Break Pedal too high

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Dratsum

Dratsum

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Hey yall,

Got a 69 Barracuda that has a break pedal super high. With my foot just touching the gas pedal, I'd guess the brake pedal is 8-10"'s higher. It's a 3 speed auto with drums. Always been like this, I've adopted a left foot braking driving style just to have a foot closer to the brake to feel comfortable driving. Aside from that, the brakes work well. I've never worked on brakes before. I'm guessing that isn't normal.

Any thoughts as to what might be causing it? I was looking for a diagram of how the brake assembly attaches to the master cylinder to see if maybe at some point in the past a part was swapped out with something that was the wrong size. (The car came with fun hack jobs with GM parts from the past). Is there a height asjustment?

thanks / b
 
Dratsum said:
Hey yall,

Got a 69 Barracuda that has a break pedal super high. With my foot just touching the gas pedal, I'd guess the brake pedal is 8-10"'s higher. It's a 3 speed auto with drums. Always been like this, I've adopted a left foot braking driving style just to have a foot closer to the brake to feel comfortable driving. Aside from that, the brakes work well. I've never worked on brakes before. I'm guessing that isn't normal.

Any thoughts as to what might be causing it? I was looking for a diagram of how the brake assembly attaches to the master cylinder to see if maybe at some point in the past a part was swapped out with something that was the wrong size. (The car came with fun hack jobs with GM parts from the past). Is there a height asjustment?

thanks / b
Click to expand...

First of all, post a pic of the master cylinder.
Is it stock or did you change it?
 
Is there any free play in the pedal before it starts actuating the master cylinder? I've seen people put return springs on brake pedals before. They don't need one.
 
Super-Cuda said:
First of all, post a pic of the master cylinder.
Is it stock or did you change it?
Click to expand...
Not sure if it's stock.

masterCil.png
 
Mopar makes an adjustable petal pushrod for
their new style master. That should fix it but
you would need to do sway both which would be
a couple hundred. It is what I do on all my cars.
I severed my left foot Boat Racing 30 years ago and
do not have much mobility in that leg so I need to get
the petal where I could use it effectively.
 
Took some pics of the break assembly. There is rust in places I didn’t even know :p

IMG_7587.jpeg


IMG_7589.jpeg
 
Oh? Not sure if the photo is misleading. Would you say 10” with the pedal down sounds right for stock?
 
I think the brake pedal is ridiculously high. Wrong pedal maybe?
 
Let me stick a ruler in there so there is no misleading from the photo. I can say this, I've driven lots of old vehicles in my years, including early 70's mobile home toaters, and this is the scariest break pedal position I've ever encountered.
 
My stock 67 dart, factory front KH disk.

Gas pedal to floor
PXL_20230825_235126931.jpg



Brake pedal in natural position

PXL_20230825_235059625.jpg



Brake pedal pulled up as if a return spring was installed.

PXL_20230825_235147990.jpg



By chance did you ever replace the master cyl?

Reason is if the new master had the push rod retainer in the piston and the old pushrod had the old keeper still attached it might have made the pedal higher.
 
No answers from post #3 of course so who knows? lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Is there any free play in the pedal before it starts actuating the master cylinder? I've seen people put return springs on brake pedals before. They don't need one.
Click to expand...
I don’t think so. I feel the pressure build in the system pretty much right after I press the brake. And the brake pressed all the way down isn’t much further down. Maybe just 4-5”.
 
Dana67Dart said:
My stock 67 dart, factory front KH disk.

Gas pedal to floor
View attachment 1716133372


Brake pedal in natural position

View attachment 1716133373


Brake pedal pulled up as if a return spring was installed.

View attachment 1716133374


By chance did you ever replace the master cyl?

Reason is if the new master had the push rod retainer in the piston and the old pushrod had the old keeper still attached it might have made the pedal higher.
Click to expand...
I didn’t, but I don’t think this is the original either. There were weird non-mopar parts on her when we got her. She had a GM alternator installed backward with a Jerry rigged bolt for example.
 
Last edited:
Dratsum said:
I don’t think so. I feel the pressure build in the system pretty much right after I press the brake. And the brake pressed all the way down isn’t much further down. Maybe just 4-5”.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking wrong brake pedal or M/C pushrod. Maybe get some of these guys to post pics of their pedals and pushrods in similar cars. Mine is an early A with a manual transmission, so that's complete apples to bananas. lol
 
Dana67Dart said:
My stock 67 dart, factory front KH disk.

Gas pedal to floor
View attachment 1716133372


Brake pedal in natural position

View attachment 1716133373


Brake pedal pulled up as if a return spring was installed.

View attachment 1716133374


By chance did you ever replace the master cyl?

Reason is if the new master had the push rod retainer in the piston and the old pushrod had the old keeper still attached it might have made the pedal higher.
Click to expand...
Man, so nice of you to post those measurements. Very helpful - tomorrow I’ll measure mine and see how close it is to yours.

I don’t know exactly what yr referring too - but - I think I get they yr saying there might be an extra piece in the assembly that’s pushing the pedal higher.

Maybe I should try replacing the master with a new one from Napa.

Is it also possible that this car has the brake booster before? I feel like I’ve seen those between the MC and the firewall and maybe if it was removed it’s throwing everything off.
 
Dratsum said:
Man, so nice of you to post those measurements. Very helpful - tomorrow I’ll measure mine and see how close it is to yours.

I don’t know exactly what yr referring too - but - I think I get they yr saying there might be an extra piece in the assembly that’s pushing the pedal higher.

Maybe I should try replacing the master with a new one from Napa.

Is it also possible that this car has the brake booster before? I feel like I’ve seen those between the MC and the firewall and maybe if it was removed it’s throwing everything off.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't jump to buying anything yet. I don't think a new master cylinder will make up for four or five inches difference. Think about it. That's the entire LENGTH of the master cylinder. It's not the master cylinder. I would wait for some other guys to post pictures of their pedals and M/C rods first. I'm betting it's one or the other.....or both.
 
The attachment point for the m/c rod is very close to the pedal pivot. On purpose. Because it gives the necessary leverage with manual [ non-power] brakes. It also means the m/c rod travels less distance. I suspect the distance off the floor might be correct to allow enough travel of the rod when bleeding the brakes.
 
My 2 cents --- I had the same problem , brake pedal way to high .. Ended up backing my front brake shoes off just a little allowing the pedal more free play before shoe contact on drums .. Then adjusted my brake light / pedal stop forward to allow shoe release from drum so brakes were'nt dragging .. Pedal is in a much more comfortable position .. Works for me - 15,000 miles no issues ...
 
Got my photos- let me sure what y’all think.

Brake in neutral position
IMG_7602.jpeg


Brake pedal lifted up all the way
IMG_7609.jpeg


Brake pedal presses fully
IMG_7605.jpeg


Distance between throttle and bake in neutral positions.
IMG_7603.jpeg


Distance between throttle and brake with gas to the floor.
IMG_7604.jpeg
 
Dana67Dart said:
My stock 67 dart, factory front KH disk.

Gas pedal to floor
View attachment 1716133372


Brake pedal in natural position

View attachment 1716133373


Brake pedal pulled up as if a return spring was installed.

View attachment 1716133374


By chance did you ever replace the master cyl?

Reason is if the new master had the push rod retainer in the piston and the old pushrod had the old keeper still attached it might have made the pedal higher.
Click to expand...
Looks like mine Brake pedal is about 2” higher than yours. Doesn’t seem like much, but, 8” distance from the foot on the gas to the pedal feels dangerous. If I’m right foot breaking, I often catch the side of the pedal with the side of my shoe. Can be quite thrilling. Also, I’m 6’4” tall, so, when I exaggerate the movement of my leg to make sure I’m going high enough, I’m my knee comes close to hitting the steering wheel.

To be fair, by DD is a modern car, so, it might be that I’m just not use to it.
 
AFAIK the pedal is supposed to hit a rubber up-stop at the top of it's stroke but I don't see it in your pic.
If it was mine, I'd just fabricate a new up-stop, and adjust the M/C length to match and make sure the compensating port is still open.
Then If I felt the need, I would maybe raise the gas-pedal. But if you do that, you will need to fabricate a down-stop for that one, so you don't bugger the throttle-linkage.
 
I had this problem on my 67 Barracuda. The little rubber ring was not fully “seated” in the master cylinder piston.

It was part way in, far enough to keep the pedal rod from pulling out, but not all the way seated.

If he can pull the pedal up 2”, I’d bet this is his issue.
 
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