Can't do it all at once: what's your reccomendation for order of suspension upgrades?

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I will dig into the green brick articles I have and make the list. The majority of the stuff is very easy to get ahold of. Spare parts are readily available at any auto part store.
I just have to remember where I put the magazines.

*scratches head looking at boxes*
 
We already did, years ago. :D
My car looked like **** underneath and even had the single exhaust with a glasspack and I still did the connectors even before I fixed that stuff.
The front looks like a big nasty weld but it's actually two welds side by side.
There is a section of angle welded to the tie and then the weld to the frame.because I literally wanted to tie into the front section and not just the rear face of the cross member.
I still have not cut and closed in the rear of the ties, but the ties are completely enclosed like the diagram shows.

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Hey thanks!! I'm hoping to get some tubing and get a set of connectors made in the next week or 2 and that diagram will help a lot!!
 
I would not be at all concerned about the weight of the connectors. You are putting it in the best place possible.
Besides they vary all over the place from the "garbage" thin-wall sheet-metal ones to the Humdinger 2x3x1/8 wall "set-on-stun" stuff you get at the machine shop and hire a specialist to weld in.

I followed along on the GreenBrick build too, and added my own spin to it.
 
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i agree with post #13 and AJ.
Even when new, stock A bodies were under sprung, oozy and would understeer right off the road on big highway bends at even a hair over the speed limit.
For a safe enjoyable ride with a modern feel, assuming your suspension is in good stock condition
#1 disc brakes
#2 tires
#3 front sway bar
#4 at least .920 torsion bars
#5 good shocks
I don't think your rear springs have to be real stiff if you have good shocks as long as it sits at stock height or lower.At this level your car will stop great,handle with a more modern feel and allow you to push the car a little safely.
To this I would add;
Take boost out of the power steering system,But leave enough to do crazy smoky figure-8s.
And take boost-assist out of the power brake system. Man that's; crazy- mash-your-face-into-the windshield-boost the factory put in there.
 
1 Tire/Wheel combo
2 Bilstein RCD Shocks or better
Biggest seat of the pants easy change.
3 Front end alignment
Lifetime alignment from my Firestone Dealer. They love my car and always take good care of me. I can tweak the torsion bars/ride height and have Firestone reset the alignment no charge.
Rebuild the front end... back to Firestone for a free alignment...
 
Most people that haven't done many handling upgrades with their suspension praise sub frame connectors and the first thing to do.

I've had lots of different iterations of upgrades over the last 25 years. Sub frames connectors weren't nearly the seat of the pants as others.

Mitch Lelito ran nationally competitive autocross for years with a Challenger without subframe connectors and an extremely stiff suspension. 1.25" t-bars (max size possible), very stiff shocks, 1 3/8" ft sway bar, 1" rear bar, super sticky 265/45/16 wide race only tires, on and on....

If it were legal in his class, sure he'd run them. sure they help. But if you don't have them, all other upgrades are not futile. He thinks his mopar had a chassis advantage over the 2nd gen camaro's and mustangs in his class.

If you think your car is going to bend in half when adding mild but substantial 1" torsion bars, sway bars, shocks, and better tires... you're paronoid or have a rusty damaged chassis.
 
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1" torsion bars
1 1/8 front Hellwig sway bar
3/4 rear hellwig adjustable sway bar
Bilstein RCD shocks
stock upper control arms with Moog 7103 offset bushings installed for more caster
Four 17x8 rims with 5" ft and 4.5 rear backspace with 245/45/17 tires

That will give you a noticeable difference

Jumping up to larger that 1.10" torsion bars should look into sub frame connectors.
 

Wider better tires
Front end rebuild
Bilstein or better shocks
Heavy duty torsion bar, leafs
Kframe reinforcement
Modern sport alignment
Sway bars
76+ bbj discs
Frame connectors
Better ratio no slopped steering
 
I still have little baby wheels and tires, haven't:
boxed my lca,
connected subframes
installed my rear sway bars

And the improvement is ridiculous from doing all of the other mods I listed in the post above. (in addition to those mods, I went to a u joint steering coupler to my borgeson power steering system and run ss brake hoses, and an adjustable strut bar)
 
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I still have little baby wheels and tires, and haven't boxed my lca, connected subframe, or installed my rear sway...And the improvement is rediculous.
I read this as;
I still have little baby wheels and tires,and
still haven't boxed my LCAs,and
still haven't connected my subframes, and
still haven't installed my rear swaybar,and
the improvement is ridiculous.
Is that what you intended to say?
 
I read this as;
I still have little baby wheels and tires,and
still haven't boxed my LCAs,and
still haven't connected my subframes, and
still haven't installed my rear swaybar,and
the improvement is ridiculous.
Is that what you intended to say?

fixed
 
Wider better tires
Front end rebuild
Bilstein or better shocks
Heavy duty torsion bar, leafs
Kframe reinforcement
Modern sport alignment
Sway bars
76+ bbj discs
Frame connectors
Better ratio no slopped steering


The order I did it in;
1 thru 6 all done at same time
1)disc-brake conversion
2)Heavy duty torsion bar, leafs
3)Front end rebuild
4)Bilstein or better shocks
5)Sway bars
6)Wider better tires
7)Modern sport alignment
8)Better ratio no slopped steering

Not done and won't be doing;
Kframe reinforcement
Frame connectors
 
The order I did it in;
1 thru 6 all done at same time
1)disc-brake conversion
2)Heavy duty torsion bar, leafs
3)Front end rebuild
4)Bilstein or better shocks
5)Sway bars
6)Wider better tires
7)Modern sport alignment
8)Better ratio no slopped steering

Not done and won't be doing;
Kframe reinforcement
Frame connectors
You might want to reconsider reinforcing your k-member. Pop your hood and watch your steering box while you reach into the car and turn the wheel back and forth. I wasn't planning to reinforce my k-member any time soon to I did that and now that's one of the next mods I'll be doing!! I could see my steering box MOVE when I turned the wheel!!

So far, the upgrades I've done are.
1. Disc brakes
2. Offset UCA bushings
3. Wider tires all around

Next upgrades on my list to do will probably be.

1. Homemade subframe connectors
2. Reinforced K-member
3. Homemade adjustable strut rods
4. Boxed LCA's with delrin or poly bushings.
5. 1.03" torsion bars
6. Bilstein shocks
7. 16:1 steering box
8. Sway bars
9. Tubular UCA's (if I want more caster)

The reason I'll be doing the subframe connectors first is the tunnel and upper hoop of my transmission crossmember have been cut out since before I got the car and I need to take out the interior to weld that back in so I may as well do the connectors at the same time.

And since I don't do my own alignments I'll be doing 2-5 all at the same time. I'll get the strut rods made and rebuild/box the LCA's out of my valiant parts car and have it all ready to go in then I'll take an afternoon or 2 and drop the K-member and LCA's out and reinforce and seam weld the K and install it, the new LCA's, strut rods and TB's and take it in and get it aligned.

I may actually do the tb's at the same time as I do the subframe connectors and trans tunnel since I can measure the current ride height and put it back to that once I get em out in and my alignment should be fine.
 
I just don't know where you guys find these wet-noodle Ks.
Perhaps someone else already welded mine up, and I just don't know it.
Mine is from an early Duster340.
When I'm carving corners, remember I'm a streeter so speeds are 45 or less. Traction is poor on the streets, so mostly I'm steering with with the back-end, as in power-sliding and playing drifter. So even if my K was all twisted up, I'd never know it, cuz that end ain't doing the steering,much.lol
 
I have had 4 v8 a bodies in the past 2 years.

all of them had cracked welds, **** welds, and inadequate welding. you are either a fool or lucky if you think you don't require k frame reinforcing. two of the ks had majorly cracked welding around motor mounts as well.

It was a major upgrade.
 
I knew I bought that Schumacher engine tie-down for a good reason.
Did I mention it is a 340K?
It's been under there since 1999........I guess I should take it all apart for a look-see then...........
Nah.
Maybe next year.
 
I'll throw my experiences into the mix

The biggest differences you will feel are the torsion bars, springs, shocks and a proper alignment. They make a bigger difference than everything else except tires, BUT, if you put awesome tires on the stock suspension it will actually highlight how weak the stock suspension stuff is. You might turn faster lap times, but the car will feel awful because the body roll and vague handling will be accentuated . Chassis stiffening makes a big difference, but, it's more about how the car feels than how it actually handles.

When I bought my Challenger the first thing I did was rebuild the entire front suspension. I installed the 1.12" torsion bars and XHD leaf springs, upgraded the brakes to 11.75" rotors, installed tubular UCA's and LCA's (overkill), and had a proper alignment done. I left the shocks alone (it had brand new KYB's). The improvement in handling was spectacular, even with the 15" rims and harder than hockey puck Chinese knock-offs of BFG T/A's. Yeah, not even real T/A's. I didn't do any chassis stiffening, didn't install sway bars, didn't do anything else. I put tens of thousands of miles on the car like that before I installed the 275/40/17's on 17x9's all the way around. Again, big difference. The car was much more solidly planted, and I actually got some body roll back now that I could put the grip through the suspension. I probably would have noticed a sway bar upgrade at that point with the 275's, with the hockey pucks it was oversprung without the the bars. I had to switch back to a set of boxed LCA's when my CAP sourced tubular LCA's failed, probably another 10k miles later. Didn't notice any difference at all. I forget when I switched to the Hotchkis UCA's and ditched the CAP tubular UCA's, I think it was actually before the LCA's failed. I did notice the removal of the anti-dive, the nose of the car would bite down a bit more under heavy braking than it did before. Last thing I did was upgrade to the Bilstein RCD's, and I instantly wished I had done it years earlier. It made the car so much more tolerable, the ride was much less harsh and the handling was better.

I never did any chassis stiffening on the Challenger when I had it on the road with over 60k miles logged. Now, with the 1.12" torsion bars and 275's on all 4 corners I can tell you I could FEEL the chassis flex in that car. Which, now that I've torn that car down to the shell, isn't surprising. That car was a rusty POS. It has rust in the frame rails, the torsion bar crossmember, the floor, even in the hardtop structure of the roof. Yeah it's bad. I'm actually kinda surprised I didn't fold that car in half now that I've replaced as much metal as I have on that car, with a lot more to go. But you know what? It handled pretty well. Yes, the chassis flex was a spooky feeling when you really pushed the car hard. And by comparison, I did the frame connectors, torque boxes and J-bars on my Duster pretty early. That car feels SOLID. And that inspires more confidence, and it definitely feels better. But the Challenger still handled well, even though it was even more flexy than a stock E-body, which is worse than an A to begin with.

As far as the K frame stiffening, the steering box mount on the V8 K frame I installed on my Duster was about 50% separated from the K. The welds were fractured, and when you turned the wheel back and forth the steering box would move close to a 1/2" in either direction. The K's on the later A-body's were not welded well. The K on my '71 looked much better, although I seam weld and gusset all of my K frames now. Again, probably not something that will make you faster, but it feels better.

So, I would rebuild the suspension and do the torsion bars and springs first. Brakes should be in there first too. You don't need tubular arms, a set of offset UCA bushings and new bushings everywhere else will be good enough to put a decent alignment on it. Tubular uppers are nice because you can get more caster, which is good, but not necessary especially with a manual steering car. Of course if you decide to do them later it means re-doing work. Shocks can wait some if yours aren't shot but you'll really appreciate the better ones (bilsteins, fox's, etc). Check the steering box mount on the K. If it's ok, you can skip the chassis stiffening until later. If it's not you'll have to fix it and might as well at least do the K. I just finished installing a set of US Cartool subframe connectors on my Dart, and I will say unless you have your car on a rotisserie just make your own subframe connectors. I did that for my Duster, and it was SO much easier. And I don't think they're any less of an improvement than the weld to the floor kind, just about 3 days less welding to do. Tires can wait some, they make a big difference but you need the suspension to really make use of them, and the upgraded suspension will still be an improvement even with smaller tires.
 
I'll throw my experiences into the mix

The biggest differences you will feel are the torsion bars, springs, shocks and a proper alignment. They make a bigger difference than everything else except tires, BUT, if you put awesome tires on the stock suspension it will actually highlight how weak the stock suspension stuff is. You might turn faster lap times, but the car will feel awful because the body roll and vague handling will be accentuated . Chassis stiffening makes a big difference, but, it's more about how the car feels than how it actually handles.

When I bought my Challenger the first thing I did was rebuild the entire front suspension. I installed the 1.12" torsion bars and XHD leaf springs, upgraded the brakes to 11.75" rotors, installed tubular UCA's and LCA's (overkill), and had a proper alignment done. I left the shocks alone (it had brand new KYB's). The improvement in handling was spectacular, even with the 15" rims and harder than hockey puck Chinese knock-offs of BFG T/A's. Yeah, not even real T/A's. I didn't do any chassis stiffening, didn't install sway bars, didn't do anything else. I put tens of thousands of miles on the car like that before I installed the 275/40/17's on 17x9's all the way around. Again, big difference. The car was much more solidly planted, and I actually got some body roll back now that I could put the grip through the suspension. I probably would have noticed a sway bar upgrade at that point with the 275's, with the hockey pucks it was oversprung without the the bars. I had to switch back to a set of boxed LCA's when my CAP sourced tubular LCA's failed, probably another 10k miles later. Didn't notice any difference at all. I forget when I switched to the Hotchkis UCA's and ditched the CAP tubular UCA's, I think it was actually before the LCA's failed. I did notice the removal of the anti-dive, the nose of the car would bite down a bit more under heavy braking than it did before. Last thing I did was upgrade to the Bilstein RCD's, and I instantly wished I had done it years earlier. It made the car so much more tolerable, the ride was much less harsh and the handling was better.

I never did any chassis stiffening on the Challenger when I had it on the road with over 60k miles logged. Now, with the 1.12" torsion bars and 275's on all 4 corners I can tell you I could FEEL the chassis flex in that car. Which, now that I've torn that car down to the shell, isn't surprising. That car was a rusty POS. It has rust in the frame rails, the torsion bar crossmember, the floor, even in the hardtop structure of the roof. Yeah it's bad. I'm actually kinda surprised I didn't fold that car in half now that I've replaced as much metal as I have on that car, with a lot more to go. But you know what? It handled pretty well. Yes, the chassis flex was a spooky feeling when you really pushed the car hard. And by comparison, I did the frame connectors, torque boxes and J-bars on my Duster pretty early. That car feels SOLID. And that inspires more confidence, and it definitely feels better. But the Challenger still handled well, even though it was even more flexy than a stock E-body, which is worse than an A to begin with.

As far as the K frame stiffening, the steering box mount on the V8 K frame I installed on my Duster was about 50% separated from the K. The welds were fractured, and when you turned the wheel back and forth the steering box would move close to a 1/2" in either direction. The K's on the later A-body's were not welded well. The K on my '71 looked much better, although I seam weld and gusset all of my K frames now. Again, probably not something that will make you faster, but it feels better.

So, I would rebuild the suspension and do the torsion bars and springs first. Brakes should be in there first too. You don't need tubular arms, a set of offset UCA bushings and new bushings everywhere else will be good enough to put a decent alignment on it. Tubular uppers are nice because you can get more caster, which is good, but not necessary especially with a manual steering car. Of course if you decide to do them later it means re-doing work. Shocks can wait some if yours aren't shot but you'll really appreciate the better ones (bilsteins, fox's, etc). Check the steering box mount on the K. If it's ok, you can skip the chassis stiffening until later. If it's not you'll have to fix it and might as well at least do the K. I just finished installing a set of US Cartool subframe connectors on my Dart, and I will say unless you have your car on a rotisserie just make your own subframe connectors. I did that for my Duster, and it was SO much easier. And I don't think they're any less of an improvement than the weld to the floor kind, just about 3 days less welding to do. Tires can wait some, they make a big difference but you need the suspension to really make use of them, and the upgraded suspension will still be an improvement even with smaller tires.
First, thanks for your helpful post.
I am in the process of deciding what to buy for my front end rebuild. 67 barracuda conv. with a 383 4 spd. I have it completely disassembled and the motor is getting rebuilt as we speak. I am building a summer cruiser car here, not a track car. I plan on: sub frame connectors (may build myself after reading your post), 1.03 torsion bars from p.s.t., disc brake upgrade from drums as well as power addition for those (hopeful one p.s.t. quoted will fit with the big block), front sway bar (rear sway bar as well??), and complete front end bushing kit...probably rubber as opposed to poly. Any tips or advice before I pull the trigger on any of this?
 
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