Collaborative early a experiment

[Treblig]

I also plan to start manufacturing the "difficult to make" super tight radius down pipe to make it easier for A body folks to install these manifolds. Here's a pic of the super tight mandrel bent radius piece on my 69 Barracuda. You can't get the super tight radius 180 degree sections at the muffler shop but I plan to buy them in bulk and sell them already welded up to the stub down pipe. This way members won't have the problem of choking down their engines where the manifolds exits just above the torsion bar. Most muffler shops can not make "mandrel bends" , there equipment always chokes the pipe down in size when they bend it....especially a 180 degree bend.


Treblig

 

[pishta]

92 models had the big holes, I got mine off a Ram truck. I think they made them smaller the next year for more torque down low

Pass.------53006618
Driver-----53006617

wait, I dont see what the tight bends are for in a 65. The pic reminds me of a big hole 340 manifold that faces slightly forward?
Here is what a set of 7/21/92 "619" castings look like mounted up on a stand. Torsion bars look pretty far from these flanges, illusion?

 

[Treblig]

Thank you Pishta for the excellent pic and info. Although installing the 6618 and 6619 manifolds on an Early A is also an option which I plan to discuss later my current plan is to find someone who wants to try the late 60s 340 manifolds with the 360 magnum passenger on their Early A. You didn't say what or how many modifications you had to make to install these manifolds?? Year of car, engine, heads, P/S or manual, column shift, Z bar, motor mounts, etc. All these factors contribute to a difficult or easy installation. Or do you have a "link" we can go to and see what you did??
And YES!! The ones you show in your pics do not exit near the torsion bars, the 340 does. I think (because I am not sure) that the late 60s 340 fits the Early As with less modification.
thanks,
Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Here is my solution to the torsion bar and 340 manifolds' clearance problem on 67 and up A bodies and Early A bodies as well. It's a super/super tight radius mandrel bent 2 1/2" Donut. This thing has a bend radius of 2 1/2", which is unattainable using a standard mandrel pipe bender. Even Vibrant, a great manufacturer of mandrel bent pipe, can not get close to 2 1/2" radius on 2 1/2" pipe!! My plan is to cut this Donut into sections and weld the sections to the stub pipes I sell so that FABO members can buy the fabricated, super tight radius, mandrel bend elbow already attached to the 340 flat flange. This way members won't have to worry about choking down their great flowing 340 manifolds with a muffler shop bent pipe. Since this Donut is the tightest radius 2 1/2" pipe you can buy there's no way you can get more clearance or flow than by using what I am manufacturing. I'll post pics of the process as I go along, if I don't freeze to death @&%^_)&($&%)^_(^!!!!!! outside.
This will come out just the last pic of my Barracuda exhaust except this Donut is a larger diameter (2 1/2" VS 2 1/4") and a tighter radius (2 1/2"R VS 3 1/2"R) !!! But it should have more torsion bar clearance. I only wish I had one of these Donuts when I built my exhaust!!
Still waiting for a volunteer to test my 340/360 magnum Early A body theory!!!!!
PS - I think I have too much time on my hands!!!

Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Now that I've sectioned the Donut I'll cut the stub, flared, down pipe at an angle that will give me the best shot at ending up with the most torsion bar clearance possible without decreasing flow!! Most muffler shops wouldn't even want to bother going through all this trouble besides they wouldn't have a super tight mandrel bent Donut in their shop anyway. This set up will work with Early A bodies and 67 and up bodies.
Remember, I'm shooting for something like the last two pics BUT with even more torsion bar clearance.

PS - Still looking for a volunteer (see first post).
treblig

 

[Dartwizer]

I agree KKuda, every car will be a little different (clearance wise). There are numerous ways to attack this issue. I could get someone with a early A (with no engine installed) to measure the two closest points inner fender to inner fender. Hopefully I could get numerous members to do this, at least all the members with their engines out!! This way we could get a good idea of the variation between cars. I have a 318 sitting in my garage. I could throw the heads on it and the exhaust manifolds and measure the width (outside to outside) on the exhaust manifolds. Also, and I'm not sure if this is doable, someone with an Early A could spread their inner fenders using a porta power or bottle jack to get just another 1/4" of width. But again, I'm not sure what other problems it might cause. If I cut the manifold mating surface at an angle I would have to also cut (spot face) the bolt head surface or you might "snap off" a bolt head forcing it to push too hard against a surface that is not parallel to the underside of the bolt head. Cutting the mating surface and spot facing the bolt head area would basically double the machining costs and I would lose any potential future buyers. I have to keep costs down or we're back to the cost of expensive headers.

And you are correct, the manifolds do need to be machined in such a way that they fit most of the Early As out there. Also, the criteria I listed at the beginning of this thread calls for someone who isn't afraid to do a little creative engineering to get them to fit. I know it's been done before but there just isn't enough documentation to make Early A owners feel comfortable about buying the late 60s 340 driver paired with the 360 magnum passenger. I already know that the price I sell these manifolds for is reasonable because I can't keep enough in stock. So my prices are OK, I have to do my best to keep the price down!!
Thanks for your great ideas!!!!
Treblig

What measurements do you need.?.I have a 63 with engine out

 

[Treblig]

What measurements do you need.?.I have a 63 with engine out

Oh excellent Dartwizer!!!! The more important measurement is between the shock towers so to speak. If you look at some of the previous posts (or links from others) you'll notice that the passenger's side manifold barely clears along the inside of the fender well. So it's the width of the engine compartment near where the center of the manifold would be situated. As you can see in the pic of my '69 Barracuda I have plenty of room for the 360 magnum manifolds like the ones I sell. From what I have read a LATE 60s Large Hole 340 driver will fit on the Early A driver's side (manual steering) with very few problems so I'm not as concerned with the driver's side. Anyway, if you could take numerous measurements to get the shortest distance between the shock tower it would be great. In fact if someone with a 67/68/69 and up A body would also measure their engine compartment width it would also help with the myth (fact) that Early A body engine bays are more narrow than 67 and up cars. At least we would have a hard number to work with. As more members submit measurements we could we an average because I know there was some variation??


Thanks a million, I was starting to think that early A owners didn't have any interest in better exhaust. The only reason I'm going through all this trouble is that I have had so many requests (at least 10-12) from early A owners about the large hole manifolds I sell and I can never give them a definitive answer except, "other members have actually done it".

Thanks again,
Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Here's what it looks like now that I've done all the cutting/trimming and taped the two pieces together. I should be able to weld it up tomorrow. It looks like it will give you a least 1 inch extra clearance above the torsion bar. I'm thinking about producing these for members who install 340 driver manifolds in early As and 67 and up A bodies.


Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Well, this came out pretty nice for my first try. It needs a little clean up and maybe a little wire feed welder touch up but otherwise should flow very nicely while affording maximum clearance. That's some 2 1/2" super tight radius mandrel bent pipe so it should flow about as good as possible considering the location of the manifold exit.

STILL LOOKING FOR A VOLUNTEER!! I ALREADY HAVE ONE MEMBER WHO AGREED TO GET ME SOME EARLY a ENGINE COMPARTMENT MEASUREMENTS.

Treblig

 

[Treblig]

I had the pleasure of talking to "Dartwizer" (very nice man) this morning. He's working on a '63 Valiant SW. He plans on installing a 360 into his ride. He was kind enough to call me and give me the measurements I was asking for. He measured about 28 1/8" between the shock tower sheet metal (below the upper shock mount grommet and above the alignment cam inner fender dimples). He was also able to measure between the dimples, 26 3/4" nearest the fire wall and 27 1/4" nearest the radiator. I believe the manifolds should usually be located above the dimples so the dimples shouldn't be a problem but I don't own an early A so I'm not positive!! "Dartwizer" was kind enough to let me call him again if I had any other questions or measurements.
In the pic I attached you can just see the cam alignment dimples sticking out just below the magnum manifolds in my '69 Barracuda. As other members measure their engine bay inner fenders we can start determining the amount of variation found in these cars. "Dartwizer" also stated that he didn't see a big problem with physically spreading the inner fender 1/4" to make a little extra clearance for the magnum manifolds. To tell you the truth, you only need to create space on the passenger's side because there are no clearance issues with the inner fender on the driver's side.
More to come.


PS - Still looking for volunteer (see first post of this thread).
Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Here is where there might be a problem with spreading the fender on the passenger's side on any A body. The brace/support that stiffens the inner fender and also helps support the shock and upper control arm is tack welded to the inner fender in the area that the magnum manifold would normally be. Of course if your front end was already disassembled (like Dartwizer) it would be a simple task of heating the brace with a torch (where you want it to flex) then apply pressure from the inside of the fender well. Then after you put your engine in there will be plenty of room for the magnum manifold. I realize than many members probably wouldn't want to distort or bend their fender well but it's a good option for many members. It doesn't need to be bent very much, an 1/8" would probably be plenty. We'll see......
See pics.

Treblig

 

[Dartwizer]

On the 63 that I have ,noticed there is a slight gap between the inner fender and the shock tower brace..Maybe enough to get a little more clearance.I"ll know shortly if it does..Going to mock up the engine with cast iron heads...everything is out of the way so its easier to check.If anyone else has a early A-body,see if you have the same dimensions. Trebling,It was good to talk with you today,,,your doing a great job to help us,,Thanks

 

[Treblig]

On the 63 that I have ,noticed there is a slight gap between the inner fender and the shock tower brace..Maybe enough to get a little more clearance.I"ll know shortly if it does..Going to mock up the engine with cast iron heads...everything is out of the way so its easier to check.If anyone else has a early A-body,see if you have the same dimensions. Trebling,It was good to talk with you today,,,your doing a great job to help us,,Thanks

Just remembered that someone (think it was RRR) wrote that you can sometimes loosen the steering column at the firewall and scoot it away from the engine. It won't move very much but when you install the late 60s 340 driver's manifold you don't need much clearance on the steering shaft to get it to fit. Sometimes it only takes 1/16" of movement to clear the steering shaft without having to make major modifications to the steering shaft/joint

Treblig

 

[Treblig]

I'm still looking for an EARLY A owner willing to volunteer to do a small experiment using a late 60s 340 driver's manifold and a 360 magnum passenger. Please read the first post of this thread along with all the other posts so you can get an idea of what you might have to do to accomplish this task.

Thanks,
Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Remember that I'm willing to work with whoever volunteers when it comes to prices. I can let the "flared" stub pipes and flange adapters go for my cost. I will even let you have the super tight radius custom made down pipe for my cost. I know I have had at least 8-10 early A body owners ask me about these great flowing manifolds so I know you guy/gals are out there. Please read the very first post in this thread to get all the details. I am flexible (to a degree) on the manifold prices for a serious Early A owner who is willing to properly document the whole process. Again, I get no benefit from this experiment!! The purpose of this experiment is to help Early A owners who are always looking for better exhaust options!!

treblig

 

[bonehead]

now that you have me messed up...i have a 64 318 mag efi...od trans...power steering... dics on all four... used 273 manafolds with no clearance problems... dual exhaust...i live in sw ark... mena...message me if interested

 

[Treblig]

now that you have me messed up...i have a 64 318 mag efi...od trans...power steering... dics on all four... used 273 manafolds with no clearance problems... dual exhaust...i live in sw ark... mena...message me if interested

I sent you a PM. Let me know what you have in mind if you've all of this thread.

Treblig

 

[Treblig]

Well it's the weekend again and I'm still looking for a volunteer to help other Early A owners with their exhaust manifold issues. Please read the first post of this thread and let me know.

treblig

 

[waggin]

I have had the 340 manifolds on my 64 dart convertible. they will not fit with power steering at all

 

[Hipo65]

Man,if my exhaust wasnt in great shape (factoy hi-po 273 single with res.) from manafolds back id use the ol GT for a lab rat! lol. I have man. stearing & brakes.

 

[salinasjoel]

Were the hipo 273 manifolds any different?

 

[Treblig]

Were the hipo 273 manifolds any different?

Any different than what??

treblig

 

[Treblig]

Man,if my exhaust wasnt in great shape (factoy hi-po 273 single with res.) from manafolds back id use the ol GT for a lab rat! lol. I have man. stearing & brakes.

And you're not too far away!! You could always sell you exhaust system.
Treblig

 

[salinasjoel]

Any different than what?? treblig

the typical 273 manifolds... Just curious because my service manual didn't specify they were differenf

 

[Treblig]

the typical 273 manifolds... Just curious because my service manual didn't specify they were differenf

I tried many times to figure out any difference. I still don't know what the difference is or if there is any??

Treblig