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I won’t be using Doug’s headers I have never had trouble with TTI so I will stick to what I know
What I get out of all this is, if there is a good chance your going to have to beat the headers up just buy the cheap ones.If I had only Known.
Hey we live and learn. There's a lot of people who have absolutely great success with those Doug's headers. (Burger King) < (LOL voice command) people say how they don't touch anything and are easy to put in.. Of course I bought the 8-quart milodon Deep oil pan. Then when I had to cut my K frame dented all up to make it fit over the oil pump and that leaked from the factory well because according to their rap in California they can't use solve it anymore to test them.. as a matter of fact when he answered the phone and I told him what happened he quote said "not again!!"... Live and learn I wouldn't buy one of those pile of crap pants again. Of course I get out here and everybody tells me well that's a known problem...
I've never seen cheap headers make power. And I've tested this over and over. Somehow, you've decided that denting a header is a crime against nature. It's not. Make a small dent and move along. It's not just a Chrysler deal either. Any header, worth a crap, is going to be a TIGHT fit. These cars weren't designed for headers. It's that simple. There just isn't room. So back to what I said earlier, that you thought was getting off track. The headers SHOULD be 4 separate pieces per side. If the idiotic manufacturers would do this, they would be able to make a header that fit better. Of course, you'd NEVER get it on the car if it had weld on collectors. That's my point. Call Dougs, and TTI and anyone else and ask them why they don't do that. I'll tell you why. No one would buy them. They (the customer...who is never right) think the slip tubes will leak. They don't. One of my best customers came from a trip to a dirt track race. He had slip together, over the transome 180 degree headers. They were beautiful headers. He was being black flagged because the car was popping so loud going into the corners. That means he was breaking the noise limit. They (his crew and all the stooges that crowd around a car wanting to help but make stuff worse) were going to pull the headers and replace them with some junk. I happened to be there with the car owners buddy. So I said WTF are they changing headers for? They tell me the popping. I say what does the one have to do with the other...they ain't related? They say the header leaks because the of all the slip tubes. I had them pull a plug and I tell them it's pig rich, and the headers ain't the issue. And then the war of words start. I'm stupid. The headers are junk. The tune up is perfect (most of that coming from the stooge doing the tune up) and all the other crap you hear from people who have no idea what they are doing. I take 8 jet sizes out of the front and 10 from the rear and put a power valve back in it. The pop went away. Before that guy retired we were doing a dozen engines a year just because of that day. My point is, you are blaming the headers. And you should. But don't buy a junk header just because you have to dent it. I always hoped I'd live long enough to see this kind of thing corrected. But I won't.
I've had TTI's and Hedman Huslers. I'll take the Hedman everyday even if I do have to drill a hole in each side fenderwell. I spoke with Ryan Johnson years ago and he said the Hedman made more power than TTI's.
That Hedman is a good piece. Had them on the dyno and they work. My favorite non W2 header is the Hooker 5303 which is no longer made. They couldn't sell them because A) they are slip together and 2) everyone says they are too big. Neither of which is true.
I've only had cheap Summit headers let that be said straight off the gate and that's what I have now. After recently finding out the inner tubes on the dougs are no wider then the cheap summits, they have now been dropped completely off my radar.. no argument that there a more quality piece.
I know this may not help, but I had Dougs on my 65 360 Valiant. I had Schumacher /6 to small block mounts with a 904. They were single handedly the easiest headers I have ever installed.....on anything. All I did was follow the deestruckshuns step by step....yeah, you have to remove some stuff, but for it to have been any easier, they wouldda had to install themselves. I even kept the slant six center link because the pan didn't hit it. It was close, but it never hit. I didn't have to dent one single tube anywhere. I say all this because your story here makes me thing you have a mount issue.....maybe wrong ones, or maybe installed on the wrong side of the mount ears. Don't laugh too hard. I've done it myself. lol
The easiest headers I have ever installed was a set of Doug Thorley’s. They went over the steering linkage. Then like a fool when I went big block I gave them away. Kim
The bottom line here for me is, I will buy the cheap headers next time as long as they are coated and have some sort of track record with end user's. After this nightmare with Doug's I can't see beating up 600.00 street headers.I just have a hard time thinking my car is some how this fare out of spec. I have done everything I can think of to fix this mess and have made a little head way but these things are going to hit the T/bars and that's it.I have raised the motor 1/2", New trans mount, shimmed it 3/8" up,there just to wide. Some say It can't be the TFS heads that are a little wider, I am at the point I just don't care. I don't drive my car's enough that a cheaper header would be fine in my case. A few year's ago I bought a pair of OGX long tubes for one of my Fox body Mustangs with GT40P heads and just a small dimple where the steering shaft comes down they fit really nice and are Polhised stainless steel for about 200.00. I think they had something for the A body if I remember right. I know I will get a hard time about OBX but that's ok.
it's a sad State of Affairs at this day in age that they cannot make a header that fits. Lord forgive me for saying it but yellow rose has quite a point of making some headers that slip in much easier...
FWIW, I had a brand new set of TTI W2 headers where the drivers side just did NOT fit. I'm talking with engine on stand, not in the car. I called TTI and discussed with the owner Sam, he indicated the headers are made on a jig and could not be wrong. He did however agree that it was strange they were touching both the head, and oil pan. He was kind enough to send me a second drivers side header at his expense, to Canada on my word. The new header fit perfectly. Moral of the story, anything can be made incorrectly, and TTI went over and above on their customer service. How it was made incorrectly still remains a mystery.
I think a lot of times they are tacked together in a jig and then welded separately... Are these all high-dollar Union employees.... I've worked in high production welding shops for high-end products... I didn't know a thing about welding and was paid dirt and left soon after I had acquired a skill... Edit: they like turnover...
I have a brand new set to go on my Duster. Going to dyno engine with both these, and the Stahl headers it currently has.
That's my gut feeling on this, they are just a little off.
When you pay over double for something that dose not cost anymore to make or slightly more and it dose not fit that sucks.
You sure that's a Stahl header in the bottom picture? I'm betting that's a Hooker 5303 header. I have to walk out and look at my header to say for 100% sure. Also, I've found power with that Hooker header and a 3.5 inch collector.
One of the issues that crop up when design in a header that's one piece is compromises to make them go on in one piece. If they make them slip together, they can make them fit the car better, in ways they can't if they are one piece. It makes sense to me, and evidently you too. It actually makes sense to most of the header people I talk to. Convincing the customer it's better is another issue.
Upper photo is the Stahl set, lower picture is indeed the new set of 5303's I found. Sorry for any confusion.
How long before you get to the dyno? This should be an interesting test.
How long before you make an entry on your own Thread about your build?...
IDK. My mom is having surgery in about 10 days and then she has another one after that. So my engine is taking a back seat to all that.
Finally. I've been trying to figure out the make/model of the headers I have on the car, haven't had any luck. But once I had pics and a model # it was easy to confirm.