Some early theory suggestions from the 'Professionals'.
November 1975
November 1975
Cam Theory and Application
- Thread starter 69 Cuda 440
- Start date
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And with this topic, learning cam "Stuff" starts with reading the current cam companies lit. There not exactly all the same.
As per Super Stock & Drag Illustrated,
The only way to get the Cam and Timing dialed in, is on a 'Dyno'.
The 'best' Race Mechanics are one thing, but the 'general' Performance Shop
Ignition Techs fell short in getting 'optimal' results without running the car on the
'Dyno'.
The only way to get the Cam and Timing dialed in, is on a 'Dyno'.
The 'best' Race Mechanics are one thing, but the 'general' Performance Shop
Ignition Techs fell short in getting 'optimal' results without running the car on the
'Dyno'.
WRONG!!!
The place to find out where to get it dialed in is on the track! Your best peak numbers on a dyno DO NOT always cross over to best on track performance.
Nothing has changed at all since 1975... this has to be a joke.
If I knew then in say 1982 , what I know now regarding tuning, my car that went mid 9's would have been running mid-high 8's.
Keep in mind that 69 Cuda is quoting from a 1975 magazine! A lot, if not all, of the racers back then would withhold certain amounts of information regarding their setups and tuning tricks. Same went for the cam manufacturers.
Absolutely correct, DFX
Getting Camshaft information, even from the Factory Techs
at Chrysler Racing was 'near' impossible.
As for 'Crackedback'
Just how many guys could 'tweak' a customers Race Car at the Track.
And there were virtually no 'Test-n-Tune' Tracks.
In the Northeast, you had to have a 'Bear Chassis Dyno', as that was the only
way you were getting the 'optimal' performance, at least on the
Street.
Did it tuning just about every week at OCIR... NEXT!
You may not get optimal on track performance from an engine pulled of the dyno no matter how much it may get said.
You just love to see yourself post... admit it. LOL
Wow pretty pictures of the covers, no substance!
You may not get optimal on track performance from an engine pulled of the dyno no matter how much it may get said.
You just love to see yourself post... admit it. LOL
Wow pretty pictures of the covers, no substance!
Bang on right DFX!
Even today Stock and SS guys don't freely give out what they have or figured out.
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Try tuning your 'big' Race Car in New York, on a Cold Winter's Day in February.
In February, I called the Drag Strip in New York, and asked them if I could use the Track for a Test-N-Tune,
They said, "Yes, just bring a Snow Plow".
Cracked-Back, give me a break. You talk like you're some kind of 'expert' with your Timing Light.
I guess everbody who has a 'DYNO'....... is a real schmuck.
I guess if "optimal" means satisfactory, then so be it.
If you think I don't know what I'm doing OK. I don't base what I do off lit from the 1970's when there are better established ways of doing things in 2013. It's called keeping up with the times. My stuff ran pretty hard for what it was in the 80's and it would get killed by the same exact parts today with the updated tuning info.
Some dyno operators are not very good, seen some of those and some real good ones as well. Nothing more than a tool to see tuning changes. Doesn't make the set up off the dyno "correct" for what the vehicles likes or track situation. I realize that may be tough to comprehend.
When something substantive gets posted, otherwise it's just blah blah blah
If you think I don't know what I'm doing OK. I don't base what I do off lit from the 1970's when there are better established ways of doing things in 2013. It's called keeping up with the times. My stuff ran pretty hard for what it was in the 80's and it would get killed by the same exact parts today with the updated tuning info.
Some dyno operators are not very good, seen some of those and some real good ones as well. Nothing more than a tool to see tuning changes. Doesn't make the set up off the dyno "correct" for what the vehicles likes or track situation. I realize that may be tough to comprehend.
When something substantive gets posted, otherwise it's just blah blah blah
Hey Mr. Norm,
Get rid of your DYNO........you have no idea of what you're doing.
You only sold about 'a gazillion cars'.
Get rid of your DYNO........you have no idea of what you're doing.
You only sold about 'a gazillion cars'.
Cracked is right and seling cars, many of them, is marketing!
While a dyno can be a great tool, setting the engine up for one raceway is different from the next raceway. Everything is a factor.
Your pretty insultive ain't ya.
While a dyno can be a great tool, setting the engine up for one raceway is different from the next raceway. Everything is a factor.
Your pretty insultive ain't ya.
moper
Well-Known Member
Dynos are tools - unfortunately stationary tools that have thier own calibrations and technical limitations. Especially the old ones. I have worked at and managed a chassis dyno shop. I know how they are run, and how they can be manipulated.
I tuned my cars in the winter, on roads that still had snow banks. I raced year round on the street and with temps changing that's something you had to do. The only truth teller is a timed run on a track but yes, climate prohibits this in some places. That doesn't change the truth.
I tuned my cars in the winter, on roads that still had snow banks. I raced year round on the street and with temps changing that's something you had to do. The only truth teller is a timed run on a track but yes, climate prohibits this in some places. That doesn't change the truth.
Of course the 'Proof-is-in-the-Pudding',
Track results are the only thing that means anything, but you need
a starting point, especially for 'Street Cars' that aren't hitting the Track
on a regular basis.
Rumblefish, for a guy on Long Island,
Not everybody had access to Conduit Highway. And you well know, the
Performance Shops that had Dyno's were 5-times busier than the ones that didn't have them.
* S & K
* Speedwin Automotive
* Stowe Engineering
* Pacer's Automotive
* Rockville Centre Automotive
Track results are the only thing that means anything, but you need
a starting point, especially for 'Street Cars' that aren't hitting the Track
on a regular basis.
Rumblefish, for a guy on Long Island,
Not everybody had access to Conduit Highway. And you well know, the
Performance Shops that had Dyno's were 5-times busier than the ones that didn't have them.
* S & K
* Speedwin Automotive
* Stowe Engineering
* Pacer's Automotive
* Rockville Centre Automotive
805moparkid
Slant and AFX Guy
tuning... add more jet till it slows down, step back. add timing till it slows, step back, back to fuel.
thats all you can do on the dyno and a track day is much cheaper and more fun... then you get to actually play with suspension, converter, and everything else
thats all you can do on the dyno and a track day is much cheaper and more fun... then you get to actually play with suspension, converter, and everything else
Me too. I miss OCIR and Irwindale. The original Irwindale with the splintered wooden bleachers, primitive bathrooms, and potholes in the pits. I used to get more runs there than at OCIR.
Mopar Kid,
If you're running a Performance Shop, hard to take a car to the track,
especially in February in the Northeast.
In 1970, if your Performance Shop had a 'Dyno' ......you lived in a very big house.
If you only had a 'Timing Light' and a 'Dwell Meter'..........you did not.
If you're running a Performance Shop, hard to take a car to the track,
especially in February in the Northeast.
In 1970, if your Performance Shop had a 'Dyno' ......you lived in a very big house.
If you only had a 'Timing Light' and a 'Dwell Meter'..........you did not.
Track numbers are the end all be all. Dyno numbers are not all equal because there's always someone out there tryin to sell stuff with a happy dyno. They aren't hard to spot. They are always the ones bragging about the most power with no track proof like time slips or bragging customers to back it up. I will say there are those who are reputable with dyno numbers. They are somewhat harder to see, because they never wave the "look at me flag". They tell it like it is, and leave it at that.
Our auto mechanics instructor used to take a handful of us to the dyno room at Mercer University in Macon. I even got to dyno a few engines I built. It is very, very easy to make a dyno "lie", but you cannot fake track numbers. To me, the track IS the ultimate dyno. No room for fluff and bullshit there.
Our auto mechanics instructor used to take a handful of us to the dyno room at Mercer University in Macon. I even got to dyno a few engines I built. It is very, very easy to make a dyno "lie", but you cannot fake track numbers. To me, the track IS the ultimate dyno. No room for fluff and bullshit there.
Not talking about 'numbers fudging' for selling products, or to show some
'massaged' Horsepower and Torque numbers.
A 'true' Chassis Dyno, to help tweak the Timing and Carburetor, after the
installation of a new 'Camshaft'.
Remember too, back then you had to 'lock-up' a Distrbutor with a 'Performance Curve',
as not everybody was running a Mallory or Accel.
New 'ballgame today' with access to a lot more information.
Nearly everybody who had an extra $75, was sending their Performance Car to the 'Dyno-Man'.
'massaged' Horsepower and Torque numbers.
A 'true' Chassis Dyno, to help tweak the Timing and Carburetor, after the
installation of a new 'Camshaft'.
Remember too, back then you had to 'lock-up' a Distrbutor with a 'Performance Curve',
as not everybody was running a Mallory or Accel.
New 'ballgame today' with access to a lot more information.
Nearly everybody who had an extra $75, was sending their Performance Car to the 'Dyno-Man'.
That would be tuned by "Charlie Dodge", my in law.
God rest his soul.
The "Conduit" was a happening spot but a poor place to tune the car via trial and error. (Why you mention that is beyond me because it was a place to run not experiment with the car.) If you were serious about tuning the car in a DIY manor, E-Town or Island is still available. The East Hampton track is gone.
(How long have you been out of state?)
goldmember
Well-Known Member
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Cam design is not related to engine output at least in the way you would hope. Looking at a few numbers on a lift chart do NOT tell anything useful. The important points are completely missed by anything the average guy can see on paper. If you have looked at true data things become clearer and then you'll need some testing. How much$$$ do you have. LOLOLOLL I've seen data from many grinds and I can get data from all current lobes,it will cost $$$ to see the truth. Then go test stuff and unless your racing a SS car your better finding a smart cam guy.
goldmember
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As far as chassis dynos they are useful but I've seen combos that were slower at the track after picking up HP on the chassis dyno. Think about it. It is like testing oil pans on a stationary dyno,NOT the same as in car at all.
I knew all the tracks,
I was talking about 'yester-year'.
'Uncle Al' over at Rockville Center Dodge
* New York National Speedway
* WestHampton {Suffolk County}
* Islip {1/8 Mile}
* Dover Drag Strip
* Lebanon Valley
* Island
* Englishtown
* Atco
* Maple Grove
* Connecticut
I saw guys running and tuning their cars near Kennedy Airport, running
tests with the hoods off. Not the 'normal' tune-up place.
I live in Wilton, Connecticut - but I'm all over the New York area.
I was talking about 'yester-year'.
'Uncle Al' over at Rockville Center Dodge
* New York National Speedway
* WestHampton {Suffolk County}
* Islip {1/8 Mile}
* Dover Drag Strip
* Lebanon Valley
* Island
* Englishtown
* Atco
* Maple Grove
* Connecticut
I saw guys running and tuning their cars near Kennedy Airport, running
tests with the hoods off. Not the 'normal' tune-up place.
I live in Wilton, Connecticut - but I'm all over the New York area.
Yesteryear?!?! BAHA ha ha ha. It's still present day minus a few tracks and the few good spots that "Used to be good to run" around the area. Way to heavy traffic these days and patrols up the KA-Zoo! I only meat states what is now, not then, which has no real place today in what was and is done now.
Seeing someone run without a hood doesn't account for much. It is still done and even by the Honda crowd as well.
For a quick dial in and tune, yea, it's fine though the convo was going in a more track direction. I really do not consider that JFK crew seriously tuning there car. Work out a bug, get the carb to stop bogging or the computer to stop running insanely rich, sure!
A serious tune? Hell no! Come on! LMAO!
(Love watching them birds come in. See'em daily)
(Your location says your in NC!)
Seeing someone run without a hood doesn't account for much. It is still done and even by the Honda crowd as well.
For a quick dial in and tune, yea, it's fine though the convo was going in a more track direction. I really do not consider that JFK crew seriously tuning there car. Work out a bug, get the carb to stop bogging or the computer to stop running insanely rich, sure!
A serious tune? Hell no! Come on! LMAO!
(Love watching them birds come in. See'em daily)
(Your location says your in NC!)
I have several homes,
North Carolina, Connecticut and Vermont.
I did very well in the 'stock market', and Real Estate in Westchester County.
You're quite the argumentative type, not sure why. Maybe it's the traffic
in Long Island.
I hated it too, when we went to National Speedway. Friggin' AHRA track,
with every bizarre class known to man.......
North Carolina, Connecticut and Vermont.
I did very well in the 'stock market', and Real Estate in Westchester County.
You're quite the argumentative type, not sure why. Maybe it's the traffic
in Long Island.
I hated it too, when we went to National Speedway. Friggin' AHRA track,
with every bizarre class known to man.......
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