Engine Pro's Help please

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Mad Dart

Mad Dart

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I am in the middle of building a 410 stroker from an LA 360 Block. I am using an eagle 4340 crank and eagle H beam rods with SRP Dish pistons at 16.9 the girdle from Hughes was installed yesterday and the mains are getting line honed, the lifter bores are being sleeved as I write this. I am also converting it over to push rod oiling using Hughes stage 3 edelbrock heads port matched super victor with a 750 might demon with all the tricks from Don at FBO, 1.6 Hughes rockers with JOMAR valve train girdle and Hughes Hyd flat tappet cam specs

Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5.569"
.576"
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Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6.606"
.614"
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Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050"246°
250°
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Lobe Separation Angle108
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Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050"18° BTC
56° BBC
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Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050"48° ABC
14° ATC
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Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI185
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Sweet Spot RPM2800 - 6100

The compression will be 10.9:1, elevation is 1226, cylinder pressure will be in the 190 range and this is a 4spd................

I was told that the oiling holes that get machined in the sleeve need to be no more than .060 and that would get enough oil up through the pushrod to oil the top. When you reduce the oil flow like that does it have an effect on the over all oil pressure?? Will it sky rocket or??

Another question I am debating on swithing to a solid flat tappet or roller cam set up. I have already bought all my parts that are listed above, and am second guessing my cam choice. This build will mostly be used on the street.

Any input you may have will help............

Thanks.
 
I use .035 holes in the lifter bore bushings for most solid roller setups. I dont sleeve for hydraulic lifters, because the slot in the lifter in some is narrow and wont be near pressurized oil for very long. Add to it the flow for the upper end.. I'd say use the lifter feed hole as the minimum size (prob close to .060) because that will be the resriction. A larger hole will have pressure for a longer time than a smaller hole. I've never tried what you're doing.. you'll have to report back how well it works...
 
A! - O! , Louis, ka-mere, sit dwon a second.

I'll just commet on the cam and general build of the engine.

I think it's going to be a killer street set up! Stick with the cam for now since you allready have it and run it. Don't worry about it.

I neva heard of those oilong things before. I can not commet on them SOrry about that. Do so as Moper said, let us know.
 
Mad Dart said:
When you reduce the oil flow like that does it have an effect on the over all oil pressure?? Will it sky rocket or??
Click to expand...

The over all oil pressure you see on the gauge won't be affected because the oil pump has a relief valve that is preset to relieve at a determined pressure.
 
I didnt get a chance to read your responses until now.

Well, I bought a new cam today, I will use the other one for one of my other projects in the future.

New cam specs, Solid Flat tappet from HUGHES.

HTL5660AS
Camshaft Technical Details
Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5.579"
.587"
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Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6.614"
.626"
x.gif
Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050"256°
260°
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Lobe Separation Angle106
x.gif
Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050"25° BTC
59° BBC
x.gif
Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050"51° ABC
21° ATC
x.gif
Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI190
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Sweet Spot RPM2800 - 6600

Thanks alot for all your input. The motor should be getting assembled by next week.

I will keep you all posted on the progress.
 
Forgot to tell you guys I am using the COOL FACE SOLID lifters that Hughes sells. They have a oiling hole in the bottom to force pressurized oil on the lifter face and cam lobes.
 
The compression will be 10.9:1, elevation is 1226, cylinder pressure will be in the 190 range and this is a 4spd...............


How do you come up with this cranking compression? I am curious...that all.
 
I called HUGHES and Tim over there calculated it for me based off of the deck height, dish in the pistons etc. They ask a bunch of questions and calculate all the numbers, I guess they have a program.
 
Mad Dart said:
Forgot to tell you guys I am using the COOL FACE SOLID lifters that Hughes sells. They have a oiling hole in the bottom to force pressurized oil on the lifter face and cam lobes.
Click to expand...

Those are pretty sweet. A couple weeks back at Monster Mopar weekend they had a siminar and passed a set around and told how much more spring pressure they can handle. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was a nice increase.
 
Carb is too small, I'd go with a 1,000 or 950 cfm 4150 style carb. You have a four speed so run a double pumper. The driveability with the bigger carb will be way better, not to mention the top end charge.
 
Guitar Jones,

I was thinking the same thing moving to a 850 ET SLAYER Mighty Demon double pump with mechanical secondary's from Don at FBO. Don swears that the 750 will be more than big enough. He was telling me a 750 Demon is like having a 900+CFM Holly?

Don set me up on my last 340 with his ignition and his ET SLAYER 650 Mighty Demon Double Pump Mechanical Secondary's. I tell you what he was dead on. That little 340 straight out got down!!! I could not believe how good it ran. I used his tuning guide book, he knows his stuff for sure. Nothing but good things to say about Don, he is Very helpful.

I have all the parts except the carb. The short block should be done by Friday this week.

Anyway, I will call him when I order it in the next few weeks and see what he says based on the new cam and head choice.

Thanks for all your input guys, I like this site alot. Tons of great information.

Here is FBO's information on the ET SLAYER CARB Mighty Demon Upgrades.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/fbo__et_slayer_carburetors.htm
 
Honestly on the carb, $200 is a lot for no affect on your car. Those tricks are for drag cars, like ones where money and points are on the line. The 750 Demon equals an 850 or so 4150 series. IMO, that is a small carb, I start at 770 wet flowed and go up from there.
 
Mad Dart said:
Don swears that the 750 will be more than big enough.
Click to expand...


Trust Don...he knows what he's talking about. 750 worked by him would be fine...

Another option is ProSystems. He does Holley HP's and will build you just as nice a carb for a little less $$ and usually can do it within 5 days.
www.pros-systems.com.

Just another option to check out, FBO is certainly a good choice too.
 
Oops! Thanks for the correction...

Check him out. My buddy at work runs a 10sec Mustang with one of his carbs and loves it.
 
I was using a 750 on my 360 with a lot of custom tuning done to it. I then went to a ported 750 with an 850 base plate and the car picked up some. I then went to a worked 850 Demon that flows about 990 cfm. The performance and MPH picked up but amazingly enough the driveability and low speed characteristics improved dramatically. The car was easier to stage and drive through the pits.
 
Hey there,

I was reading in a mopar magazine a few days ago on the shelf at the store.

They were comparing Magnum Heads from Stock to Indy etc.

They had a head guru saying he tested the out of the box Edelbrock heads rated at 58cc..........get this and they were at 62.5cc instead, the guy thought he was wrong so he did it again and came out to 62.5cc........

Whats up with that claiming 58cc??????? Is that so you can mill the heads down for a compensating factor??

Depending on the build this could cause a 1 point reduction in the compression ratio no??

This would suck thinking you are going to be a 11-1 compression ratio and end up at about 10.25-1 or so.

If this is the case then the Engine Quest heads would be a better dollar spend besides the weight difference no???

I was going to buy the stage 3 edelbrock magnums from Hughes for my 410 stroker and end up at 11-1 compression ratio. Now I just might to the Iron Rams Fully Ported and shave them down a bit........this would save over 1k in the costs and the flow is almost exactly the same.

I have the bottom end assembled and all the go fast goodies to make 580-600Hp with over 520 tq. I just dont want to screw up the build with the wrong head choice.

Your thoughts???
 
Go with the Stage 3 Edelbrocks if you can afford it. I like the Engine Quest heads but you can't beat the weight savings of aluminum.
 
I'm not sure where you got the 58cc thing. IIRC all heads have the 63cc chambers, which realistically can be anywhere from 62-65...lol. I see a lot of guys stuck on Hughes. They get overpaid for what they do, Edelbrocks w/stage 3, plus matched springs, retainers, and locks cost $3K. And the Iron Rams simply will not support that kind of power yet Hughes is pushing them. IMO this is because the markup on them is MUCH more than Edelbrocks. LA RPMs max out at about 290cfm on most benches. If you indeed need that much power, a better set of heads would be the Indy-Brocks that use offset intake rockers. In any event, you set the chamber size. You dont buy and figure "why would they lie".
 
moper said:
I'm not sure where you got the 58cc thing. IIRC all heads have the 63cc chambers, which realistically can be anywhere from 62-65...lol. I see a lot of guys stuck on Hughes. They get overpaid for what they do, Edelbrocks w/stage 3, plus matched springs, retainers, and locks cost $3K. And the Iron Rams simply will not support that kind of power yet Hughes is pushing them. IMO this is because the markup on them is MUCH more than Edelbrocks. LA RPMs max out at about 290cfm on most benches. If you indeed need that much power, a better set of heads would be the Indy-Brocks that use offset intake rockers. In any event, you set the chamber size. You dont buy and figure "why would they lie".
Click to expand...

The Edelbrock magnum heads are rated at 58 cc chambers according to Eddy's website but all the others are rated at 63 ccs although I know your right about no heads being just what the book says they are. BTW: As far as Hughes getting overpaid your probably right but I bet that can be said about alot of businesses doing the same type job. There's not alot of guys that don't try to poke ya when you get stuff from them. JMHO
 
I will hopefully go back to the store soon buy the magazine and scan the article in so you all can read it yourselfs. These were not my words.

Hughes Engines seems to be almost a dirty word among the members of this site. I know they are very bias toward their knowledge of the Mopar Performance world, but I think most everyone who owns any type of business has to believe they are better than the next guy. If not something would be wrong in my opinion. I dont really care who sells me my parts as long as I dont get ripped off and the combination gets the results that I am looking for.

Edelbrock does rate their magnum heads at 58cc like fishy68 said. I just dont understand why if they are 62.5 straight out of the box. That is the issue I have with them, not that they sell a bad product or not use them.
 
Mad Dart said:
Hughes Engines seems to be almost a dirty word among the members of this site. I know they are very bias toward their knowledge of the Mopar Performance world, but I think most everyone who owns any type of business has to believe they are better than the next guy. If not something would be wrong in my opinion. I dont really care who sells me my parts as long as I dont get ripped off and the combination gets the results that I am looking for.

Edelbrock does rate their magnum heads at 58cc like fishy68 said. I just dont understand why if they are 62.5 straight out of the box. That is the issue I have with them, not that they sell a bad product or not use them.
Click to expand...

Mad, Having spoken to Dave on an occasion or two, yes, I tend to use others before him. (as I'm sure you could guess...lol). Honestly, there are polar opposite opinions regarding the business. Not just this site, but every mopar site. Because some can take the 'tude, some decide not to have to. I'm in that latter group. My point was, the attitude is deserved when it comes to "been there, done that." But having been "in the business" in various forms over the years, I recognize there is a lot that is deliberately skewed to bias people toward their stuff. I also recognize that there are other less expensive options when that bias is removed. I apologize if I got your feathers ruffled. The bill, and the result are yours entirely. So long as you are confortable in the return for the investment, other opinions simply dont really matter.
As for Edelbrock's Magnums... I've never used them, but I thought I recalled them supposed to be the same chamber size in volume, but a slightly better design than the LAs... So facts vs my memory... I'll trust your facts...lol.
 
Mad Dart said:
I will hopefully go back to the store soon buy the magazine and scan the article in so you all can read it yourselfs. These were not my words.
Click to expand...

Was that the article that compared stock magnum heads, EQ heads, Eddy heads, MP aluminum and iron magnums, and chevy LT1 heads? If so I have it. If you want I can scan and post it.

I was surprised to see the outcome.
 
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