Car wont start unless door is open

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Ironracer said:
A straight up wire job is OK. What You are having, is a damn NIGHTMARE! GLAD YA GOT IT!
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As it turns out, the problem still isn’t fixed. We car will start every time regardless of the door being open or closed, but there is a new problem. The car dies instantly.

the original problem reversed itself somehow. It used to be that there would be one spark on shutdown. Now there are no sparks when the key is released from the starter. If I were to hold the key forward, it would constantly run, but the second you release it from the starter, it dies.

could it be the rotor phasing and or timing? Maybe when the key is pulled back from starter, the spark is getting sent and not making contact in the dist. Cap?
 
ratty dart 340 said:
As it turns out, the problem still isn’t fixed. We car will start every time regardless of the door being open or closed, but there is a new problem. The car dies instantly.

the original problem reversed itself somehow. It used to be that there would be one spark on shutdown. Now there are no sparks when the key is released from the starter. If I were to hold the key forward, it would constantly run, but the second you release it from the starter, it dies.

could it be the rotor phasing and or timing? Maybe when the key is pulled back from starter, the spark is getting sent and not making contact in the dist. Cap?
Click to expand...

And we are certain it is not because of a lack of fuel. After reading, the problem may still reside in the key switch. I hope not
 
What have you done for measurements at the ignition system connections?
 
Check the new ballast resister. New doesn’t mean good.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Check the new ballast resister. New doesn’t mean good.
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I am absolutly blown away by this problem. It makes close to no sense. Not only does it confues mw how the car no spark when it should be idling, but i also have no clue how the door swicth changed anything.
 
67Dart273 said:
What have you done for measurements at the ignition system connections?
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i believe that when they key is in the run position(should be idling) there is no spark. When I crank I get good spark from the coil. However I’m not sure if this means the problem is past the coil further down the line, or if the coil isn’t sending sparks to dist. When it should be idling. I followed the positive and negative terminals of the coil and the negative goes into the control module. The positive goes into the ballast. I replaced the ballast with a new one a week ago. And replaced the ignition module a few months back. I am aware that new doesn’t always mean good, however we get good measurements with both of those.

also doesn’t make sense how the problem reversed itself. Went from no spark while cranking but one spark on shutdown, to good spark while cranking, and none when key is spring back from starter.

When we were testing with the steering column, the left side of the car had lights on. Like run light and tail light. I know that’s not too specific but it makes me wonder if the guy before me got two wires from seperate circuits and swapped them accidentally.

I think it’s possible that the key switch still has loose contacts inside or something like that.
 
ratty dart 340 said:
Do you mean like using a multimeter?
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Yes. Most of these circuits are not that complicated. It's when melted together harnesses "get together" that stuff can happen. You need a combination of test lamp, multimeter, and just plain unwrapping suspect harness sections to inspect. Often though, in the case of "melted shorts" you can feel, flex and visually examine harness to get a clue.
 
ratty dart 340 said:
I think it’s possible that the key switch still has loose contacts inside or something like that.
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That is certainly one possibility. I would "rig" whatever, in order to "back probe" connectors while they are connected, clip leads, paper clips, probes, nails, etc etc. Use your imagination. Monitor key points to see what they are doing. Don't overcomplicate There are only so many outputs from the key switch, and if they are not "there" then that is a problem
 
67Dart273 said:
That is certainly one possibility. I would "rig" whatever, in order to "back probe" connectors while they are connected, clip leads, paper clips, probes, nails, etc etc. Use your imagination. Monitor key points to see what they are doing. Don't overcomplicate There are only so many outputs from the key switch, and if they are not "there" then
that is a problem
Click to expand...

here are a few pics.
image.jpg
image.jpg


The second pic is interesting to me. One blue wire from the ignition module, one blue has no connection: pic below.

image.jpg


And another mystery blue wire in this junction somewhere.
image.jpg


they all lead to this wierd splice thing. Is this factory?
image.jpg
 
Often it helps to get out, spin around 3 times, click your heels together, LOL and "start over clean." In other words pretend what you did earlier "is not."

Pick one problem, and work to that. Often other problems will just fall into place
 
ratty dart 340 said:
here are a few pics. View attachment 1715885966View attachment 1715885967

The second pic is interesting to me. One blue wire from the ignition module, one blue has no connection: pic below.

View attachment 1715885969

And another mystery blue wire in this junction somewhere.View attachment 1715885972

I believe the splice might be. I would bet it is the "run" line branching off to the different points. Depending on year, / model, the "run" line feeds off to several points. Ignition box, ballast, voltage regulator, and alternator field, and electric choke if used. I believe 340 six packs had an idle solenoid. I don't remember about small blocks, but the B/ RB cars had an retard solenoid on the distributor for a couple years. There are also some other smog--doo dads here and there in about those years.

Look for key points, such as the bulkhead connector. This is why it is so important to get the "path" of a circuit in your head. I often scribble rough notes as to this, especially in the "new" more complicated stuff like my RAM/ Dakota. Those are incredibly difficult to "chase" because the diagrams are so shopped up and convoluted, and spread all over the blasted manual, LOL

they all lead to this wierd splice thing. Is this factory?
View attachment 1715885973
Click to expand...
 
67Dart273 said:
Often it helps to get out, spin around 3 times, click your heels together, LOL and "start over clean." In other words pretend what you did earlier "is not."

Pick one problem, and work to that. Often other problems will just fall into place
Click to expand...

I am trying LOL. I was following all the wires to and from the ballast resister and the igniton box. I found those connections. I am still suspect of the key switch
 

I followed the wires throught the bulkhead and it looks good. The wires that go up to the steering column would lead to the ignition switch. This is why i think that is my problem now. I will order a new one and do a few more tests and if it doesnt fix it, its back to the drawing board.
 
Actually alot of clues.
ratty dart 340 said:
i believe that when they key is in the run position(should be idling) there is no spark. When I crank I get good spark from the coil. However I’m not sure if this means the problem is past the coil further down the line, or if the coil isn’t sending sparks to dist. When it should be idling. I followed the positive and negative terminals of the coil and the negative goes into the control module. The positive goes into the ballast. I replaced the ballast with a new one a week ago. And replaced the ignition module a few months back. I am aware that new doesn’t always mean good, however we get good measurements with both of those.

also doesn’t make sense how the problem reversed itself. Went from no spark while cranking but one spark on shutdown, to good spark while cranking, and none when key is spring back from starter.

When we were testing with the steering column, the left side of the car had lights on. Like run light and tail light. I know that’s not too specific but it makes me wonder if the guy before me got two wires from seperate circuits and swapped them accidentally.

I think it’s possible that the key switch still has loose contacts inside or something like that.
Click to expand...

The way to check this is begin at one point and follow it though.

Can you read a wiring diagram?
A lot of people can't, so that's why I ask.
It's like reading a road map, but not everyone was great with them either, and nowadays even less familair to many.
 
Mattax said:
Actually alot of clues.


The way to check this is begin at one point and follow it though.

Can you read a wiring diagram?
A lot of people can't, so that's why I ask.
It's like reading a road map, but not everyone was great with them either, and nowadays even less familair to many.
Click to expand...

Yes. I have spent quite awhile looking and reading the diagrams for this car. So far we have notified and or fixed many shorts throughout the car. When the car used to idle, timing was good and it drove with no problems. Back then, our problem was getting it to start, but when it did start, it ran good. Now with how there isnt any spark when key in run position could only be a few things. So far i have spent a long time trying to figure out different possibilites, but nothing major has come up.

The most interesting thing to me is that when i tore into the steering column to check for loose wires and or shorts, i had to move the ignition switch around. I think this may have jiggled the contacts in there.

Essentially what im saying is that this switch is looking like the common factor for the problem.

New one is on the way.
 
Mattax said:
yes. Are you following the wires with a multimeter or, or test light, or what?
And how are you keeping track of what is what and where it goes?
Click to expand...

Yes we are using a multimeter where applicable and so far we have gotten good (normal readings).

We started a list on a large piece of paper of the wires, where they go, and what they do.
 
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