Big smallblock power..Turbo?

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mshred

mshred

The Green Manalishi
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Hey guys,

this is a purely hypothetical question...My only concern right now is getting the scamp on the road and running fine, but i cant help but look into different ideas for redoing my motor when the time comes for it...Lately i have been really fascinated by turbo setups and the ability to make a TON of power while still being able to run pump gas- perfect for me who plans on keeping his mopar 90% street use...but then all the costs to actually complete a turbo setup (turbos themselves, fuel system, carb, exhaust manifolds/headers, etc.) and it seems that even if i was to go with a junkyard turbo setup and fabricate a ton of stuff on my own instead of buying it, i would still be in for a lot of money...and that doesnt include upgrading other things that may break from the new found power (all that turbo torque will kill my tranny for sure meaning new tranny or g force rebuild, new rearend depending if the current one holds, etc.)...Then i think about building up the 340 to be an all motor car (keep in mind here that when i rebuild my motor i would like the car to be a high 11s or faster vehicle) but it seems that after pricing the rotating assembly for a stroker, plus the machine shop work, the radical cam and compression im going to need (or not? am i totally wrong here) and the streetability factor all start to fade that idea away too...I mean im a broke 19 year old building his first mopar, so really i should be happy with what i have, but i cant help but think of the future...Im interested to hear whether you guys think its smarter to invest the money in a turbo setup for this future goal with the ability to just increase performance as nescessary or if im better off just building the motor NA style to reach this same goal (being high 11's and street driven with a 5 speed)..I dont know if this is really a question or more of me just unloading from whats on my mind lately, but either way im interested in what you guys have to say

Peace:read2:
Matthew
 
You should follow along with this guys thread:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=49548

IMHO, he is setting it up for ALOT of fun and although he has a nice budget (on the parts he has already purchased), the same can be done on a more effecient budget and get close to the same results.

He also has a thread going on the most popular Turbo V-Eight Website...
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120629.0

And there is ANOTHER mopar owner doing up a Dart turbo build:
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120439.0


I personally think its a great idea....I would use a good ole' low compression 318 as the initial foundation (I wouldn't even crack the valve covers/Oil Pan off) and later build a special 360 to shoehorn into the ready to go Turbo System Engine Bay.

At 14.7 psi, a turbo can DOUBLE the Hp/Tq, the same Naturally Aspirated engine made....so figure it like this...300 crank horsepower can be doubled to 600 crank horsepower with boost....its relatively safe...run good fuel and always make sure your Wastegate is dialed in, and I hear of people running big numbers on stock Cast Piston/Crank bottom ends all the time.

I say DO IT!

Good Luck.
 
I would go with the paxton setup. Basically the same idea except crank driven. Thats what I have and was running 12 lbs boost on cast crank and rods before deciding to go more. Plus you buy a kit and most everything is already figured out for you.
 
Prine said:
You should follow along with this guys thread:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=49548

IMHO, he is setting it up for ALOT of fun and although he has a nice budget (on the parts he has already purchased), the same can be done on a more effecient budget and get close to the same results.

He also has a thread going on the most popular Turbo V-Eight Website...
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120629.0

And there is ANOTHER mopar owner doing up a Dart turbo build:
http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120439.0


I personally think its a great idea....I would use a good ole' low compression 318 as the initial foundation (I wouldn't even crack the valve covers/Oil Pan off) and later build a special 360 to shoehorn into the ready to go Turbo System Engine Bay.

At 14.7 psi, a turbo can DOUBLE the Hp/Tq, the same Naturally Aspirated engine made....so figure it like this...300 crank horsepower can be doubled to 600 crank horsepower with boost....its relatively safe...run good fuel and always make sure your Wastegate is dialed in, and I hear of people running big numbers on stock Cast Piston/Crank bottom ends all the time.

I say DO IT!

Good Luck.
Click to expand...

Hey Prine,

I just finished reading all three of those links before i posted LOL..trust me i have been looking...i figured if i go with a turbo setup i would definatly run a 360, stock stroke and maybe a .30 overbore with a forged rotating assembly (or maybe try and find a freshly rebuilt used one with forged internals and say 8.5:1 compression)...It just seems like there is ALOT of money to be spent...i realize almost all of a turbo setup is planning and that it is not a bolt on ordeal or some easy feat to accomplish...as you saw in the link of the yellow dart, there was a lot of custom fab work going on there...if i wasnt able to do it all myself it would cost one huge chunk of money...boost is tempting...=P~
 
I have a little SRT4 caliber that has a teeny weeny 2.4 litre 4 banger and a 6 speed.

I troll for mustang GT's on the highway and when I find them I always play with there emotions.......they hate me.

Turbo is crazy power on top......I can go from dead stop at the top of the freeway entrance to 120 @ 5000 rpms in 4th by the bottom and i still have 2 gears.

You will love it if you are a highway demon.

IF you like smoke and noise and simplified maintenance then you can't go wrong with a 340.
 
Also since you are a broke 19yr old you should really consider building a LOW MAINTENANCE vehicle and concentrate on the mechanics and body before you worry about building a radical street machine that I can guarantee you will DRAIN YOUR WALLET IN 11.00 seconds flat.

Once again a stock 340 is a BADASS street motor for anyone and will get you speeding tickets in 11.00 seconds or less.

Don't believe me......chime in guys.
 
momoparman said:
Also since you are a broke 19yr old you should really consider building a LOW MAINTENANCE vehicle and concentrate on the mechanics and body before you worry about building a radical street machine that I can guarantee you will DRAIN YOUR WALLET IN 11.00 seconds flat.

Once again a stock 340 is a BADASS street motor for anyone and will get you speeding tickets in 11.00 seconds or less.

Don't believe me......chime in guys.
Click to expand...

thanks but i already have direction for my build....this is for future upgrades, just thinking ahead right now..I know the 340 that i have is more than enough...this will be my daily driver car in the summer months (oh and the body is already done if you havent seen my avatar) and when i dont drive this i have a 200 dollar beater car that is a yuppy on gas to get me around...it really doesnt matter how old i am to judge my need for speed since i work for everything i have done to this car and am in quite a comfortable financial situation, i just probably wont be doing motor rebuilds and stuff when im done which is what im referring to when i say broke...i will have to wait a while till i can do this stuff im mentioning, probably atleast a couple years...oh and a stock 340 isnt enough for me:-D stock anything isnt
 
PS

When you say your broke then that your in a comfortable financial situation in another It gets a bit confusing. Sorry aboot the misunderstanding eh?

You crazy Canadians and your wacky language.:toothy10:
 
mshred said:
thanks but i already have direction for my build....this is for future upgrades, just thinking ahead right now..I know the 340 that i have is more than enough...this will be my daily driver car in the summer months (oh and the body is already done if you havent seen my avatar) and when i dont drive this i have a 200 dollar beater car that is a yuppy on gas to get me around...it really doesnt matter how old i am to judge my need for speed since i work for everything i have done to this car and am in quite a comfortable financial situation, i just probably wont be doing motor rebuilds and stuff when im done which is what im referring to when i say broke...i will have to wait a while till i can do this stuff im mentioning, probably atleast a couple years...oh and a stock 340 isnt enough for me:-D stock anything isnt
Click to expand...
That piss cutter you had in my driveway sure looked stock!HaHa!J/K
And yes a stock 340 will get you some unwanted attention,ecspeacialy a 4 speed!
 
Hammer down hosers......see ye at the finish line eh?

Keep building.....turbos are cool no doubt.

Make sure to put in a center E brake so you can really enjoy it.......sideways at 5500 RPM or KPHPMS....? Metric Help Please!

Check out RMS suspension.... Rack and pinion? Say no more.

hope you know its all in fun.

Have a great holiday all...we are.:cheers::snakeman::bootysha::toothy10::angry7::stop:

Mop
 
wow this post was taken totally out of context....i really dont care to know what you think a stock 340 will do for me...it has nothing to do with what i asked...the question was actually quite far off from that...and yes i am in a comfortable financial situation right now but when the car is done and on the road i will be broke (which is when i plan to do either one of these mods, when its on the road)...also, im not into pro touring...read my sig line- can you understand it south of our border? eh? anyways, back to the original post which was power potential between strokers and turbos and what you guys think of each
 
pettybludart said:
That piss cutter you had in my driveway sure looked stock!HaHa!J/K
And yes a stock 340 will get you some unwanted attention,ecspeacialy a 4 speed!
Click to expand...

well scott, when it comes to my "LOW MAINTENANCE AND RELIABLE" cars stock is fine for me...and no 4 speed here, its a 5 and will stay a five
 
Hope your not taking my comment serious,was just kidding about your stock 3 cylinder car!It is Sat.nite,just having a little fun!How is the car coming?Any new pics.?Motor and tranny in?Interior?When do you think you,ll have it out?I know squat about turbo,s!
 
pettybludart said:
Hope your not taking my comment serious,was just kidding about your stock 3 cylinder car!It is Sat.nite,just having a little fun!How is the car coming?Any new pics.?Motor and tranny in?Interior?When do you think you,ll have it out?I know squat about turbo,s!
Click to expand...

I know (its actually 4 lol)...the car is coming, just finishing up school now so soon i can work on it more (have to study for stupid exams at the moment)...im hoping by August she'll be out, but we'll see what happens
 
Turbo and a 5 speed sounds like fun to me.
I get on turboforums quite a bit and can tell you that there is a lot of good running smallblocks cars and trucks on there.
My personal reason for going turbo on my duster was seeing all the power and streetablility of turbocharging. I have a custom turbo grind in my 440 that idles like stock and will be running a 3.55 gearset with an overdrive A518 in it. I am going to EFI next for total streetablility. There is a guy with a purple challenger with 500ci big block turbo that was cranking out 800+ wheel horsepower and was getting 18 mpg on the highway with efi and a 5 speed.
 
With a turbo you can also do what some of the TurboDiesel guys do, add an exhaust brake (2 with twins).
Then you can spool the turbo up while sitting and turn on the EB to build intake/exhaust pressure before launch, then release the EB as you leave the line with some RPMs up.
A bit harder on turbos, but I know it works.

Sorta' works like a variable Supercharger.

Mark.
 
Assuming this is a street driven car that you can drive further than 1 block -

Turbo or 4" stroker - either will reward the $$ input vs the frustrations and street un-friendlyness of making a smaller cube NA motor run the #s...

Here's a buddy if mine's 318 Twin Turbo 318 with EFI and a MP .520 lift cam.

Heads are smogger 360s with $500 worth of port work LOL!!

Made 630 FWHP on the dyno. Comp is 7.8:1. Best qtr MPH is 132 mph / 3500lb car (you do the math)

3.5 gears - 727 - Street driven car, he takes it to the shops and to work..

Biggest problem? Traction. He runs 295/15s and can't make a 1-2 change at more than 1/2 throttle on the street without the rear end getting squirrely..


UNI_2447-1-1.jpg
 
blown71duster said:
Turbo and a 5 speed sounds like fun to me.
I get on turboforums quite a bit and can tell you that there is a lot of good running smallblocks cars and trucks on there.
My personal reason for going turbo on my duster was seeing all the power and streetablility of turbocharging. I have a custom turbo grind in my 440 that idles like stock and will be running a 3.55 gearset with an overdrive A518 in it. I am going to EFI next for total streetablility. There is a guy with a purple challenger with 500ci big block turbo that was cranking out 800+ wheel horsepower and was getting 18 mpg on the highway with efi and a 5 speed.
Click to expand...

Yes i have been looking around alot on that site recently but i still have ALOT of learning to do about it...The option seems very attractive for the future, just for the fact that you can make gobs of power and run pump gas, and with a 5 speed get good mileage...all definatly what im after

Mark Nixon said:
With a turbo you can also do what some of the TurboDiesel guys do, add an exhaust brake (2 with twins).
Then you can spool the turbo up while sitting and turn on the EB to build intake/exhaust pressure before launch, then release the EB as you leave the line with some RPMs up.
A bit harder on turbos, but I know it works.

Sorta' works like a variable Supercharger.

Mark.
Click to expand...

thats a cool idea...ive never heard of anyone doing that before in a race application though...i wonder

Moparmal said:
Assuming this is a street driven car that you can drive further than 1 block -

Turbo or 4" stroker - either will reward the $$ input vs the frustrations and street un-friendlyness of making a smaller cube NA motor run the #s...

Here's a buddy if mine's 318 Twin Turbo 318 with EFI and a MP .520 lift cam.

Heads are smogger 360s with $500 worth of port work LOL!!

Made 630 FWHP on the dyno. Comp is 7.8:1. Best qtr MPH is 132 mph / 3500lb car (you do the math)

3.5 gears - 727 - Street driven car, he takes it to the shops and to work..

Biggest problem? Traction. He runs 295/15s and can't make a 1-2 change at more than 1/2 throttle on the street without the rear end getting squirrely..


UNI_2447-1-1.jpg
Click to expand...

WOw man your friend has a nice setup going on there...can you tell me more about it? (Is it blow thru, what turbos, forged internals, etc.)..and yes my car will be almost daily driven when the weather is nice as in its my car to get me everywhere unless id rather drive my beater lol
 
momoparman said:
Also since you are a broke 19yr old you should really consider building a LOW MAINTENANCE vehicle and concentrate on the mechanics and body before you worry about building a radical street machine that I can guarantee you will DRAIN YOUR WALLET IN 11.00 seconds flat.

Once again a stock 340 is a BADASS street motor for anyone and will get you speeding tickets in 11.00 seconds or less.

Don't believe me......chime in guys.
Click to expand...

Stock 340 running 11.00's..i'd like to see that...
 
stroked 340 said:
Stock 340 running 11.00's..i'd like to see that...
Click to expand...

i was thinking the same thing, but didnt say anything since i wanted to get the thread back on track...I wouldnt be asking bout turbos or strokers if that was the case...starting to sound like mustang guys saying that a 340 will run 11 stock :-D
 
Turbos are definitely power makers. The plumbing and the mapping of the fuel curve for the EFI are probably the most challenging. A centrifugal supercharger would get you there a lot cheaper and simpler I'd think since the kits are already worked out and you can use a carb if need be for simplicity. I'd do that before I did a stroker, or maybe a supercharged stroker?

Just a thought to consider.
 
Guitar Jones said:
Turbos are definitely power makers. The plumbing and the mapping of the fuel curve for the EFI are probably the most challenging. A centrifugal supercharger would get you there a lot cheaper and simpler I'd think since the kits are already worked out and you can use a carb if need be for simplicity. I'd do that before I did a stroker, or maybe a supercharged stroker?

Just a thought to consider.
Click to expand...

I would definatly go with a blow through setup...I dont have the cash for the efi system (fuel system stuff for a turbo setup blow through will probably cost me about 1k alone)...a turbo would take a lot planning, calculating and patience before it actually happens for me...however, i think id be better off starting with a 360 or 318 if i was to go turbo, since they already yeild a lower cr than my 340 (10.5:1) and i can still run pump gas (of main importance to me)
 
I've seen carbs used with turbos too. Tried it on my Dart, but the used carb I started with had issues. I've found EFI fuel mapping to be a bit easier than getting the correct air/fuel ratio out of a carb under both boost and cruise. With EFI you can change the mapping on a running engine at full throttle, make data logs of the air/fuel ratios and sensor readings, and have a lot of other tools that are trickier to apply to a carb. It is a bit more learning involved than basic carb jetting, but simpler than trying to figure out some of the details of how a carb could be optimized to work under boost.
 
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