confounded P/S Bracket need a second set of eyes eyes and your thoughts.

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AlV

AlV

Crabs in a barrel
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Well I have been trying to wrap my head around how to get the power steering pump mounted to the 340.

I've come to the conclusion that I may be the root of the cause of my troubles.

When rebuilding the engine (a 69 340), I used the cast iron water pump and the 70 and up timing cover. I picked up a Saginaw pump and the brackets thinking it should be a straight forward install but I cannot figure out how to hang this thing. It seems that the outlet of the water pump is getting in the way.

What am I missing? Do I need different brackets? How would you hang the pump

This is my pump setup

Brackets

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd....737_679306375485073_1256043467561093032_n.jpg

Pump

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/...4-8DF2-4168-90BB-1ECF4C1C9717_zpshqusgtdr.jpg

Engine



Thanks in advance for you help.This is making me nuts :banghead:
 
When you change one item from the older 69 and earlier style set up, it opens a whole can of worms if to dont use all of the corresponding brackets and pulleys from the same year! By changing the timing cover to the later style, you now need all of the brackets and pulleys from a 70 and up motor! Its hell, but you'll find that things don't line up, brackets put things in the wrong places, you will now not be able to see your timing marks, the balancer will have to be remarked and you won't be able to see it anyway!! If you haven't hung the alternator yet, you're in for a joyride there as well!!

Gotta keep apples with apples!! Geof
 
Cosgig hit it right on the head!! I had the same issues with my 69 340, but gradually got everything I need(or so I hope!!)
 
A lesson I am learning the hard way.

Truths be told at the time I could not find a 69 cover for the life of me. Posting want adds on the forum searching eBay and Craig's list. Even Tony D didn't have one. As far as I could tell they only repop'ed the 70+ cover so I settled for that :( I read on the forum that guys have used the later covers even though the timing mark was covered and used tape or even earlier timing bracket from a 67.

That being said I didn't see the looming pitfall with the P/S until now.

I've resigned myself to using timing tape for the time being.

What are my options for mounting the pump with the setup I have now?
I think the brackets I have now are from a 70+ Car. Are there other brackets I should be looking for?

I notice ed buchelon (however that's spelled) sells a modified pressure hose for this kind of thing. But can't tell if they sell bracketed that would help resolve my dilemma.

Anyone else run into this?
 
4spdragtop said:
Cosgig hit it right on the head!! I had the same issues with my 69 340, but gradually got everything I need(or so I hope!!)
Click to expand...

If you wouldn't mind me asking.. What did you end doing to resolve the issue and which pieces did you get?
 
AlV said:
If you wouldn't mind me asking.. What did you end doing to resolve the issue and which pieces did you get?
Click to expand...

My car orig was NON PS, so I didnt have the PS pump to wrestle with. BUT Im a picky bugger and it took me a while to find the correct single groove crank pulley LOL.
Check this link out, I got lots of help from fabo.
Also I "may" have a correct ps pump with bracket...not sure though. I will have to chk when I get home this weekend.
Ok nuff blabbing here's the link

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=208542
 
4spdragtop said:
My car orig was NON PS, so I didnt have the PS pump to wrestle with. BUT Im a picky bugger and it took me a while to find the correct single groove crank pulley LOL.
Check this link out, I got lots of help from fabo.
Also I "may" have a correct ps pump with bracket...not sure though. I will have to chk when I get home this weekend.
Ok nuff blabbing here's the link

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=208542
Click to expand...
Thanks Steve! I hope you do have something to help. Please let me know when you get a chance.
This thread looks very enlightening I'm reading now.

Btw, blab away.. I don't mind lol

Al
 
Wow! I just read the George R. 69 340 Swinger Build...amazing.

And I see the way he has the P/S pump mounted to the water pump. It looks like I'll need different brackets. I just have to figure out which ones those are.

attachment.php


Anyone have insight?
 
I have a couple power steering setups upstairs! Ill take the camera with your pics up there when its light and see if I can come up with the correct setup for you! Ill check for some alternator brackets also! Geof
 
The problems you are dealing with is why I went with a 70 and newer set up on my 69 Dart. Unless your doing a restore of an original,you will be miles and headaches ahead if you do the same. The 70 and newer stuff was used unchanged for many years on car and trucks making it easier to locate.
 
AlV said:
Dang! and you had the timing tabs also! Krazykuda snapped them up :)
Click to expand...

Timing tabs are for the 67 and older sb's.
Proper timing cover you want is 2946796 or 97. 97 is the casting # on the cover.
Here is a pic
 

Attachments

  • sb timing cover.jpg
    83.8 KB · Views: 244
Thanks for the part #number and picture.
I would pick one up for a fair price if I can find it. Last few I saw sold for 50 bucks but I was late to the party. Then I was offered one for 125 and needless to say I didn't bite.
 
AlV said:
Were they using the Saginaw pump in 69?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Use of the Saginaw vs Round Neck (Federal) is very intertwined. Rear gear ratio, a/c, manual vs auto can all be factors in which one originally came in car.

Not sure if the buildsheet will tell you what pump was originally on car. 3.55 and 3.91 optioned rear end cars seem more likely to get round neck. A/C 68-71 340 cars seem to always have round necks.

Are you are looking for concours resto or just what works or what work well.

In my experiance the saginaw is more durable. And if you are making quick manuavers some federal pumps can not keep up.
 
It's not a concourse correct build but it will be very nice :) I don't have the build sheet for this car.
Going with the 70 timing cover has thrown it off. But I do have the 69 style cast iron water pump.

I have a Saginaw ...but to answer your question.
It makes sense to go with what works best.
 
if anything off a magnum motor will work,i have all my factory parts on here for sale. all pulleys p/s mount and alt mount.
 
AlV said:
It's not a concourse correct build but it will be very nice :) I don't have the build sheet for this car.
Going with the 70 timing cover has thrown it off. But I do have the 69 style cast iron water pump.

I have a Saginaw ...but to answer your question.
It makes sense to go with what works best.
Click to expand...

The water pump dictates the power steering pump brackets.

You need the style that is on the blue motor pictured above. There are just two brackets. Pretty simple.
 
autoxcuda said:
The water pump dictates the power steering pump brackets.

You need the style that is on the blue motor pictured above. There are just two brackets. Pretty simple.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. The two bracket configuration as seen on George R.'s 69 car should work. But I don't think it's a Saginaw.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=37916&stc=1&d=1218364429

I may be in Luck... Tony D thinks he has the pump setup I need.

Does anyone have or know of a 69 Timing cover for sale?
 
AlV said:
I was thinking the same. The two bracket configuration as seen on George R.'s 69 car should work. But I don't think it's a Saginaw.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=37916&stc=1&d=1218364429

I may be in Luck... Tony D thinks he has the pump setup I need.

Does anyone have or know of a 69 Timing cover for sale?
Click to expand...

I may be in Luck... Tony D thinks he has the pump setup I need.
Click to expand...

Ouch $$$ that could be painful.

Try posting a wanted ad here and it might save you a lot of $$. All you need is the brackets. The pump can be had new at rockauto. Getting an early oval can might be a problem. They just slide off with three bolts in the back.

That's a oval headed Saginaw pump.

The later mid 70's ones have a rectangular looking can to them.

Here's the basic Saginaw setup. Those two spacers on the bottom don't look quite right to me.

4678045-4060DBB5.jpg



The setup on the left is a 70-up brackets with mid 70's rectangular Saginaw pump.

The setup on the right is a 68-69 oval Saginaw pump with cast iron water pump brackets.

4783767-pump%2520001.jpg
 
I just sold a set of early Saginaw brackets for a cast iron water pump. They are a little hard to find, but the Federal brackets are more plentiful.
The Saginaw pump is a superior pump over the TRW and Federal.
 
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