Cam removal and install without removing heads?

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Valve clearance is gonna be impossible to check without removing the heads. What is the rest of the combo? Piston height? how far below the deck? Heads? Valve springs? Etc


Not so my fine feathered friend , we used to double check valve to piston clearance thru the spark plug holes/rolling the engine over by hand. You have to used very soft 50/50 wire solder, or something even softer that is around an 1/8" thick , but will retain it shape when flattened.
If it didn`t bend the small diameter hemi valve stems , on a 785 lift roller cam , it wont hurt the thicker stems of a wedge.
I always preferred around .100 on intakes , and at least .125 on the exhaust.----------------
 
Don’t over cam if it is a driver. My low compression 360 has too much cam & it is a low rpm dog. Runs great when you wind it up, but I don’t do it that much. I would rather have more low end to drive it around town.
 
OP, as posted in post #23, take compression readings before tearing it down and let everyone know the results. You also mentioned having a new torque converter? Can you tell us what its stall RPM is?

Do you recall if the new pistons have eyebrows in them? Or do you have the new pistons' part number? That wil make quite a difference.

In general, with the low compression ratio of the standard 318 pistons, you are going to be better off with a fast rate of lift in the cam, like in the Voodoo cam series. There are similar types from Comp, Howard, and others.

You mention going to the track; are you going to use this car/engine for general driving and a few trips to the track, or what exactly?
 
Fast-rate is on track, and a tight LSA would be a good thing too, unlike the 701 with it's late closing intake, due to the 112LSA.The 701 is 16* bigger than stock in advertised intake duration,but the 6* later closing intake will bleed pressure, making it a low rpm dog...... unless the stall is high enough to get past that. And the 1200ft elevation at OPs location will make it harder yet to build pressure.
That same cam on a 106LSA would lose only 2* ICA and be a much better street candidate,IMO. And the extra 12* overlap could be a blessing, especially with headers..
 
Not so my fine feathered friend , we used to double check valve to piston clearance thru the spark plug holes/rolling the engine over by hand. You have to used very soft 50/50 wire solder, or something even softer that is around an 1/8" thick , but will retain it shape when flattened.
If it didn`t bend the small diameter hemi valve stems , on a 785 lift roller cam , it wont hurt the thicker stems of a wedge.
I always preferred around .100 on intakes , and at least .125 on the exhaust.----------------
Yeah I have been corrected on this mistake already lol. But thanks for bringing that method to my attention that sounds pretty easy and simple I like it! Thanks
 

valve to piston clearance can be checked with a solid lifter and any springs and a thickness gauge between valve stem and rockers. do not add more cam without fresh springs
 
Fast-rate is on track, and a tight LSA would be a good thing too, unlike the 701 with it's late closing intake, due to the 112LSA.The 701 is 16* bigger than stock in advertised intake duration,but the 6* later closing intake will bleed pressure, making it a low rpm dog...... unless the stall is high enough to get past that. And the 1200ft elevation at OPs location will make it harder yet to build pressure.
That same cam on a 106LSA would lose only 2* ICA and be a much better street candidate,IMO. And the extra 12* overlap could be a blessing, especially with headers..
IMHO, with a wide LSA like 112, it will be better since the low RPM overlap and reversion will be far less. Too much overlap/reversion will dilute the intake charge and make the low RPM torque weaker than the later intake closing. The extra overlap is only a blessing at high RPM's where the exhaust pull-through on the intake helps, but hurts at low RPM's.

Again..... depends on what the OP wants to do with the engine/car.
 
IMHO, with a wide LSA like 112, it will be better since the low RPM overlap and reversion will be far less. Too much overlap/reversion will dilute the intake charge and make the low RPM torque weaker than the later intake closing. The extra overlap is only a blessing at high RPM's where the exhaust pull-through on the intake helps, but hurts at low RPM's.

Again..... depends on what the OP wants to do with the engine/car.

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.475
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1000-5500
  • Includes: Cam Only
Part Number: 10200701
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Wallace-predicted pressures@7.8Scr
240/248/112/20 overlap, ICA of 48*/135psi@sealevel; stock Mopar
>as above but corrected to 1200 ft elevation ...... 129psi

256/262/112/35 overlap, ICA of 56*/121psi@1200ft, stock 701Lunati

256/262/106/47 overlap, ICA of 52*/125psi@1200 ft, LSA tightened

EDIT: transferred in from post 39 for clarification

253/258/112/31.5 overlap, ICA of 54.5/ 123psi@1200ft, 700Lunati
253/258/107/41.5 overlap, ICA of 51.5/126psi@1200ft, A/A but tighter LSA

More Edits, additional material.
IMO, with cams this small, reversion is ended before stall. You can tell by the very early vacuum peak
one more example to show what can be done.... at higher compression ratios;
268/276/110/60*overlap/ICA of 60/159psi@1200@9.8Scr,Lunati 703. That's how you solve your soft bottom end problems with iron heads at 1200 ft, while simultaneously making some power, while sacrificing some economy, and enjoying a bit of idle lope at 700rpm.
The 702Lunati has compression and power events only 3* different from this 703, but the overlap is reduced to 41* so you lose the slight powerbulge after the torque peak that headers would make, making log manifolds an option.
(262/268/112/41*overlap,ICA of 59/160psi@1200@9.8Scr, Lunati 702.)
Hiway economy will be very little changed so personally I would chose the 703 over the 702 every time.
And then, for even more power, while retaining bottom end; there are the Solid Flat Tappet cams
Here is the smallest SFT Lunati makes, installed in your 7.8engine; the Lunati 740
264/272/110/48*overlap/ICA of~54*after lash/123psi@1200ft@7.8Scr .. This is a 235/243/110 @.050 so pretty big in terms of power, yet a modest overlap which after lashing will be even less.
Lets bump the compression up a tad and see what happens; At 9.5 Scr the pressure climbs to 161 psi, and the bottom end is over 25% stronger than 700Lunati@7.8. To understand that 25%, think 4.10 gears versus 3.23s on the start line. or 175ftlbs versus 140 at 1750stall.

I'm not telling you to completely re-engineer your combo. This info is for the next guy, beginning his teener build and clicks on your thread using the search button.
The 700 is 253/258/112/31.5/Ica of 54.5* and 208/213@.050/ 123psi@7.8Scr.
The 740 is 264/272/110/40(estimated after lash) and 235/243@.050/ 160psi@9.5 Scr with an estimated ICA of 54*after lashing.... The ICAs are nearly identical.
I imagine the power difference might be 40hp. That would be ~40hp for the cost of a set of pistons, and setting up the heads to run the lift. And don't forget; plus 25% stronger bottom end, over the Lunati 700. So maybe you save the cost of gears and a hi-stall, and so burn less gas around town. So the net cost could be less than one might imagine. And a lot less at the end of the year.
 
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Fast-rate is on track, and a tight LSA would be a good thing too, unlike the 701 with it's late closing intake, due to the 112LSA.The 701 is 16* bigger than stock in advertised intake duration,but the 6* later closing intake will bleed pressure, making it a low rpm dog...... unless the stall is high enough to get past that. And the 1200ft elevation at OPs location will make it harder yet to build pressure.
That same cam on a 106LSA would lose only 2* ICA and be a much better street candidate,IMO. And the extra 12* overlap could be a blessing, especially with headers..
Just curious why do you keep referring to the 701
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.475
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1000-5500
  • Includes: Cam Only
Part Number: 10200701

240/248/112/20 overlap, ICA of 50*/128psi@1200ft, stock Mopar

256/262/112/35 overlap, ICA of 56*/121psi@1200ft, stock 701Lunati

256/262/106/47 overlap, ICA of 52*/125psi@1200 ft, LSA tightened
wrong cam buddy! I said the 10200700 not the 701. But even so the 701 would be fine in stock 318.
 
valve to piston clearance can be checked with a solid lifter and any springs and a thickness gauge between valve stem and rockers. do not add more cam without fresh springs

How do you 'feel' for contact with valve springs when rolling it over? Let's say you have .125 added thickness and you are "making sure" you have no contact. How do you know you are not digging in the edge of the valve?

This would be "too simple" if it's true!!!
 
I like this one for a mild 318.
Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 10200700LK
It will work with stock converter higher gears and cheaper valve springs. Its not going to require you (in most cases) to cut valve guides. Like I said my retainer to guide clearance (with the umbrella seals installed) was .487. So the .454 lift will still give you some clearance of the seal.

I have the 10200701 and I wish I had gone with the 10200703, but I have 4.10 gearing out back.
 
Just curious why do you keep referring to the 701

wrong cam buddy! I said the 10200700 not the 701. But even so the 701 would be fine in stock 318.
Ah yes dartfreak75,you did say700, so I screwed up
  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 253/258
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 208/213
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.454
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: idle-5000
  • Includes: Cam Only Part Number: 10200700
253/258/112/31.5 overlap, ICA of 54.5/ 123psi@1200ft@7.8Scr
Yeah so, I wanna say;still proves the point; a doggie sub-3000 rpm; so as asked a long time ago; "How much stall?"

The stock cam at 1200ft is already tanking at a predicted 129psi................................
 
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How do you 'feel' for contact with valve springs when rolling it over? Let's say you have .125 added thickness and you are "making sure" you have no contact. How do you know you are not digging in the edge of the valve?

This would be "too simple" if it's true!!!

I think he means any spring you can compress with your hand. Rotate the crank 2 degrees and push down on the valve check the lash. Rotate 2 degrees and repeat.
 
Easier probably to just set it at zero lash then put feeler gauge in that you want for clearance. Then slowly turn the crank a couple of degrees at a time. Check by pushing on the rocker. If you get valve movement you know you have more than what you wanted.
 
that 701 is mild!!!!ive got one cheap with lifters if u like. my 318 was fine for clearance with 284/484, but naturally it was a dog til about 3500 rpm
 
Just another note....you can make up a air line fitting that screws into a spark plug hole like a compression gauge hose. Then apply shop air pressure. This will hold the valves up so the valve springs, retainers and keepers can be changed without taking the heads off as well...
 
O K it is easier to rotate and check with a mild spring. adjust to zero lash with a solid lifter, and creep up on it, insert an .080" and gently rotate. easier to do with 2 or 3 pistons in. check 1 on each side. if it rotates around smoothly-u have at least .080" v to p. then do .100", then whatever. this is how we do it round here.
 
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