67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Reposted with permission from MyMopar. Visit once in awhile Lot's of good stuff over there. I use the wiring diagrams quite "regular"
This post shows just how easy "details" of a car change in the high dollar world of collectible cars
Read down through the auctions and sales this vehicle has gone through, and notice how it's "changed". Maybe you CAN put lipstick on a pig!!
http://www.mymopar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15852
wanted to share with you a recent encounter I had in regards to a request I received to decode a 1969 Dodge Charger R/T for a gentleman overseas. The gentleman purchased the car off eBay Motors and the car was in transit to his home from the US. I was asked to provide a decoding of the fender tag for his new arrival.
I was given a number of digital photographs of the car and fender tag. One pic that was suspiciously missing was the VIN tag. I asked the gentleman if he could provide me with a digital copy of the VIN tag but was told that the current owner only provided him the VIN on the sales receipt. At this point and alarm bells went off in my head. Looking at the pic of the fender tag, something did not look right. This in combination with a lack of an image of the VIN tag sent me on a search to see if I could find out anything suspicious about the car. And boy did I find it! Please be careful when purchasing a classic car as you can see, when there is a profit to be made people will do about anything.
Below is my initial write up in regards to my findings.
--------
Dear Sir,
Thank you for the information. I wanted to receive this information from you before providing you the information I have found in regards to your car. I think that the sales history of your car over the past 3 years should provide you with enough information for you to determine a course of action. In my opinion, this car was not accurately presented to you.
As part of my pre-work in decoding a fender tag, I preform an exhaustive online search to see if I can find out anything about the car. With your vehicle I was able to find out some very surprising information. Here is a summary of my findings:
June 28, 2009
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970 is sold on eBay Motors for $2,650 USD. Here is a link to an archive of this listing: http://collectorcarpricetracker.com/auctio...l/280361613413/
As you can see from the pictures and from the description, the car is a real 1969 Charger R/T with a VIN tag, but it is missing its motor and transmission. The car originally left the factory with a blue exterior paint, white vinyl top, white bumble bee stripe, and blue interior. In the original eBay Motors listing the seller also states the following:
"The car at one point was involved in a grass fire. It needs total restoration but it is a real deal 69 RT from Oklahoma with excellent frame rails front to back. Will need floor pans or patches and a trunk floor. Also needs lower quarters and metal work in the back window area. No title, no fender tag."
Here is a link to the PDF file of the original eBay Motors Listing with description: [ame="http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2009/6/28/280361613413/280361613413.pdf"]http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/...80361613413.pdf[/ame]
April 8, 2011
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970 is sold at the Barrett Jackson Palm Beach auction for $48,400 USD. Here is a link to the auction listing on the Barrett Jackson web site: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application...9.2&aid=363
The auction provides the following details:
"Triple black paint combination with red stripe and red line tires. It has had a no-expense-spared complete rotisserie restoration. This 1969 Dodge Charger R/T has had a complete frame-off rotisserie restoration. All mechanical components have been completely rebuilt. It has a correct date coded 440hp engine that has been professionally rebuilt and restored to original specifications. The undercarriage was disassembled with every part rebuilt or replaced, including transmission, brakes, Sure-grip posi-traction rear end, fuel line and fuel tank. This Charger has factory air conditioning and has been modified to an aftermarket air conditioner, heat and defrost unit. This was installed to keep the original appearance, but the aftermarket unit gives it a better quality performance. All the controls for this unit are located in the glove box. Options include power steering, power disc brakes, original AM radio that was restored, bucket seats, console, rally wheels, wood steering wheel and red line tires."
April 18, 2012
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970 is sold on eBay Motors for $64,600 USD
Here is the link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/190664675429
Here are the listing details:
This true 1969 Dodge Charger R/T is finished in beautiful black, black interior, and black vinyl roof. This rare southern classic has all original sheet metal with no rust or rust repair ever before undergoing a bare metal professional, nut and bolt, Rotisserie Restoration including Exterior, Interior, Chrome, and Mechanics. It has the correct date coded High Output 440 Magnum that has been rebuilt and restored to original specifications along with the original Torqueflite 727 3 speed automatic. There is around 700 miles on the car since completion. Options include, Power Steering, Power Brakes, Factory Air Conditioning which has been modified with updated heat and air with the controls in the glove box, Tic-Toc Tach, Wood Dash, rebuilt 355 Sure Grip rear end, Hood Mounted Turn Signals and Red Line Tires.
All aspects of this highly optioned car were attended to during restoration including the paint which is the original color, but far superior than the factory ever put out. The chrome and bright work are equally impressive. All mechanics, suspension, and braking components have been meticulously gone through with all systems performing robustly and all guages working as they should. The engine is ready to score big at any Mopar meet, and the underside is spectacular. It drives as good as it looks with professional attention confirming the high state of tune. Best of all is the satisfying rumble of a finely tuned 440 Magnum representing the pinnacle of American Muscle.
Here is your chance to add a low mileage, and very beautifully restored Dodge Charger R/T to your collection that is 100% ready to show or tour with as you might please. Please feel fee to call me (Dan) with any questions. I am not a dealer, this is my personal car. I have 100% feedback so please bid with confidence.
Observations
Based on the sales history I believe the following in regards to the 1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970:
1) This car originally left the factory with a blue exterior paint, white vinyl top, white bumble bee stripe, and blue interior. The eBay Motors listing on June 28, 2009 confirm this from the pictures and description.
2) It is stated in the June 28, 2009 eBay auction that the car obtained fire damage from being involved in a grass fire at one point.
3) It is stated in the June 28, 2009 eBay auction that the car was missing the vehicle title and fender tag.
4) It is stated in the June 28, 2009 eBay auction that the car has several rust issues that would require repair/replacement of original body panels.
5) From its original sale on Jun 28, 2009 to the Barrett Jackson auction sale on April 8, 2011, this car could have undergone an extensive restoration. Another possibility is that the car was subjected to a re-tagging of the XS29L9G182970 VIN tag to another donor car. Without further inspection of the car, this can not be determined.
6) Portions of the vehicle description as presented in the April 18, 2012 eBay Motors auction appear to have significant discrepancies with the facts:
7) In the June 28, 2009 eBay Motors auction, it is stated the car was missing the fender tag. But yet the car has a fender tag in the April 18, 2012 eBay Motors auction. Decoding the exterior and interior color codes on the fender tag from the April 18, 2012 eBay Motors auction provide the following
Exterior Color: X9 - Black
Roof Color: X9 - Black
Interior Color: C6X - Black Vinyl Bucket Seats
Door Interior Trim Color: X9 - Black
Taking into consideration that the car did not possess a fender tag in the June 28, 2009 eBay Motors auction and was originally blue with a white vinyl top, white bumble bee stripe and blue interior, I am confident that the fender tag that is on this vehicle is not the original fender tag, but is instead a reproduction made to falsely represent the car as an original black car.
Final Thoughts
Based on the evidence I have uncovered in regards to the inconsistencies of this car, I am not able to provide any services to decode the fender tag because it is my belief that the fender tag is a reproduction and does not accurately represent the car as originally built. If all of these details that I have provided to you were disclosed to you prior to your purchase, then you purchased the car with full disclosure, but from your feedback this does not appear to be the case. The car looks fantastic, but in my opinion has discrepancies that question its stated originality pedigree.
I have also attached a write up I did in regards to the vehicle sales history.
If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know.
Richard Kras
This post shows just how easy "details" of a car change in the high dollar world of collectible cars
Read down through the auctions and sales this vehicle has gone through, and notice how it's "changed". Maybe you CAN put lipstick on a pig!!
http://www.mymopar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15852
wanted to share with you a recent encounter I had in regards to a request I received to decode a 1969 Dodge Charger R/T for a gentleman overseas. The gentleman purchased the car off eBay Motors and the car was in transit to his home from the US. I was asked to provide a decoding of the fender tag for his new arrival.
I was given a number of digital photographs of the car and fender tag. One pic that was suspiciously missing was the VIN tag. I asked the gentleman if he could provide me with a digital copy of the VIN tag but was told that the current owner only provided him the VIN on the sales receipt. At this point and alarm bells went off in my head. Looking at the pic of the fender tag, something did not look right. This in combination with a lack of an image of the VIN tag sent me on a search to see if I could find out anything suspicious about the car. And boy did I find it! Please be careful when purchasing a classic car as you can see, when there is a profit to be made people will do about anything.
Below is my initial write up in regards to my findings.
--------
Dear Sir,
Thank you for the information. I wanted to receive this information from you before providing you the information I have found in regards to your car. I think that the sales history of your car over the past 3 years should provide you with enough information for you to determine a course of action. In my opinion, this car was not accurately presented to you.
As part of my pre-work in decoding a fender tag, I preform an exhaustive online search to see if I can find out anything about the car. With your vehicle I was able to find out some very surprising information. Here is a summary of my findings:
June 28, 2009
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970 is sold on eBay Motors for $2,650 USD. Here is a link to an archive of this listing: http://collectorcarpricetracker.com/auctio...l/280361613413/
As you can see from the pictures and from the description, the car is a real 1969 Charger R/T with a VIN tag, but it is missing its motor and transmission. The car originally left the factory with a blue exterior paint, white vinyl top, white bumble bee stripe, and blue interior. In the original eBay Motors listing the seller also states the following:
"The car at one point was involved in a grass fire. It needs total restoration but it is a real deal 69 RT from Oklahoma with excellent frame rails front to back. Will need floor pans or patches and a trunk floor. Also needs lower quarters and metal work in the back window area. No title, no fender tag."
Here is a link to the PDF file of the original eBay Motors Listing with description: [ame="http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2009/6/28/280361613413/280361613413.pdf"]http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/...80361613413.pdf[/ame]
April 8, 2011
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970 is sold at the Barrett Jackson Palm Beach auction for $48,400 USD. Here is a link to the auction listing on the Barrett Jackson web site: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application...9.2&aid=363
The auction provides the following details:
"Triple black paint combination with red stripe and red line tires. It has had a no-expense-spared complete rotisserie restoration. This 1969 Dodge Charger R/T has had a complete frame-off rotisserie restoration. All mechanical components have been completely rebuilt. It has a correct date coded 440hp engine that has been professionally rebuilt and restored to original specifications. The undercarriage was disassembled with every part rebuilt or replaced, including transmission, brakes, Sure-grip posi-traction rear end, fuel line and fuel tank. This Charger has factory air conditioning and has been modified to an aftermarket air conditioner, heat and defrost unit. This was installed to keep the original appearance, but the aftermarket unit gives it a better quality performance. All the controls for this unit are located in the glove box. Options include power steering, power disc brakes, original AM radio that was restored, bucket seats, console, rally wheels, wood steering wheel and red line tires."
April 18, 2012
1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970 is sold on eBay Motors for $64,600 USD
Here is the link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/190664675429
Here are the listing details:
This true 1969 Dodge Charger R/T is finished in beautiful black, black interior, and black vinyl roof. This rare southern classic has all original sheet metal with no rust or rust repair ever before undergoing a bare metal professional, nut and bolt, Rotisserie Restoration including Exterior, Interior, Chrome, and Mechanics. It has the correct date coded High Output 440 Magnum that has been rebuilt and restored to original specifications along with the original Torqueflite 727 3 speed automatic. There is around 700 miles on the car since completion. Options include, Power Steering, Power Brakes, Factory Air Conditioning which has been modified with updated heat and air with the controls in the glove box, Tic-Toc Tach, Wood Dash, rebuilt 355 Sure Grip rear end, Hood Mounted Turn Signals and Red Line Tires.
All aspects of this highly optioned car were attended to during restoration including the paint which is the original color, but far superior than the factory ever put out. The chrome and bright work are equally impressive. All mechanics, suspension, and braking components have been meticulously gone through with all systems performing robustly and all guages working as they should. The engine is ready to score big at any Mopar meet, and the underside is spectacular. It drives as good as it looks with professional attention confirming the high state of tune. Best of all is the satisfying rumble of a finely tuned 440 Magnum representing the pinnacle of American Muscle.
Here is your chance to add a low mileage, and very beautifully restored Dodge Charger R/T to your collection that is 100% ready to show or tour with as you might please. Please feel fee to call me (Dan) with any questions. I am not a dealer, this is my personal car. I have 100% feedback so please bid with confidence.
Observations
Based on the sales history I believe the following in regards to the 1969 Dodge Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9G182970:
1) This car originally left the factory with a blue exterior paint, white vinyl top, white bumble bee stripe, and blue interior. The eBay Motors listing on June 28, 2009 confirm this from the pictures and description.
2) It is stated in the June 28, 2009 eBay auction that the car obtained fire damage from being involved in a grass fire at one point.
3) It is stated in the June 28, 2009 eBay auction that the car was missing the vehicle title and fender tag.
4) It is stated in the June 28, 2009 eBay auction that the car has several rust issues that would require repair/replacement of original body panels.
5) From its original sale on Jun 28, 2009 to the Barrett Jackson auction sale on April 8, 2011, this car could have undergone an extensive restoration. Another possibility is that the car was subjected to a re-tagging of the XS29L9G182970 VIN tag to another donor car. Without further inspection of the car, this can not be determined.
6) Portions of the vehicle description as presented in the April 18, 2012 eBay Motors auction appear to have significant discrepancies with the facts:
A - The paint which is the original color - Proven incorrect from the June 28, 2009 eBay Auction listing
B - Has all original sheet metal with no rust or rust repair ever - Proven incorrect from the June 28, 2009 eBay Auction listing
C - It has the correct date coded High Output 440 Magnum - It may be a date coded replacement, but not the original VIN stamped engine that came with the car
7) In the June 28, 2009 eBay Motors auction, it is stated the car was missing the fender tag. But yet the car has a fender tag in the April 18, 2012 eBay Motors auction. Decoding the exterior and interior color codes on the fender tag from the April 18, 2012 eBay Motors auction provide the following
Exterior Color: X9 - Black
Roof Color: X9 - Black
Interior Color: C6X - Black Vinyl Bucket Seats
Door Interior Trim Color: X9 - Black
Taking into consideration that the car did not possess a fender tag in the June 28, 2009 eBay Motors auction and was originally blue with a white vinyl top, white bumble bee stripe and blue interior, I am confident that the fender tag that is on this vehicle is not the original fender tag, but is instead a reproduction made to falsely represent the car as an original black car.
Final Thoughts
Based on the evidence I have uncovered in regards to the inconsistencies of this car, I am not able to provide any services to decode the fender tag because it is my belief that the fender tag is a reproduction and does not accurately represent the car as originally built. If all of these details that I have provided to you were disclosed to you prior to your purchase, then you purchased the car with full disclosure, but from your feedback this does not appear to be the case. The car looks fantastic, but in my opinion has discrepancies that question its stated originality pedigree.
I have also attached a write up I did in regards to the vehicle sales history.
If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know.
Richard Kras
not kidding only way to make the investment worth it, Smiles per gallon 
