Brake Conversion

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Rick thanks for posting-good info here. I want to change my 65 to discs this winter and am looking at a Wilwood conversion for the front, maybe the back too and was curious what you did. I am also going to use a dual bowl master cylinder for safety in case I "spring a leak" but was wondering what you did. Frankly I don't want to fabricate new brake lines for the M/C and was wondering if you used a break line kit-I now know that answer! Does anyone know if there is a kit for line change to dual master cylinder?
Thanks
Bob
 
Rick thanks for posting-good info here. I want to change my 65 to discs this winter and am looking at a Wilwood conversion for the front, maybe the back too and was curious what you did. I am also going to use a dual bowl master cylinder for safety in case I "spring a leak" but was wondering what you did. Frankly I don't want to fabricate new brake lines for the M/C and was wondering if you used a break line kit-I now know that answer! Does anyone know if there is a kit for line change to dual master cylinder? Thanks Bob

Bob
So I used a 76 Dodge Dart slider style. But I had my rotors machined for small bolt pattern 5x4 Which was a good kit except 14 inch wheels have some clearance issues. I had to grind a bit. So first would be the rim what size are you using? If your good with a 15 inch rim you have endless possibilities with brake systems. Most places only off 5 x 4 1/2 bolt pattern which means you may want to change your rear.

Master cylinder. So my car is all stock I kept the original single circuit and replicated the Kelsey-Hayes set up. Since your going with wilwood, they will hook you up with distribution block and a residual valve if you need it.

As for lines.... Inline tube will make you a custom set if your putting the proportioning valve in the stock location. I did use inline tube for mine everything worked except the master to the distribution block, they sent me a manual brake and I have power, but they are working to make me one. But honestly everything on the lines are the same going to the wheels, it's just the new prop valve and a second line coming down from the master.

So... On my 65 signet I have 76 dart slider disk brakes big bolt pattern and 8 3/4 rear 10 inch drums. Dual circuit brakes, manual. Car stops great! Has the 76 dart proportioning valve. All the pieces are easy at a junk yard, the only thing you really need are the upper control arms, spindles, caliper holder, dust shields. Everything else just about you can get at Napa oh and a rear end.
 
This discussion got me looking in my 65 Parts catalog and on page 5-8A the catalog lists Master Cylinder (Disc Brakes) - All Except Belvedere, Coronet and Imperial and shows a picture of the single master cylinder, then a gasket, then another part called a plate, then the additional reservoir. I can scan and post the page if anyone is interested in seeing it. The brake section does not list any disc brakes for the Imperial but does show 4 piston Budd calipers for the big Dodge, Plymouth and Chrysler. From the info I first listed, it appears the big C Bodies used the same extended master cylinder. One thing I noticed is that there's no part number listed for the additional reservoir. Would I use it? Absolutely not unless I were doing a complete nuts and bolts OEM restoration for judging like Ulf did.

This got me curious, so I looked it up in my 65 Parts catalog and as Dartman said, I also could not find the part # for just the 5-39-19 additional reservoir... BUT on page 5-15 did find 5-39-3 "CYLINDER and RESERVOIR, w/Manual Disk Brakes... P/N 2660 786" (Valiant & Dart) & P/N 2660 791 w/Disk Power Brakes (Valiant & Dart)

And, "CYLINDER and RESERVOIR, w/Power Disk Brakes, P2, D2, Police... P/N 2534 325" (Plymouth Fury, Dodge Polara. Chrysler)

The above Part Numbers are for the SINGLE Bowl reservoir MC as has been pictured on this thread with the added fluid capacity reservoir for Disk Brakes !!!

So I learned something I did not know... But I'm still glad I did the dual bowl MC upgrade when I did my front SSBC disks on my 65 Cuda...

All's good... Clif of Az.:coffee2:
 
I don't understand a person's (any person's) reluctance to fabricate new brakelines.It's such a straightforward easy job. And 50 year old lines, at least up here in Canada, are just a recipe for disaster, as many of the lower lines rust from the inside out.(Such as the loops that pass under the front stub-frames, the corners at the rear w/c's, and anywhere along the armored line that runs along, under the floor, especially towards the back). Herein lies the single-piston problem; When everything is new it's fine.But the insidious way that brakelines ( both the hardlines and the flex couplings ) fail, from the inside out...............the single piston system has no back-up plan.
You make a couple of practice double flares and you are good to go. There is no way I would pay someone else to do it. It's just too expensive that way.Unless of course you are in some way physically, not able to do it.

Now, OP, I understand your unwillingness to change this M/C on your points winning car, I do, and I can't say I wouldn't do the same. I would just make real sure, really, really sure all the lines were 100% ok. And I'd probably trailer it to shows, cuz I can't see into those steel lines to prove that they really,really are ok..
 
Guys my best friend has a 65 formula s with disk brakes. The prop valve and residual valve are about a foot down the fender well. It's the second set I have seen.

The car is all stock if you have ever been to Carlisle you have seen it. It's won numerous awards.

I am pretty sorry I even said anything about my conversion. I am going to let this post sit a bit then delete it.

I've got pretty thick skin. Being active duty Navy for 25 years I just don't quite understand why so many folks here can't just respect someone's opinion and move on.

Hey 64_Barracuda, Don't "delete it"... This post/thread has been great !!!

Clif of Az,:coffee2:
 
I don't understand a person's (any person's) reluctance to fabricate new brakelines.It's such a straightforward easy job. And 50 year old lines, at least up here in Canada, are just a recipe for disaster, as many of the lower lines rust from the inside out.(Such as the loops that pass under the front stub-frames, the corners at the rear w/c's, and anywhere along the armored line that runs along, under the floor, especially towards the back). Herein lies the single-piston problem; When everything is new it's fine.But the insidious way that brakelines ( both the hardlines and the flex couplings ) fail, from the inside out...............the single piston system has no back-up plan. You make a couple of practice double flares and you are good to go. There is no way I would pay someone else to do it. It's just too expensive that way.Unless of course you are in some way physically, not able to do it. Now, OP, I understand your unwillingness to change this M/C on your points winning car, I do, and I can't say I wouldn't do the same. I would just make real sure, really, really sure all the lines were 100% ok. And I'd probably trailer it to shows, cuz I can't see into those steel lines to prove that they really,really are ok..


AJ,
Oh no I changed all of my lines too, the front passenger side I had a few choice words, motor in car, no room.... I didn't have much rust on the lines or in them, car garaged most of life, Florida car.
 
Thanks Cliff ok I'll keep it up. So with your Ssbc what did you use for wheels? Curious what fits.

Rick... The stock formula "S" 5.5 x 14's would not clear (as you know) but my Mopar 14 inch Rallye did clear and worked great... but I ended up putting on 15 X 7 Mopar Rallye (sb 5 on 4)

Note that the SSBC rotors came with BOTH bolt patterns, 5 on 4 & 5 on 4.5...:D

Clif of Az.:coffee2:

If you want to see what the SSBC's/Rallye's look like, click on the "View Photos by Clifcuda65" that's under my avatar !!!
 
This has been a very informative thread Rick. Ignore the resident legends in their own minds.
Please don't delete.

Great seeing you and your Cuda Sat.

I could not find a 14 inch rim for you in my wheel stock pile. Only 13's unfortunately.

:cheers: See ya soon
Bruce
 
This has been a very informative thread Rick. Ignore the resident legends in their own minds.
Please don't delete.

Great seeing you and your Cuda Sat.

I could not find a 14 inch rim for you in my wheel stock pile. Only 13's unfortunately.

:cheers: See ya soon
Bruce

Rick, my argument was simply from one perspective. Safety. I didn't give a damn what any book said. I didn't care about any other opinions. My concern was for safety. YOURS and everyone else on the road with you.

No one can argue that a single reservoir master cylinder is more safe than a dual reservoir.

I guess I could have worked on my delivery. My apologies for that. But my mind has always said to get brakes as safe as possible, regardless of how "correct" something is.

Oh and this "resident legend" will stand toe to toe with anyone who's ready. I'm old, but there's a reason. If you want to generalize insults, have the balls to say who you're talkin about OldSchoolCuda. Don't be a sissy boy.
 
Folks seem to forget,, the feds legislated way back in the 1900s,, that a vehicle shall be equiped with a secondary mechanical brake, in case the primary (no matter how many "stages") failed.. hence the "emergency"... if you can remember how to use it.. lol
 
You are hilarious Rusty. Why would you think the oldschooler was referring to you ? Sorry your little panties got pinched.

I will unfriend you to make amends for my sissy ways. LOL.

Bruce
 
You are hilarious Rusty. Why would you think the oldschooler was referring to you ? Sorry your little panties got pinched.

I will unfriend you to make amends for my sissy ways. LOL.

Bruce


That's fine Bruce. Suit yourself. Everyone makes mistakes. I am not a mind reader. Since you weren't specific, I cannot tell. My crystal ball has been on the blink for a long time.


My only concern here was that Rick's award winning car doesn't get crumpled all to pieces and maybe worse, because of what I see as a bad decision.

Period. End of story. Nothing more.

Unfriend me all you want. That's your loss.
 
Rick... The stock formula "S" 5.5 x 14's would not clear (as you know) but my Mopar 14 inch Rallye did clear and worked great... but I ended up putting on 15 X 7 Mopar Rallye (sb 5 on 4)

Note that the SSBC rotors came with BOTH bolt patterns, 5 on 4 & 5 on 4.5...:D

Clif of Az.:coffee2:

If you want to see what the SSBC's/Rallye's look like, click on the "View Photos by Clifcuda65" that's under my avatar !!!

Cliff;
Cool man that's good to hear on the 14 inch rally's...... I didn't know there where 15inch rally with a 5x4.... now that is a sweet set up!
 
This has been a very informative thread Rick. Ignore the resident legends in their own minds.
Please don't delete.

Great seeing you and your Cuda Sat.

I could not find a 14 inch rim for you in my wheel stock pile. Only 13's unfortunately.

:cheers: See ya soon
Bruce

It was good to see you too and the new Hot Rod, glad that piece of machinery went to someone who would use it!!!! Thanks for looking for a Rim..... I'll throw one of my old slots in the trunk for now....

I'll get that grill to you when I get back.
 
Rick, my argument was simply from one perspective. Safety. I didn't give a damn what any book said. I didn't care about any other opinions. My concern was for safety. YOURS and everyone else on the road with you.

No one can argue that a single reservoir master cylinder is more safe than a dual reservoir.

I guess I could have worked on my delivery. My apologies for that. But my mind has always said to get brakes as safe as possible, regardless of how "correct" something is.

Oh and this "resident legend" will stand toe to toe with anyone who's ready. I'm old, but there's a reason. If you want to generalize insults, have the balls to say who you're talkin about OldSchoolCuda. Don't be a sissy boy.

No worries Rusty! No one asked you on your opinion on what type of Reservoir I was running. The thread was about the 76 Dart Disk Brake set up. I do hear you though, sounds like you lost someone close to you with a faulty brake system.
 
No problemo. Were all legends in our own minds to some degree or we wouldn't be in the hobby.
A lot of good info. on this thread & that's what its about.

Brakes are understatedly a touchy (no pun intended) safety subject

Bruce
 
My mind is LOCKED when it comes to brakes, tires, shocks and anything safety related. Kinda tough for me to unthink it.

I mean......if I had a car like Rick's I would hell and be damned to PUT a dual reservoir master cylinder on it regardless of any "points lost".

But I guess somethings are more important to others and that's cool too. I hope it all works out.
 
Folks seem to forget,, the feds legislated way back in the 1900s,, that a vehicle shall be equiped with a secondary mechanical brake, in case the primary (no matter how many "stages") failed.. hence the "emergency"... if you can remember how to use it.. lol

Ya know how you can tell if some ones E-brake works? Look at the handle if its cracked in half its well used!!!! Blahahaha Those dang A body brake handles crack every time!!

Mine is nice and well adjusted and well used, nice big crack in the handle!

Some other folks talked about in 66 how the feds mandated a dual circuit in all cars, I love history, would be good to see how that came to be law.......

Kind of like my awesome state with radar detectors and front license plates...... yuck.
 
Sorry Rick, I was not referring to you. It was a general comment, Hence the "Any person" addendum.
Also,but, very glad you changed the problem pipes.

Don't be sorry AJ your right! I wish I had done it when I had the motor out a few years back..... what a pain in the ***!!!! it looks ok, but could be a lot nicer, tighter against the body and firewall..... I hope to pull the Transmission after deployment in Spring of 17 for freshen up I'll re adjust then....
 
My mind is LOCKED when it comes to brakes, tires, shocks and anything safety related. Kinda tough for me to unthink it.

I mean......if I had a car like Rick's I would hell and be damned to PUT a dual reservoir master cylinder on it regardless of any "points lost".

But I guess somethings are more important to others and that's cool too. I hope it all works out.

Its worked for the last 28 years, I am pretty sure its going to be ok for the next 28
 
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