big block vs. smal block

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I really don't know enought to talk about this intelligently but was told this on this board when I was talking about my friend sticking a 440 in his scamp..

However, I suspect that gas mileage will be different..and lastly, crowds are fickle..one day they like this and another day something else...I was to a mustang show..everything from a 65 to an 09..some really nice cars..best of show ? a stock 09 bullet..honk !

Ian.
 
Nope, gas mileage is similar, too. My stock 340/727/3.23 geared GTS convertible gets a best of 14-15mpg on the highway and 10-12mpg in town. My son's 440/4sp/3.23 geared GT convertible gets about the same. Some of that is due to the "reformulated" fuel we have to run here in California. The GTS used to get 17 on the highway back in the 80s with a 73 shortblock (8.5:1 motor) vs. the more recent with the 70 shortblock (10.5:1 motor).

The 440 is getting a little tired now and only gets about 12mpg on the highway, but it'll get freshened one day. I am considering 2.94 gears for my Barracuda in an effort for higher-teens on the highway from the 440 I am installing.
 
Jim Lusk said:
Nope, gas mileage is similar, too. My stock 340/727/3.23 geared GTS convertible gets a best of 14-15mpg on the highway and 10-12mpg in town. My son's 440/4sp/3.23 geared GT convertible gets about the same. Some of that is due to the "reformulated" fuel we have to run here in California. The GTS used to get 17 on the highway back in the 80s with a 73 shortblock (8.5:1 motor) vs. the more recent with the 70 shortblock (10.5:1 motor)...
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what?
i had a 74rr that came with a 360 (bout 40k on the clock, all stock) 4sp. got around 18mpg on the hiway.
I swapped it out for a 74 440(stock) with the same milage, and the best it could muster was about 11-
12mph hiway. both engines were in a very good state of tune.
 
grassy said:
I really don't know enought to talk about this intelligently but was told this on this board when I was talking about my friend sticking a 440 in his scamp..

However, I suspect that gas mileage will be different..and lastly, crowds are fickle..one day they like this and another day something else...I was to a mustang show..everything from a 65 to an 09..some really nice cars..best of show ? a stock 09 bullet..honk !

Ian.
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whoever is in this hobby, and concerned about gas milage needs to re-think there hobby.

If they go small block because they can save some gas compared to a big block..whats stopping them from going small block to import 4 Cyle?

Nothing

Phil
 
figured you you push for 4cyl DOMESTIC product over an import...
not about fuel economy... i just don't believe that stock for stock
a 440 vs 340 or even the Hi-Perf 360's (which has all the go fast 340 parts)
get the same fuel economy.
 
360Z28 said:
figured you you push for 4cyl DOMESTIC product over an import...
not about fuel economy... i just don't believe that stock for stock
a 440 vs 340 or even the Hi-Perf 360's (which has all the go fast 340 parts)
get the same fuel economy.
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You don't have to believe it, but it is a fact IN MY CASE. I have owned my GTS convertible since 1983. With the fuel of the 80s it got a best of 17mpg on the highway. With the fuel of the 90s-today it is worse. I put the first 440/4sp Dart on the road in late 1997. Same highway mileage as the GTS. Those are just the facts. We have garbage reformulated fuel here in California that is DOCUMENTED to reduce fuel economy. Just the way it is.
 
Ive got a 500 wedge with mild cam and stock heads and it gets beat by two stroker small blocks all day long one a 408 and the other is a 426, but than agian I dont have a wild cam or aluminum heads on it either. For street ability stroker small block with a nice matched Torque convertor and 3:91's out back.
 
rgreule said:
ok so i am getting mixed reviews on what is better.. i know to some its a opinion, or bigger is better.. but to others they would rather has the small block or whatever.. what would be a better route for the people who cant afford to build a badass motor and would like their car to run good but not be a complete slug..
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I think this is agetting to be a big block VS small block thread. It's Not what he is asking.

Your answer is...

1. Don't touch the car if you don't have the money! just drive it and love it for what it is.

2. Save up and plan for what you want. When you think you have enough, Save up another $1500.

3. If you want a quick fix and get a pepy motor for a low buck buy a 360 and drop-er-in.

4. If you can spend lots of money than it just comes to personal preferance. ( built small block VS Built Big block.)

5. If you want a coolness factor that you can't get with a small block, then get a big block. I have a small handfull of cars, and nothing gets more attention than when I pop the hood on my 440 duster. I think Jim allready said his sons big block dart gets more attention than his nice 340 car. Its just a fact. the only thing that will call more attention to your car than a big block is a turbo or superchaged SB.

The question is what you want to do, and have for a car. You can get into a whole other debate when you ask how much it will cost....I say that because you say " the people that can't afford a badass motor..."

Phil

My first vote for a quick cheap fix...360
 
rgreule said:
ok so i am getting mixed reviews on what is better.. i know to some its a opinion, or bigger is better.. but to others they would rather has the small block or whatever.. what would be a better route for the people who cant afford to build a badass motor and would like their car to run good but not be a complete slug..
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Big block, small block, that`s kinda' like being asked which one of your children is your favorite. :toothy10:
 
i like the big blocks myself, but with an a-body i think that you need to change more suspension parts and things to get the same handling out of em as you would a small block IMO. but for fun and cool factors BB all the way. but as stated above if you have no money right now just wait and have fun til you can afford it.
 
scampy72 said:
i like the big blocks myself, but with an a-body i think that you need to change more suspension parts and things to get the same handling out of em as you would a small block IMO. quote]

I also have to say that a big block swap will cost more than a small block swap, although I know Mr. Lusk is going to dissagrea on me with this one. a bare bones 360 upgrade would be cheaper than a bare bones BB upgrade by about $1000. IMHO

Have to take into consideration the cost differences between a BB and SB.

Phil
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Me I'm a big block kind of guy o yea and a hemi 4 speed with a dana

17.jpg


my 440+ duster 002 (Small).jpg
 
The trans costs the same. The differential costs the same. Big blocks are cheap. I've gotten complete 440s for free on Craigslist. A V8 K-frame with discs are $200 to $250--same price if running a small block. B-body HP manifolds for $150. 340 manifolds go for $500 to $800 plus $130 for the drivers side gasket alone. Why were big blocks made in the first place?
 
I was always under the impression that for a street machine torque is what you want. So by that assumption I would say that a mild big block would give you the torque, smooth idle, good vacuum, and overall excellent street manners that a more radical small block could ever give you. But I come from the generation that would grab a motor, mill the heads, put in an RV cam, and off you go to the strip!!!!!!!! So who knows.
 
375inStroke said:
The trans costs the same. The differential costs the same. Big blocks are cheap. I've gotten complete 440s for free on Craigslist. A V8 K-frame with discs are $200 to $250--same price if running a small block. B-body HP manifolds for $150. 340 manifolds go for $500 to $800 plus $130 for the drivers side gasket alone. Why were big blocks made in the first place?
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In Seatle..Yes, But I am just north of the boarder of you, and the cost difference would be about $1000.

But you are not compairing manifolds to maniforlds. a BB manifold is $150 (where you live) but a 360 manifold is FREE. don't cmpair it to a 340 manifold. apples and orranges Bugs me when someone compairs a 340 to a 440. There are way more 440's than 340's better comparison is 440-360 or something like that.

Just depends on where you live too. depends the costs. BB manifolds up here go for $200-$500

Phil
 
I was always under the impression that for a street machine torque is what you want. So by that assumption I would say that a mild big block would give you the torque, smooth idle, good vacuum, and overall excellent street manners that a more radical small block could ever give you.
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yup.. thats how i feel too.
 
LJS30 said:
I was always under the impression that for a street machine torque is what you want. So by that assumption I would say that a mild big block would give you the torque, smooth idle, good vacuum, and overall excellent street manners that a more radical small block could ever give you. But I come from the generation that would grab a motor, mill the heads, put in an RV cam, and off you go to the strip!!!!!!!! So who knows.
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Then there's the lumpy rumble at idle and the roar when she comes up to full song. Read that somewhere, I think it discribes a BB.

Terry
 
mrtires24 said:
In Seatle..Yes, But I am just north of the boarder of you, and the cost difference would be about $1000.

But you are not compairing manifolds to maniforlds. a BB manifold is $150 (where you live) but a 360 manifold is FREE. don't cmpair it to a 340 manifold. apples and orranges Bugs me when someone compairs a 340 to a 440. There are way more 440's than 340's better comparison is 440-360 or something like that.

Just depends on where you live too. depends the costs. BB manifolds up here go for $200-$500

Phil
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I guess you have a point. I think it sucks here when I have SoCal to compare it to. I've looked on Craigslist for other cities trying to see what's out there where other people live, trying to help them find parts, and you're right. There is a lot more in Seattle, and even more in the Los Angeles area. I don't know how guys in Europe keep their Mopars on the road.
 
grassy said:
I am told that you can make a 360 more powerful than a BB and have the weight savings..360s are still plentiful and you can get just abount anything (power wise) for them..my vote 360 :)
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That all depends how much money you want to spend on the SB, but I'll guarantee ya that if you spend the same amount on the BB there is no comparison. I've built 600 HP BB's that can be driven on the street. It takes some doing to keep from melting down the street tires but it can be done as long your gas tank is big enough and you've got a well thought out engine cooling system. Now with the stroker kits available off the shelf the skies the limit, it just comes down to how much do you want to spend. That's twice I said that I guess it's for a good reason. Sadly it's not what you put under the hood that makes or breaks a build it's everything else that must be in balance to put the HP/Torque to the ground. Stuff like suspension, tranny, stall converter, rear gears and traction setup (eg. caltracs) and don't forget the tires and brakes cuss at some point in time ya got to stop her.:toothy10:

Terry
 
375inStroke said:
I guess you have a point. I think it sucks here when I have SoCal to compare it to. I've looked on Craigslist for other cities trying to see what's out there where other people live, trying to help them find parts, and you're right. There is a lot more in Seattle, and even more in the Los Angeles area. I don't know how guys in Europe keep their Mopars on the road.
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I know I'm right ;)

what I mean is, I bought my duster as a roller good body, but NO interior. 3 spd manual tranny in the trunk, and a rebuilt 440 on the shop floor for $1500 from Sumner WA. was in it for another $500 in duties and trailer rental. But once it was in my back yard I had some people offering me $5,000 as it sits. Cars just north of you sell for way more. I am always looking on Seattles craigslist. doubt there is a car on there that I have not seen.

a big block 440 can sell up here for $1000 no prob, but a 360 will go for about $500 or less. Just a fact up here. and good luck finding a BB tranny too. your pretty luckey in Seattle.

Phil
 
I believe my son and I have a good comparison, as we both run very similar times in the quarter. Mine is a 73 Dart Sport with a 440 +.030 with a balanced stroker rotating assembly bringing it to 512 cu.in. It has 10.5:1 compression, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, and intake. Pro System 950HP carb, Comp 585 lift cam, and Schumacker TriY headers into 2.5" exhaust. Behind that is a 3500 stall converter to a 727 trans. Out back is a narrowed 8.75 with 3.55 gears and minitubbed. The car is very docile on the street and runs on pump gas. My son has a 70 Dart Swinger with a 360 block with a balanced stroker rotating assembly bringing it to 408cu.in. It has 13.8:1 compression, highly modified Eddy Performer RPM heads, a modified Airgap Intake, Pro System carb. Mechanical roller cam (unsure of specs.) Hooker supercomp headers to 3" exhaust. Behind that is a modified 4-speed back to a 8.75 with 4.10 gears, and minitubbed. His car is nowhere near as streetable as mine and needs to run at least 110 octane gas.

chris_n_rick_posing_with_darts.jpg
 
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