Bitter learning curve. Absolutely DONE with carburetors!!!

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1)the idle would have been rich, and black smoke present if it were dumping that
fuel from the carb levels/fuel press. too high.
2)mechanical pump diaphram fails are old hat,they don't all just "rupture",they can
simply develop a pinhole or small tear and pump/spray fuel out of the topside.Sometimes
it comes out the housing breather port,sometimes into your engine.The pump is capable
of pumping way more than your eng can use simply driving around,so you would not notice
a thing wrong,usually the smell or a spot in the driveway is the first clue.
3)in the "good old days"this has happened and the owner came to me because he
"couldn't get the carb to adjust",....rite.Because the oil was full of fuel getting sucked up
by the PCV and sent to the intake,...oh it's rich all right.New pump and an oil change and
rite thru the old sniffer test.
4)I'm glad You're going to inspect it,NO noise is "normal",and that oil press is just
unacceptable on an older engine in good cond.,let alone a fresh one,good luck!!
:coffee2:
 
Not sure where four plugs came in to the picture, all my plugs have been consistent. I took a stethoscope and tracked it down today, it's most pronounced when I put the probe on the fuel pump, so maybe bad fuel pump, or number 2 cylinder??? Anybody ever heard a fuel pump knock? I'll just change the dam thing this weekend to rule it out. I'm also going to cut the filter open to see what we have in there. It gets an oil change this weekend anyway, but I'll open the filter to see if I'd be wasting money on the oil change. I also have a set of plugs waiting to go in so Ill get pics of those as well. I sure hope this doesn't turn out to be bearings! I'm still getting FiTech, lol!
 
I also agree with the oil pressure being unacceptable,I turned the idle up a tad to about 750rpms and the pressure sits at 7psi, it was 45 psi at cold start but quickly dropped as the oil warmed.
 
Everybody has good input in this thread, but I am gonna cut right to the chase.....Knocking bottom end, Low oil pressure, and grey material in the oil........I think the bearings are toasted....Let us know what you find
 
One other thing, I found the oil pressure gauge in the car did not work when I did the break-in, I didn't get around to replacing it for the first 20 miles or so. After the oil incident I had the new one installed and working, so I don't know if the pressure dropped or started out this way, that would have been some really helpful info.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Everybody has good input in this thread, but I am gonna cut right to the chase.....Knocking bottom end, Low oil pressure, and grey material in the oil........I think the bearings are toasted....Let us know what you find
Click to expand...

This is my worry, and I can just hope I'm wrong.
 
PhillH said:
Not sure where four plugs came in to the picture, all my plugs have been consistent. !
Click to expand...


post *8 must have been attributed to you

nm9stheham said:
FI can be tuned wrong and lead to rich or lean problems so seriously, carb or FI is not really the issue. Unfortunately, the issue was not caught in time, but likely due to your just being new to things.... it happens when you are new and are learning, and even experts muck it up once in a while. You had an unusually large amount of fuel leakage there if there was 2 extra qts of fuel in there! The carb had to be flooding or the pump diaphragm leaking as mentioned. With more experience, I am sure you would have caught it sooner and things would have been different.

BTW, we had light seepage from the primary fuel needle & seat in a recent new 340 startup. Drove the new engine 20 miles after break-in... pulled plugs and found the front 4 plugs very rich, which lead to the detection of the issue. A new Holley kit fixed it all up. That is just from knowing what to look for and being aware that we were starting with an unknown carb and to be watchful on that... all just from past experience. I would have been just as wary with a new FI system on a new engine.

Have you gotten to the point of pulling the bearings? You 'know' it is ruined bearings but this is your first build...... maybe jumping to conclusions?
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PhillH said:
One other thing, I found the oil pressure gauge in the car did not work when I did the break-in, I didn't get around to replacing it for the first 20 miles or so. After the oil incident I had the new one installed and working, so I don't know if the pressure dropped or started out this way, that would have been some really helpful info.
Click to expand...

lol, yeah, that would have told you volumes


one more thing to consider
how is the fuel pump drive?
whatever you call the oblong thing that bolts to the cam
maybe that is whats causing the racket?
 
If this doesn't turn out to be a disaster, now I'm kinda on the fence till I cut the filter this weekend, does anybody know a shop around me that you trust? One that at the least has a guy that knows tuning carbs and timing really well, a chasis dyno would be a plus.
Tampa, Hernando Florida.
 
I have had a /6 fuel pump knock like a piston pin was going bad.... so it does happen. It was loudest rigth on the pump body.

But the oil pressure situation is of concern. When you did get the oil pressure gauge installed and hooked up after 20 or so miles, was the oil pressure where it is now? With the current situation, it would behoove you to get another oil pressure gauge and double check the oil pressure.

BTW, I locked up a motor once because I was in too much of a hurry before the next race and did not hook up the oil pressure gauge.... so you are not alone.

As for the grey stuff on the dipstick, this is the motor that has been running waaaay below normal temps right. like 140-150-160 F? Did that new Stant t'stat ever get put in?
 
Yes, I know I should verify the gauge, the money just keeps flying out the window. I had to get a gauge to fix the gauge that didn't work that was there to verify the idiot light, now I have to get a gauge to verify the gauge that was suposed to be the gauge. LOL!!!
 
Welcome to the club.....LOL. My son's new 340 suddenly just lost 5-6 degrees of ignition timing last night...no visible reason as to why but we suspect the barely used Profrom distributor that we got in a box with the car. So new distributor will be coming. As well as a NOS PCV to replace a the one that does not seal right at idle...
 
Uh oh,... So your saying the PVC needs to seal at the valve cover tightly? Not that I have that issue... Just asking.
 
PhillH said:
Uh oh,... So your saying the PVC needs to seal at the valve cover tightly? Not that I have that issue... Just asking.
Click to expand...
It should to be fully effective in pulling out oil vapors. Our issue is that it does not restrict flow properly at idle and looks to be disrupting idle mixture some; just old I suspect. Google 'pcv valve operation'
 
Phill, If I can be of any help pm me for my number. Pagan Performance Hudson,Fl.
 
Well I have some very good news, I cut the oil filter open,....Drum Roll...
NOTHING, not even the smallest piece of metal. I expeceted to see some metallic residue and maybe some small specs, nothing. Fantastic!!! Also those K&N filters are made of some thick metal, tough as nails.
 
That's great, now some careful investigation and loads of caution to gain confidence and knowledge to solve the rest of the issues, sounds like there are a few. The advice that's been given here is largely pretty sound. make sure... SURE, that you touch all the bases before moving on.
 
Good news indeed.

Now break out that stethescope, leave the needle off, and with the engine running,, start moving the "trumpet" end of the scope around, and follow the "noise" you hear to an area,, then put needle on, and start touching the block in areas closest to the noise, touch the needle to the fuel pump, and timing cover. That should get you very close to the source..

PS, touch the needle to the front and back of alt and w/pump, and "hear" the bearings turn..

CAUTION around moving parts !!
 
And I would drain all the oil into a squeaky clean pan at this point and examine it carefully. You have enough issues to not leave any stone unturned.
 
I couldn't believe it was that clea so after let the filter media sit and drain awhile I had another look, there it is, the oily film was making it hard to see and I could not feel anything between my fingers. I'ts very small specks that could be from just a new engine breaking in. So I've drain all the oil into a clean pan last night and pulled the fuel pump, I'll check the oil this morning after it's all settled, the pump is working and hard to press the lever but it does make a ckicking sound, we will see if the new one makes the same noise today. If it turns out safe to run after the new pump and oil today I'll be taking it to Rick Pagans next week for an expert opinion, thanks Rick!
 
Update on the oil I left it sit all night and slowly poured it off, nothing on the bottom.
The paticals in the filter were so small I can barely see them, any smaller and it would be powder, I ran a clean magnet over/in between all the filter media, it is magnetic and I really had to go over alot of it to see any at all, almost powder. So that is good news so far. I'm off the get the fuel pump.
 
I've got the oil and filter changed, just have to get the fuel pump on. The new one makes the same sound as the old one but the lever is alot harder to manipulate. Fingers crossed.
 
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