bondo probably would have worked also for the initial skim .

 

[Kemper]

I'm back at going around and touching up any minute imperfections. There are not as many as I thought I may find. You can spot these areas and touch up with the primer/paint product you are using as the initial coat.The preservation is really turning out nicer than what I anticipated at the start. One thing leads to another. This works good under the scenario I wanted to show people that may not want to or can not afford to do a different type of build. ( I know, broken record )

You certainly can do things differently according to your situation, but I tried to keep it as doable under very confined conditions and as an example - for someone doing it in their driveway ,with limited funds , no place to store parts, only able to work on periodically etc. etc.
You can put a car cover on it and pull it off or back and continue to work on at your own convenience.

I am not pushing or trying to encourage you to do anything other than to not let your car continue to rot and to do what you can under your position and wants.

I would not encourage you to go buy a welder and try to replace metal on your car just because you think that is the way it has to be done. Nothing wrong with doing that under the right circumstances. I am a bit worried that someone might steer you in that direction without taking numerous things into consideration that may pertain to you .

I am confident that you can do this without worrying about your car losing value because of your work . Take into consideration what the naysayers have to say because there may be something there also that could be helpful to you . Make sure you are confident that you can do whatever you decide, but don't devalue your car or get started on a project that takes away from the fun you should have by working on it and getting it on the road if it is not.

 

[Dartnut]

I appreciate you starting this thread and doing cheap body repairs that many would say are a waste of time and money.
To keep it in perspective is the goal here, simply doing what you can to make a car look decent for a few years to keep it on the road and enjoyed until it's just parts or the money comes through to do it ''right''.
At least another car is on the road (good or bad) to be driven and enjoyed.
You have definitely put some thought into the project.
I would love to see the car in 5 years to see what worked and what did not and why.
That is why I have encouraged you with my likes...

 

[Kemper]

I appreciate you starting this thread and doing cheap body repairs that many would say are a waste of time and money.
To keep it in perspective is the goal here, simply doing what you can to make a car look decent for a few years to keep it on the road and enjoyed until it's just parts or the money comes through to do it ''right''.
At least another car is on the road (good or bad) to be driven and enjoyed.
You have definitely put some thought into the project.
I would love to see the car in 5 years to see what worked and what did not and why.
That is why I have encouraged you with my likes...

Thank you. I have done some body work in my younger years that I would not be proud of . I had a work truck that I did body work on that I drove on a daily basis and didn't see any problems for a couple of years. That was without proper treatment . I'm sure this type of repair would have lasted much longer.

I doubt this car will see much time on salt covered icy roads , so it would be hard to make a comparison. One thing that is for sure is that if you repair this type of damage using " conventional " methods , putting the car back to or close to factory conditions , you are putting it back to what we know failed. There is no doubt on that.

But a person has to be realistic and not compare their work to other work that wasn't done the same and didn't have preventive measures taken.

Depending on how a person is going to use their car is going to determine how long their repair lasts. If a person repaired their car in this fashion and it saw the same use as many classic car , I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem .

But, we don't see fiberglass repair work that much thought was put into it . We don't see fiberglass repair work that was treated and sealed from the elements so there is no comparison . We have seen fiberglass and metal work that failed and either method will fail again if put under the same or similar conditions .

This type of preservation or build or whatever one would call it is doable by many more people and affordable by many more people and may be a more common sense investment depending on the vehicle . It wasn't a matter of affordability for me , but rather a preference and I wanted to encourage people to do something with their car if it was in similar condition as mine.

Some people will use exaggerations to condemn this type of work when they have no comparison to what I've documented here. It's not an exaggeration that some are working on or have worked on a car putting it back to a state that we all know failed. I think the treatment of a car after a repair is a bigger factor than what method was used in most cases.

 

[Woody500]

Thank you. I have done some body work in my younger years that I would not be proud of . I had a work truck that I did body work on that I drove on a daily basis and didn't see any problems for a couple of years. That was without proper treatment . I'm sure this type of repair would have lasted much longer.

I doubt this car will see much time on salt covered icy roads , so it would be hard to make a comparison. One thing that is for sure is that if you repair this type of damage using " conventional " methods , putting the car back to or close to factory conditions , you are putting it back to what we know failed. There is no doubt on that.

But a person has to be realistic and not compare their work to other work that wasn't done the same and didn't have preventive measures taken.

Depending on how a person is going to use their car is going to determine how long their repair lasts. If a person repaired their car in this fashion and it saw the same use as many classic car , I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem .

But, we don't see fiberglass repair work that much thought was put into it . We don't see fiberglass repair work that was treated and sealed from the elements so there is no comparison . We have seen fiberglass and metal work that failed and either method will fail again if put under the same or similar conditions .

This type of preservation or build or whatever one would call it is doable by many more people and affordable by many more people and may be a more common sense investment depending on the vehicle . It wasn't a matter of affordability for me , but rather a preference and I wanted to encourage people to do something with their car if it was in similar condition as mine.

Some people will use exaggerations to condemn this type of work when they have no comparison to what I've documented here. It's not an exaggeration that some are working on or have worked on a car putting it back to a state that we all know failed. I think the treatment of a car after a repair is a bigger factor than what method was used in most cases.

And that is the reason I followed this & commented positively & called out some that hadn't read your reasoning.
And I said, about my own 65 Barracuda that I'd Ospho-ed(phosphoric acid) & Miracle Painted(early, possibly original POR type) the underside & painted it before cured.
What I never went into was car was solid but rough, with repairs done in late 70s.
The son of the original owner is my friend & car came from Scottsberg Indiana, so winters took a toll. I just want a driver so I wasn't real worried. He had told me it had been 'Jumped' over a Railroad track crossing out in the country and was then repaired.
After I got it home(traded a 1965 20' Chris-Craft, for it plus a slant 6 parts car) I saw some strange repairs. Had seen the bondo was floated between rear windows & bubble window & loose in spots, so I assumed it had damage there. Also behind doors.
Before painting bottom I checked frame & it had been straightened, so I rebuilt front suspension & painted , removed chrome, fixed dents & mulled it over, & decided if i removed all the bondo I might find too much ,so..
I drilled 5/32 holes in the bondo, where loose. Then injected it with ospho to stop the rust & then miacle paint to seal it.
Then I injected it with West System Marine Epoxy, thinned w/Acetone to be sure of full penetration(heat helps too), then followed that with the same Epoxy with fillers to thicken it, still fluid enough, and some thicker. That loose bondo is now solid, so I could move on.
RH lower quarter & ww lip was repaired, w bondo before i got it.
Still haven't done the left. Had to move my Mother, she died, had to move all her stuff again, moved to Florida & moved again down here.
Not worried about originality either, as they'd neglected the Anti Freeze & froze the original 273 & put a 72 318 in it.
So everything you've done is totally understandable to me.
Now the bashing will begin anew.
Don't Care!

 

[Kemper]

Other than the bondo issue there are other advantages to this preservation. Preserving the car is the main point and all else is gravy, as they say.
When I started I had this car sitting outside that ran and drove well but was deteriating. Previously before I owned it , it had the engine rebuilt at a technical college with the heads and valvetrain changed to run on unleaded gas. I don't know if they did the transmission or not.
It was sitting there with the top quarter trim clips rusted out leaving it bowed up and a total of about 20 clip holes allowing water to get into the body.

It had 2 holes where CB antennas were mounted at one time on the quarters . It had several small rusted out areas that water was getting into and it had pretty extensive damage at the bottom of one quarter panel. The amount of bondo I put in other than the quarter panel fix/experiment would equal approx the size and thickness of your phone. I think you could do this on a car with more damage and I wouldn't suggest making panels for large areas and if you have collision damage you probably need to address that at least to a stage where you can do a project similar to this.

I could have done things that just focused on preserving it but if I was going to do anything besides letting it sit there and rot , iI wanted to get more out of my efforts and see how nice I could get it look without getting into a long process and spending a lot of money on it . Since it was a preservation project I focused on keeping as much of the original metal in the car as I could . I doubt the car would ever have a market value that would come close to the money it would take to bring the car to the high end of it's market . A person could always do what they want in the future if they wanted to do anything differently .

I'm getting too long here, but want to explain my reasoning for choosing the methods I chose on this other than whether or not to use bondo so I'll probably talk on them too.

 

[Kemper]

My car was looking so good , it was making the " big shop " look bad so my wife ( I helped a little ) painted the doors and window trims.

But this project was showing what could be done with no shop, no place to store parts and work on other than items that you could work on in the kitchen if you were in that position. Products and techniques used fit into that scenario. I was not really under the restrictions of this build but did so and probably would take the same route if I decided to do another car wanting similar results. Weather is an important factor and that will make a difference. Nice to be outside doing something .

 

[RustyRatRod]

"Am I crazy for doing this on a 65 Barracuda ?"

Nah. You're just crazy.


You're in good company, though.

 

[Kemper]

"Am I crazy for doing this on a 65 Barracuda ?"

Nah. You're just crazy.


You're in good company, though.

You're probably not exaggerating.

 

[Kemper]

This first pic is of the factory wheel lip. There is a small glob of weld ( not lead ) from the factory . I just left as and primed/painted.

Here's a pic of the metal piece I installed . It is long enough to go up and in between the wheel opening and the trunk floor extension .
This piece is made to have it's edge at the right position . The panel I made into this is not as thick as this piece may make it look. The panel tapers up to this edge slightly just as the original and this piece is wide enough to allow for a bead of sealant on the backside before undercoating.
The reinforced panel itself is approx 1/2 inch maybe less. The rivets you see in this piece were shown earlier of their purpose to mount the galvanized mesh rceivers ( sounds professional ) in the proper position and the bottom rivet also goes into the tang that is from bending up the last 3/4 inch of the trunk floor/body panel edge that was made. With this metal not being as thick as original and since it is overfiberglass I will pre-drill holes when installing the molding to not put stress on the panel. It may not be neccesary but only takes a minute. 2nd pic here gives a better view of how this appears .

 

[mygasser]

in the second pic above i'd grind the new 'lip' to match the width all the way round. it's a dead giveaway as to how the repair was done and looks unfinished. i'm not criticizing as i've repaired arches the same way myself before.
neil.

 

[Woody500]

Where can you get new rubber cabin ventilation flaps or material? It's gotta be just right flexible.

 

[jeff alder]

there is a set on ebay... item number267002222045 the rubber looks good with the metal brackets $35

 

[Woody500]

Both used or old stock, the rubber will not be flexible enough any more.