Degenerative Disc Disease

[grassy]

I have tried mary jane for my pain...and got absolutely 0 pain relief. I am in WA state, where it is "legal" for recreational use....see my above statement about a fixed income.....

Was the strain you smoked, bred for your type of pain ?

For sleep, I use purple urkle, for pain, another. That is why the new Canadian MMAR was flawed. Folks grow the strain that works for them best. With the new legislation, only a half a dozen strains would be offered... and many of us grow pure organically... and I juice so I was totally left out..

Here is one small article http://www.unitedpatientsgroup.com/...ch-medical-marijuana-strain-is-right-for-you/

 

[roccodart440]

If I did not take narcotic pain meds I could not get out of bed in the morning. the medical mj....what a foolish name for it....like it is grown any different than recreational mj....I have tried mary jane for my pain...and got absolutely 0 pain relief. I am in WA state, where it is "legal" for recreational use....see my above statement about a fixed income.....

I have tried an inversion table.....0 relief......chiropractic......0 relief......glucosimine....0 relief...

I suppose if you messed up bad enough that none of those things work, i'd look into the surgery as last ditch option.

I only wrote medical mj becaseu I wasn't sure what the rules of the board were. So I stated in in a legal way.

I'll take my chances with Vicodin because I don't believe it's side effects are any worse than burning up brain cells. I also tried chiropractic (5 different chiropractors in fact), and glucosamine and had 0 relief... My wife has an inversion table that helps her but it aggravates my back more.

Vicodin is far more harmful to the body than THC. It makes sense that you would avoid it given your past, however Vicotin is habit forming, addictive and is a narcotic.

Was the strain you smoked, bred for your type of pain ?

For sleep, I use purple urkle, for pain, another. That is why the new Canadian MMAR was flawed. Folks grow the strain that works for them best. With the new legislation, only a half a dozen strains would be offered... and many of us grow pure organically... and I juice so I was totally left out..

Here is one small article http://www.unitedpatientsgroup.com/...ch-medical-marijuana-strain-is-right-for-you/

I wasn't aware of strains for different purposes but it makes sense. I am aware of the 2 types of plants. One is indica and the other..oh I forget. But one is basily an upper type of effect, the other a down. One gives you that couch lock and sleep. The other you realize 4 hours later you just did all the launry, clwaned the house, rearaged the furniture and listened to a pink floyd albom several times over, lol.

 

[grassy]

One gives you that couch lock and sleep. The other you realize 4 hours later you just did all the launry, clwaned the house, rearaged the furniture and listened to a pink floyd albom several times over, lol.

There are now hundreds of strains...and the folks that do the breeding have really zero'ed in the strains to particular needs..

 

[roccodart440]

There are now hundreds of strains...and the folks that do the breeding have really zero'ed in the strains to particular needs..

That is great news. It's about time the Us embraces hemp and cannibus for the superplant it is.

 

[fishy68]

Vicodin is far more harmful to the body than THC. It makes sense that you would avoid it given your past, however Vicotin is habit forming, addictive and is a narcotic.

I have spoken to several medical doctors and I will agree most don't want you to take Vicodin for an extended period but most understand how living with terrible chronic pain is and give it to you. I have read quite a bit on both and can't agree that Vicodin is more harmful than marijuana. Marijuana burns up your brain cells. What does Vicodin do that is more harmful than that? I agree Vicodin is habit forming and addictive but smoking pot is also habit forming and addictive and far more mind altering.

The term "Narcotic" is used by many like it's the greatest evil that ever faced us. While it does have side effects (every medicine has side affects) I'm not convinced it's any worse than at least 3/4 of any other medicines out there. I also have real high blood pressure and went through numerous medicines (at least 20) before they found something that worked and didn't have a bad side affect. I take 2 BP meds a day and have more side effects (constant lung congestion) from them than taking Vicodin.

Just so no one misunderstands I'm not trying to say taking Vicodin is the best thing to do or it's not harmful, just saying it's not this great evil it's made out to be. In my case it works the best and has the least side affects of any pain relief drug I've used. If I need to drive somewhere and my back is hurting I can take a Vicodin (I take 5-325's) or 2 with no mind altering affects. You can't smoke a joint and do that.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia on narcotics

When used in a legal context in the U.S., a narcotic drug is simply one that is totally prohibited, or one that is used in violation of strict governmental regulation, such as ****** or morphine.

From a pharmacological standpoint it is not a useful term,[3] as is evinced by the historically varied usage of the word.

Here's the full article I took it from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic

Just my .02

 

[roccodart440]

I have read quite a bit on both and can't agree that Vicodin is more harmful than marijuana. Marijuana burns up your brain cells. What does Vicodin do that is more harmful than that? I agree Vicodin is habit forming and addictive but smoking pot is also habit forming and addictive and far more mind altering.

As far as the body is concerned, Vicodin is very liver toxic. Number one issue. THC is not.

As far as it's effect on the mind. Long term effects of Vicodin can include damage to the pleasure center. This can lead feelings of depression, anxiety, paranoia, psychosis, and mood swings. People may feel irritable or anxious, and in severe cases they may begin to experience delusions or hallucinations.THC does not "burn brain cells. Some of the most brilliant people in our society past and present use THC in some form. We've alreadyb listened to people in this thread talk of suicidal thoughts. THC is used to reduce depression in terminal patients.

Dependancy vs. habit forming: THC can certainly be habit forming as can Vicodin. Vicodin has physical dpendancy and withdrawl symptoms, THC does not. Withdrawal symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, joint and muscle pain, irritability, anxiety, depression, difficulty sleeping, and difficulty concentrating. People also become resistant to Vicodin, requiring higher doses for the same effect. SOme people build tolerance to THC. I've never noticed this myself. You yourself said you can take 2-5 V's with no mind altering effects. I coudln't come close to that.

On a side note I have never liked THC and driving. I would not drive while under it's effects unless I absolutely had to.

 

[rnaz]

I have spoken to several medical doctors and I will agree most don't want you to take Vicodin for an extended period but most understand how living with terrible chronic pain is and give it to you. I have read quite a bit on both and can't agree that Vicodin is more harmful than marijuana. Marijuana burns up your brain cells. What does Vicodin do that is more harmful than that? I agree Vicodin is habit forming and addictive but smoking pot is also habit forming and addictive and far more mind altering.

The term "Narcotic" is used by many like it's the greatest evil that ever faced us. While it does have side effects (every medicine has side affects) I'm not convinced it's any worse than at least 3/4 of any other medicines out there. I also have real high blood pressure and went through numerous medicines (at least 20) before they found something that worked and didn't have a bad side affect. I take 2 BP meds a day and have more side effects (constant lung congestion) from them than taking Vicodin.

Just so no one misunderstands I'm not trying to say taking Vicodin is the best thing to do or it's not harmful, just saying it's not this great evil it's made out to be. In my case it works the best and has the least side affects of any pain relief drug I've used. If I need to drive somewhere and my back is hurting I can take a Vicodin (I take 5-325's) or 2 with no mind altering affects. You can't smoke a joint and do that.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia on narcotics

Here's the full article I took it from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic

Just my .02

Totally agree with the part about Vicodin/opioid painkillers. If they're used properly, they don't present any more "danger" than anything else does. It's the abuse potential, and people taking them to get high instead of their intended use that gives them a bad name.

 

[grassy]

On a side note I have never liked THC and driving. I would not drive while under it's effects unless I absolutely had to.

With 1 joint I get serious coach plant...I cannot do anything except enjoy the feeling of no pain and sleep...

 

[roccodart440]

Totally agree with the part about Vicodin/opioid painkillers. If they're used properly, they don't present any more "danger" than anything else does. It's the abuse potential, and people taking them to get high instead of their intended use that gives them a bad name.

It is highly liver toxic. Medically it's classified as being moderate in it's toxicity. Have you ever looks at liver enzyme values froma patient that has used tylenol for a couple weeks for pain or for fever say at 1,000mg QED? I have, they are most often elevated. Chronic users exhibit similer results to an alcoholic. The biggest threat to Vicodin is not the narcotic/opiat as most would think. It's actually the Aceptometiphen it contains. It is one of the top 10 most dangerous over the counter drugs sold.

Listen, if you need it to get by, use it, but don't be fooled into thinking it is safe like taking a multivitamin or something. It isn't. I guess i've seen the darkside of this drug and ones like it too many times.

 

[rnaz]

It is highly liver toxic. Medically it's classified as being moderate in it's toxicity. Have you ever looks at liver enzyme values froma patient that has used tylenol for a couple weeks for pain or for fever say at 1,000mg QED? I have, they are most often elevated. Chronic users exhibit similer results to an alcoholic. The biggest threat to Vicodin is not the narcotic/opiat as most would think. It's actually the Aceptometiphen it contains. It is one of the top 10 most dangerous over the counter drugs sold.

Listen, if you need it to get by, use it, but don't be fooled into thinking it is safe like taking a multivitamin or something. It isn't. I guess i've seen the darkside of this drug and ones like it too many times.

We're saying the exact same thing. If you use them as they're intended to be used, and don't abuse them, they aren't as harmful as they're made out to be. They're not good for you by any means.

My doctor has me get blood work done a few times per year, and the primary reason is LFT's.

You obviously know something about the medical field, so I'm sure you're aware that they have recently cut the level of acetaminophen down drastically in the dosages that they're made in. I'm not surprised even a little bit about that move.

 

[fishy68]

We're saying the exact same thing. If you use them as they're intended to be used, and don't abuse them, they aren't as harmful as they're made out to be. They're not good for you by any means.

My doctor has me get blood work done a few times per year, and the primary reason is LFT's.

You obviously know something about the medical field, so I'm sure you're aware that they have recently cut the level of acetaminophen down drastically in the dosages that they're made in. I'm not surprised even a little bit about that move.

I was just going to say this. When I first started taking them I took 5-500's. A few yrs. ago they reduced the volume of acetaminophen to 325 mg per tab. I'm glad cause acetaminophen never did anything for me and everything I read says it's hard on the liver.

 

[rnaz]

I was just going to say this. When I first started taking them I took 5-500's. A few yrs. ago they reduced the volume of acetaminophen to 325 mg per tab. I'm glad cause acetaminophen never did anything for me and everything I read says it's hard on the liver.

I'm glad they did it too. I've always gotten more relief for mild pain from ibuprofen anyway.

 

[roccodart440]

My doctor has me get blood work done a few times per year, and the primary reason is LFT's.

You obviously know something about the medical field, so I'm sure you're aware that they have recently cut the level of acetaminophen down drastically in the dosages that they're made in. I'm not surprised even a little bit about that move.

You have a good doctor. I have for several reason a pretty extrnsive knowledge in the medical field. I was not aware they altered the percentages in this drug but am glad they did. THanks for the update.

When I first started taking them I took 5-500's. A few yrs. ago they reduced the volume of acetaminophen to 325 mg per tab. I'm glad cause acetaminophen never did anything for me and everything I read says it's hard on the liver.

Thumbs up

I'm glad they did it too. I've always gotten more relief for mild pain from ibuprofen anyway.

RNAZ, try Nurofen. It is the opiat combined with ibuprofen instead of acetometiphen.

 

[rnaz]

You have a good doctor. I have for several reason a pretty extrnsive knowledge in the medical field. I was not aware they altered the percentages in this drug but am glad they did. THanks for the update.



Thumbs up



RNAZ, try Nurofen. It is the opiat combined with ibuprofen instead of acetometiphen.

Hmmm...that's something to consider, for sure! I may talk to my doc about it next time I see him.

 

[1970-dart]

Well they got me on 1800 mg a day and i don't think it helping because I have always had good and bad days and most days are pain almost to actually unbearable all day long. They are going to up my pills to 2700 mg a day ( that's as high as I will go)and see where that goes but I have been like this so long who no relief I don't see that helping.

I have lost 32 pounds and will keep on plugging away at it in holes that will help but again I don't expect it to because I was like this before I gained the extra weight.

I have not done to much research yet because I just found out today that what he wants to do once and if I ever am ready is called a gill procedure without fusion. So no fusion because I have little to no actual back pain and just the pinched nerve pain from my *** to my ankle lol

I have been like this for ten years and as I said before countless hours of PT and spinal Injections and different meds with little to no relief. So I'm going to give it until the end of the year and if not better I'm going to get it done and see what happens. I will give the meds another few months and then they are out of here if no help.


Hope this is readable seeings I suck at typing on a big screen and this phone is worse but auto correct is sometimes a nightmare also.

 

[rnaz]

Have they talked to you about a spinal stimulator implant? My orthopedic doctor doesn't want to do a fusion yet because of the same basic reasons, and I have been looking into it.
The only thing I don't like about the idea is that they have to go back into your back once every 5 years or so to change batteries.

 

[1970-dart]

That sounds like a good option for some people but I'm not sure how that would work in my case. The opening in my spine where the nerve exits it narrowed and pinching on the nerve and with PT and injections not working to free it up and meds so far not helping with the pain. I'm not sure what else could free up that nerve other than opening the the space back up some. And this seems like a pretty non evasive surgery compared to others where if I had actual back pain/problems beyond just the pinched nerve than If I needed this and a fusion.

 

[inkjunkie]

Have not read this entire thread, seemed like I may have set myself up for a bit of a bashing....

My doc has a good understanding of what I am going thru. He has me sign a "pain contract" in order to give me Oxycontin/Oxyxodone. Pretty sure this is law here in Washington state. Part of it is I agree to not seek meds anywhere else. And I am subject to a random "pee in a cup" test...which I get done yearly. I recently had a problem with the mail order pharmacy I was using and ended up needing and "Emergency Script" to get me by. This resulted in "pee in the cup test" even though I just had one 2 months prior. After I was heard "venting" about this my doc explained it to me, the DEA as well as the State of WA closely monitor narcotic prescriptions, anything out of the ordinary, as far as prescriptions go, will trigger a test.
Not saying Mary Jane does not work but....is Medical MJ really any different than pot? I feel it is just a term that aging stoners use so they don't feel they are doing something that would have them looked at as somewhat of a criminal. The previous statement is just my own feelings, nothing more. IF you ever walked into a "medical Pot Shop" here in Spokane you may understand why... Before ALL the Medical MJ shops were shut down here in Spokane it was a pretty bizarre system. At least as far as I saw it. My doc would not write the recommendation for pot. So you had to take a copy of your records to a doctor in a clinic downtown. Was called Green Wellness or something like that. They would read over your records and if they found anything chronic they would fill out the forms for you. After getting the card you would then either grow your own, which is what I did or go buy it in a store. If buying it in a store you just walked in, showed them your card and picked out what you wanted. There was no "bred for your type of pain" crap. Will never grow it again. The way the laws were written I was allowed x amount of plants per card. "Borrowed" a friends card as well. I grew 21 big beautiful Blue Dream plants. Damn electric bill for that period was over 2k. By the time you add in all the "organic fertilizers" etc the bill was up past 5k. All out of my pocket. The relief it bought me was not any where near worth it. Not to mention I had to grow in the winter, inside. Thanks to the intense heat from the sodium grow lamps, which were borrowed...if I had purchased them it would have been closer to 7k out of pocket, the garden room temperature was way to high if I tried to run them during the day. The plants need to be watered while the lights are on, twice daily on average, to avoid mold which meant I basically slept when I could for 3+ months. No thanks, far to much like work for me. And to go buy "Medical Marijuana" at a shop was WAY out of my price range. So thanks but no thanks...I will stick to what my doc can give me...and is not only "legal" on the state level but on the federal level as well.
I will say that I learned alot....and some day, when/if our house ever gets built and I get in the position to have an indoor garden again I will do it again....only this time it will be lettuce, peppers etc.

On a final note, I now have asthma. So smoking is out of the question....Sure, we could bake brownies or what have you. But I have that damned addictive gene in me...which means I would probably just scarf the whole tray at once...which is pretty much what happens when Ernie bakes anything. She bakes a cake, it will be gone buy the end of the second day, if that long. She uses the caned frosting from a store, any left over is gone as soon as I see it. I did talk to a "friend" about having him cook me up some oil or whatever it is that is done with cases of butane....but after he blew up his shop one night he got out of it.

 

[inkjunkie]

Have they talked to you about a spinal stimulator implant? My orthopedic doctor doesn't want to do a fusion yet because of the same basic reasons, and I have been looking into it.
The only thing I don't like about the idea is that they have to go back into your back once every 5 years or so to change batteries.

I recently had a shoulder cut into. Was thought I had a slap tear, I did not...was just a gigantic bone spur. While in there she also finished off my bicep tendon, there was only a few fibers left holding it on. She did not clean out the rather extensive arthritis, she told me that once they go in and scrape it away it will just return with a vengeance. Something about once it is removed your body sees it as an injury and will produce more calcium to help heal itself...which in turn will only lead to more arthritis....or something like that.

Sorry for getting off subject.....but my doc has told me that he wants me to wait as long as I can for a fusion....with the thought being they may be able to just fuse a large area once instead of a going in multiple times.

Neighbor had that laser spinal cord deal done to ease the stenosis pain. 3 days later he was back under the gas again, apparently while they were in there they ruptured another disc. After the second issue was resolved and Sam went thru months of therapy he was off the pain meds...for 6 months....seems another area developed stenosis. Seen it mentioned earlier, as we age we all stand a good chance of degenerative disc disease. fact of life.....and often time ddd leads to stenosis...fact of life.....used to joke with a woman I worked with at the USPS...show me some one who has worked here for 25 years who does not hurt and you will be looking at some one who never worked...

Nuff rambling....need to hope on the scooter and go to town...again....Hope all is well with everyone...

 

[rnaz]

I recently had a shoulder cut into. Was thought I had a slap tear, I did not...was just a gigantic bone spur. While in there she also finished off my bicep tendon, there was only a few fibers left holding it on. She did not clean out the rather extensive arthritis, she told me that once they go in and scrape it away it will just return with a vengeance. Something about once it is removed your body sees it as an injury and will produce more calcium to help heal itself...which in turn will only lead to more arthritis....or something like that.

Sorry for getting off subject.....but my doc has told me that he wants me to wait as long as I can for a fusion....with the thought being they may be able to just fuse a large area once instead of a going in multiple times.

Neighbor had that laser spinal cord deal done to ease the stenosis pain. 3 days later he was back under the gas again, apparently while they were in there they ruptured another disc. After the second issue was resolved and Sam went thru months of therapy he was off the pain meds...for 6 months....seems another area developed stenosis. Seen it mentioned earlier, as we age we all stand a good chance of degenerative disc disease. fact of life.....and often time ddd leads to stenosis...fact of life.....used to joke with a woman I worked with at the USPS...show me some one who has worked here for 25 years who does not hurt and you will be looking at some one who never worked...

Nuff rambling....need to hope on the scooter and go to town...again....Hope all is well with everyone...

When I saw my orthopedic doc, he basically said the same thing: "Wait until you can't take it anymore because a fusion is a major undertaking, and it will have an effect on the discs above the joint."

 

[1970-dart]

Anybody dealt with or knows somebody who has dealt with the laser spine institute ??

 

[1970-dart]

I guess I would ask everybody to keep in mind that this is not to spark a debate on laser type surgery being good bad or indifferent. Specially seeing that the laser spine Institute does many procedures that don't involve lasers at all.

I'm not talking about uncle Joe's cousins neighbor that had a laser type procedure done at your local place.

I am talking about anybody here or somebody Close to you that has dealt specifically with the laser spine Institute.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cawley]

I was just told I have the same thing DDD. They told me I am to young for surgery. Icant be on my feet for a long time. If I am I get a pain in my lower middle back & if I don't sit down & take a break the pain goes into my hip & then down the front of my leg. It gets painful. I was told not to go back to my type of job. Im on my feet 9-12 hrs a day, on concrete. They want to put me on disability & then they will send me back to school to learn a job that I wont be on my feet a lot. Iam lost, not sure what to do. Cant believe I will make that much on disability. This is all new to me. I am 45 ive worked all my life & always on the go.This is going to put a damper on things I want to do.

 

[1970-dart]

I too am 45 I'm been dealing with this for a handful of years and surgery especially major surgery is always a last option. I have been through countless hours of PT and many other procedures and I don't have many if any options left

I would seriously question any doctor that flat out tells me I am too young for anything. I do surgeries on small children and I know 105-year-old lady that just had a hip replacement either way if I were you I would get second opinions.

Good luck and keep us informed

 

[inkjunkie]

Anybody dealt with or knows somebody who has dealt with the laser spine institute ??

We have some sort of Laser Spinal Surgery place here in Spokane...or at least we did. My Doc advised me to stay away form them. He said that they data they spew on there TV commercials is a bit skewed in there favor. He told me that while they do have a lot of success there claim of 95% or whatever they claim is not really accurate. I talked to a neighbor that was treated by them. He is in his mid 50's and had done labor type jobs his entire life. Just after the surgery he felt great. Got off the pain meds entirely....until another disc finished "wearing" out....then he was right back on the meds. While this no fault of the surgery it is a fact of life...if one disc is worn out to the point that you have ddd/stenosis chances are they all are. There is no magic pill here.....