Auxiliary water pump

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ChuckDock

ChuckDock

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Hello all,
I've been at the track a couple of times this year for the first time. What I notice is that the engine takes forever to cool down after a couple hits on the 1/4 mile.
I don't want to install an electric water pump but would like to plumb in an auxiliary water pump to move water only when the engine isn't running. So after a lap, I shut it down, flip on a switch for the electric radiator fan and a switch for a water pump.
I don't want to cut into the top or bottom radiator and install the pump there since it wont be running when the engine is and I don't want to restrict mechanical flow.
Ideally, if there is a way to push water through the engine using ports on the intake and ports on the water pump that would be great, but I just don't understand how that flow works and that if it will push water through the block/heads and radiator doing it this way.
Any suggestions?

motor water flow.jpg
 
ChuckDock said:
Ideally, if there is a way to push water through the engine using ports on the intake and ports on the water pump that would be great, but I just don't understand how that flow works and that if it will push water through the block/heads and radiator doing it this way.
Any suggestions?

View attachment 1715603974
Click to expand...

Plumb it in just the way you would a heater. Since you have the bypass plugged, the bypass port on the pump and the bypass port on the intake would do it. The heater and bypass pump ports are the intake into the pump and are essentially the same point as the lower hose, INTO the pump. Pump forces water into both front ends of the block, and it returns out at the top hose. So the bypass port right below the stat is your outlet.
 
use the fitting for the heater hoses and get a elect pump to move the water they have them on school buses to pump coolant to the rear heater cores
 
Ah ok, so the small fitting on the water pump, and the fitting on the intake manifold I take it you guys mean.
That bypass hose...is that really needed if I dont have heat? I see so many opinions on that, its hard to know.
 
Just get a good electric water pump and be done with it.
Decide if you are going to race much, or just once or twice a year.
How hot does it actually get
 
Running a pump in the heater core circuit might work, might not. If the water is picked up from near the thermostat and pushed into the heater return line on the water pump and water circulates in the block - there's nothing to really help draw heat out of the coolant.
With the engine off, and the thermostat likely wide-open it's possible this routing may circulate water backwards in the radiator, but may not circulate much in the block. Won't really do much better than just letting the fan run.
The pump would have to be plumbed to either pick-up or drop-off water at the radiator to get some flow through it. Without adding fittings on the radiator tanks or splicing hoses this is a bit tough - and with it plumbed in parallel, the flow will follow the path of least resistance and not necessarily the path which helps cool things off.

An electric water pump or electric motor driving the water pump in the pits would be the way to go (maybe swap the belt between the electric drive and the mechanical drive between rounds?).
 
Like Phreakish is saying, could you build a bracket to put an electric motor where the power steering would normally be and swap belts between rounds? That way you could have the water circulating through the block like the engine was running, and you could have your electric fan on to cool the radiator.
 
B3422w5 said:
Just get a good electric water pump and be done with it.
Decide if you are going to race much, or just once or twice a year.
How hot does it actually get
Click to expand...
True, it would be easy enough to do but then the money that was spent on the serpentine setup would be partly a waste.
I worked on this car all winter and finished up a couple months ago but only made it to the track twice. The reason is front end vibrations that I havent figured out. I have bought new wheels and tires and 3 of the 4 wheels were out of round so I had Summit exchange them. When I'm at 90-100mph, the front starts vibrating and I have to let off before the end of the quarter. I'm only running 12.2's now, but know the car will do much better with a proper launch, and a good top end.
So, I do plan to race about every weekend next summer. I love racing. With the 4:30 locked rear end, its not too good on the road so I wont be street driving it much, except to test and tune.
When I did a few hot laps, the car got to 220 degrees. It just takes forever to cool down so I figured that if I could circulate the water and leave the fan on, it would cool much better in the pits.
I may have just talked myself into the electric water pump, lol
 
oldkimmer said:
Do u have room for a larger crank pulley? How much room between them? Kim
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where you are going with the pulley sizes. The car stays at 190 with normal driving. I just need better cooling between laps. I assume you are getting at over driving the water pump to cool better? But in between laps I'd rather the car turned off.
 
Phreakish said:
Running a pump in the heater core circuit might work, might not. If the water is picked up from near the thermostat and pushed into the heater return line on the water pump and water circulates in the block - there's nothing to really help draw heat out of the coolant.
With the engine off, and the thermostat likely wide-open it's possible this routing may circulate water backwards in the radiator, but may not circulate much in the block. Won't really do much better than just letting the fan run.
The pump would have to be plumbed to either pick-up or drop-off water at the radiator to get some flow through it. Without adding fittings on the radiator tanks or splicing hoses this is a bit tough - and with it plumbed in parallel, the flow will follow the path of least resistance and not necessarily the path which helps cool things off.

An electric water pump or electric motor driving the water pump in the pits would be the way to go (maybe swap the belt between the electric drive and the mechanical drive between rounds?).
Click to expand...
That is a good point, does driving water through where the heater hoses would be circulate through the block and heads....just don't know.
Like I just mentioned in another post, I could do an electric water pump but it just seems like with a little creativity I could get the same results much cheaper and more specific to my application.
I probably should drain out my antifreeze and save it since its brand new, and then just do some testing with a hose and the heater core ports and see what happens.
 
ChuckDock said:
That is a good point, does driving water through where the heater hoses would be circulate through the block and heads....just don't know.
Like I just mentioned in another post, I could do an electric water pump but it just seems like with a little creativity I could get the same results much cheaper and more specific to my application.
I probably should drain out my antifreeze and save it since its brand new, and then just do some testing with a hose and the heater core ports and see what happens.
Click to expand...
I should add in, the flow like you mentioned, needs to go through the radiator as well as the motor to get any cooling done.
 
ChuckDock said:
That is a good point, does driving water through where the heater hoses would be circulate through the block and heads....just don't know.
Like I just mentioned in another post, I could do an electric water pump but it just seems like with a little creativity I could get the same results much cheaper and more specific to my application.
I probably should drain out my antifreeze and save it since its brand new, and then just do some testing with a hose and the heater core ports and see what happens.
Click to expand...

That would be a good start, because that will be the only good way to see. Of course, an open/closed thermostat will change things. So test with and without it installed. In a perfect world, you'd get some flow through the engine AND the radiator. Moving water in the block won't do much good if you can't get the heat out of the coolant by flowing through the radiator.
 
Phreakish said:
That would be a good start, because that will be the only good way to see. Of course, an open/closed thermostat will change things. So test with and without it installed. In a perfect world, you'd get some flow through the engine AND the radiator. Moving water in the block won't do much good if you can't get the heat out of the coolant by flowing through the radiator.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
ChuckDock said:
True, it would be easy enough to do but then the money that was spent on the serpentine setup would be partly a waste.
I worked on this car all winter and finished up a couple months ago but only made it to the track twice. The reason is front end vibrations that I havent figured out. I have bought new wheels and tires and 3 of the 4 wheels were out of round so I had Summit exchange them. When I'm at 90-100mph, the front starts vibrating and I have to let off before the end of the quarter. I'm only running 12.2's now, but know the car will do much better with a proper launch, and a good top end.
So, I do plan to race about every weekend next summer. I love racing. With the 4:30 locked rear end, its not too good on the road so I wont be street driving it much, except to test and tune.
When I did a few hot laps, the car got to 220 degrees. It just takes forever to cool down so I figured that if I could circulate the water and leave the fan on, it would cool much better in the pits.
I may have just talked myself into the electric water pump, lol
Click to expand...

you have other issues to solve with your current cooling system if the car is getting to 220 after every pass.
I would try and fix that first, instead of trying to put a bandaid on it by getting it to come down from 220 quicker.
That isn't normal.
 
B3422w5 said:
you have other issues to solve with your current cooling system if the car is getting to 220 after every pass.
I would try and fix that first, instead of trying to put a bandaid on it by getting it to come down from 220 quicker.
That isn't normal.
Click to expand...
Oh no, its not every pass. its just when I hot lap it 3 times in a row, lol. The cooling system works fine when I drive it on the road. It seems like its always a hot day with full sun when I'm racing too which doesn't help it cool quick. I have a good big 2 row aluminum radiator and a fancy water pump. The electric fan is low profile for fitment reasons, and that probably doesn't help a lot.
If I do one run, then let it cool down 15 minutes before the next run, its down to 190 or less for the next pass. But being 160 would be a lot nicer.
Plus, the days I've gone have been Sunday, and the track only has 2 hours of test and tune, and then it goes to bracket racing. After bracket racing there is more test and tune, but I dont stick around that long. Thats why I hot lap it, but I wont be doing that anymore. I got 7 runs in under 2 hours time. In the future I'll stay longer.
I'm just impatient and love racing, and dont want to wait for the car to cool down. So with the electric fan going, and water circulating through everything with the engine off, I'm sure it would cool down pretty quick in between laps.
 
Something like this? There are similar pumps that you plumb in at the lower radiator hose also. Search enough and you’ll find something ideal. Turbo car applications seem to be another source of info regarding these type pumps.

E1103424-10CD-4551-8D94-915CF1B60881.jpeg
 
ChuckDock said:
Oh no, its not every pass. its just when I hot lap it 3 times in a row, lol. The cooling system works fine when I drive it on the road. It seems like its always a hot day with full sun when I'm racing too which doesn't help it cool quick. I have a good big 2 row aluminum radiator and a fancy water pump. The electric fan is low profile for fitment reasons, and that probably doesn't help a lot.
If I do one run, then let it cool down 15 minutes before the next run, its down to 190 or less for the next pass. But being 160 would be a lot nicer.
Plus, the days I've gone have been Sunday, and the track only has 2 hours of test and tune, and then it goes to bracket racing. After bracket racing there is more test and tune, but I dont stick around that long. Thats why I hot lap it, but I wont be doing that anymore. I got 7 runs in under 2 hours time. In the future I'll stay longer.
I'm just impatient and love racing, and dont want to wait for the car to cool down. So with the electric fan going, and water circulating through everything with the engine off, I'm sure it would cool down pretty quick in between laps.
Click to expand...
 
Taking 15 minutes to get down to 190 after a pass is a problem, no matter the weather.
That is what you have to fix first.
My car doesn't even hit 180 after a pass, can hot lap it( and have many times) car has never gotten to even 190.
Turn my electric fan and water pump on and its 130-135 in 6 or 7 minutes, if that. No matter the conditions.
In 1/8 mile, dont even have to run fan and pump, it never approaches 180.
Again, what you are seeing is an issue.
Lean, timing, inadequate cooling( not enough fan maybe), those are all possibilities.
I would suspect the fan first. If its electric and isnt drawing at least 20+ amps, it isnt moving enough air to do you any good. Cheap parts store fans arent good enough.
I have seen the difference between a good fan and a cheapie parts store fan. Its astounding the difference. Had this xact problem with my current car. Cheap 40 dollar fan. Even with electric pump, took too much time to cool off. Swapped to a real fan( actually right at the track 3 years ago).... night and friggin day. Made a big issue a non issue quickly
 
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I have my electric water pump on Craigslist right now. It still is sealed to the timing cover. I really liked it when I was drag racing much more. It works fine on the street to.. but when it came to cooling the car down in between rounds nice and quick like along with the electric fan there was nothing like it.... One thing though... I ended up having to buy a smaller Drive pulley because now at that point I'm just running the alternator only and it is not triangulating the belt... It had the tendency to fly off at high RPMs with a factory size Drive pulley...
 
B3422w5 said:
Taking 15 minutes to get down to 190 after a pass is a problem, no matter the weather.
That is what you have to fix first.
My car doesn't even hit 180 after a pass, can hot lap it( and have many times) car has never gotten to even 190.
Turn my electric fan and water pump on and its 130-135 in 6 or 7 minutes, if that. No matter the conditions.
In 1/8 mile, dont even have to run fan and pump, it never approaches 180.
Again, what you are seeing is an issue.
Lean, timing, inadequate cooling( not enough fan maybe), those are all possibilities.
I would suspect the fan first. If its electric and isnt drawing at least 20+ amps, it isnt moving enough air to do you any good. Cheap parts store fans arent good enough.
I have seen the difference between a good fan and a cheapie parts store fan. Its astounding the difference. Had this xact problem with my current car. Cheap 40 dollar fan. Even with electric pump, took too much time to cool off. Swapped to a real fan( actually right at the track 3 years ago).... night and friggin day. Made a big issue a non issue quickly
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm probably wrong on the 15 minutes to cool. After a lap, my car sometimes didnt even reach 190 and the fan never came on, its just the hot lapping that heats it up. Between doing the run, then sitting in the lane waiting to run again it just ends up being a while. Thats where you can shut down, run your fan and electric water pump and cool down. I don't bother shutting down since it doesnt help me cool down anyways, at least in the staging lanes.
My fan is a Spal 16in fan. it wasnt that cheap, but no, it doesnt draw 20 amps.
I think that if I figure out my water circulation method and let it rest a tad between runs it will cool down nicely.
 
12many said:
Something like this? There are similar pumps that you plumb in at the lower radiator hose also. Search enough and you’ll find something ideal. Turbo car applications seem to be another source of info regarding these type pumps.

View attachment 1715604611
Click to expand...
That does look good. I wonder that when its connected to the radiator hose, but not running, does it allow fluid to run right through it?
I know some electric fuel pumps will do that, if you want to hook one up in line with a mechanical for easier starts, but not all of them do it.
 
ChuckDock said:
Actually, I'm probably wrong on the 15 minutes to cool. After a lap, my car sometimes didnt even reach 190 and the fan never came on, its just the hot lapping that heats it up. Between doing the run, then sitting in the lane waiting to run again it just ends up being a while. Thats where you can shut down, run your fan and electric water pump and cool down. I don't bother shutting down since it doesnt help me cool down anyways, at least in the staging lanes.
My fan is a Spal 16in fan. it wasnt that cheap, but no, it doesnt draw 20 amps.
I think that if I figure out my water circulation method and let it rest a tad between runs it will cool down nicely.
Click to expand...

if it doesnt draw 20 amps( minimum), it isnt moving much air.
They( spal) make 4 different 16 inch fans with low cfm and amps
Two draw 8.5, the other two both draw 13. None of them move much air.
Assuming you are right, you must have one of these....If what you have doesn't draw 20 amps
If that is the case, you need a real fan
 
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