Feel like my 440 should be faster

[273]

Thank you for explaining the science behind the theory. Perhaps you can explain the science of going faster as torque is going down hill after the 5200 rpm. Say your peak torque is 475ft# at 4400 with your 440, yet at 6200 its 365. is the cars acceleration slowing proportional to the torque/rpm equation?

The higher rpm you turn your engine the higher the percentage of torque, hp is.
Everyone knows hp is a 100% of torque at 5252 rpm. But at every other rpm hp % of torque is also fixed. eg. 1313 rpm hp is 25% of torque which is also 25% of the rpm of 5252 rpm.
So multiples of 1313 rpm like 2626 rpm hp is 50% of torque and 6565 rpm is 125% etc.

So as torque goes higher in the rpm (power strokes per minute) the % multiplying is also higher. If you look at torque at peak Hp it's generally around 90% of peak torque and is about 1000-2000 rpms higher than peak torque. Every 1000 rpms you go up is about 19% more hp per torque.

So even thought the torque per power stroke goes down after peak torque the hp % per torque keeps rising so and so does hp until the torque starts dropping faster than the hp % per torque goes up, which seems to be on average around 1500 rpms higher.

 

[273]

1 hp Briggs and Straton will move plenty with gears, even a lawn tractor, mini bike, and such. With enough gearing, it will also move a car, like a clock but it will move it. Or on a hoist lift the car off the ground.

I'm not saying gearing isn't needed, the HP is the potential the gearing is generally there to put that potential to good use.

800 hp/880 ft trq won't move a lawn mower without a gear. It's why they roar on engine stands and nothing happens.

A car won't move without tires either, not the point, a car needs a lot of things to function, doesn't make it relative to Illahe question.

 

[Illahe]

The higher rpm you turn your engine the higher the percentage of torque, hp is.
Everyone knows hp is a 100% of torque at 5252 rpm. But at every other rpm hp % of torque is also fixed. eg. 1313 rpm hp is 25% of torque which is also 25% of the rpm of 5252 rpm.
So multiples of 1313 rpm like 2626 rpm hp is 50% of torque and 6565 rpm is 125% etc.

So as torque goes higher in the rpm (power strokes per minute) the % multiplying is also higher. If you look at torque at peak Hp it's generally around 90% of peak torque and is about 1000-2000 rpms higher than peak torque. Every 1000 rpms you go up is about 19% more hp per torque.

So even thought the torque per power stroke goes down after peak torque the hp % per torque keeps rising so and so does hp until the torque starts dropping faster than the hp % per torque goes up, which seems to be on average around 1500 rpms higher.

Thank you for explaining the theory. I often wondered how a flat torque band compared to an abrupt torque band relative to ET.

I notice the consistent 10 second RB cars that race at 6000+ density altitude run power glides. They don't sound like they are turning over 6k and when they leave the tree there is no big wellie, yet they are getting it done with two speeds.

You explanations are appreciated!

 

[318willrun]

I'm not saying gearing isn't needed, the HP is the potential the gearing is generally there to put that potential to good use.

A car won't move without tires either, not the point, a car needs a lot of things to function, doesn't make it relative to Illahe question.

I answered Illahe's question post 120. And my answer was on point. I didn't address anyone else or looked to argue LOL.

 

[273]

Thank you for explaining the theory. I often wondered how a flat torque band compared to an abrupt torque band relative to ET.

Basically the longer and flatter the torque curve the better the HP under the curve, if like electric motor and torque was flat in it's useful range HP would go up in a 45 degree angle.

I notice the consistent 10 second RB cars that race at 6000+ density altitude run power glides. They don't sound like they are turning over 6k and when they leave the tree there is no big wellie, yet they are getting it done with two speeds.

You explanations are appreciated!

Maybe someone else has that answer, not to sure.

 

[273]

I answered Illahe's question post 120. And my answer was on point. I didn't address anyone else or looked to argue LOL.

Didn't look like an answer to me, but if you say so

 

[fishmens67]

4.10 gear and 3500+ convertor.

trick flow cylinder heads would really wake the OP's combo up with above gear and convertor.
Shouldn't need to get back in the short block.

 

[318willrun]

Didn't look like an answer to me, but if you say so

I'll stay right out of your way then - you carry the gavel !!!

 

[fishmens67]

I'll stay right out of your way then - you carry the gavel !!!

I think you answered it well.
Do you remember me telling you about my 64 D100 flatbed with the stock poly 318 with 4 spd and 4.88 rear gear.
Pop the clutch in granny gear the damn truck wants to pull the front wheels. lol

 

[273]

I'll stay right out of your way then - you carry the gavel !!!

I didn't mean it that way, say whatever you want to say, if you don't want to discuss it (argue) I won't. The guy asked torque vs hp and you say gears sounds good

 

[318willrun]

I didn't mean it that way, say whatever you want to say, if you don't want to discuss it (argue) I won't. The guy asked torque vs hp and you say gears sounds good

nahhh... he asked what moved the car from a dead stop is what he really asked. It's like saying what starts your car, the flywheel or starter? and I say battery....

 

[318willrun]

I think you answered it well.
Do you remember me telling you about my 64 D100 flatbed with the stock poly 318 with 4 spd and 4.88 rear gear.
Pop the clutch in granny gear the damn truck wants to pull the front wheels. lol

people that know, know

 

[Rmoore]

Is a 2500 stall correct for your cam, gearing, tire size, and weight?
Also, you may want to calculate the exhaust diameter needed for what you have. I calculated out 2.5" is best for scavenging for my 360 with my promaxx cnc 185 heads, Doug's headers and h pipe.
What do your heads flow? I did not see you mention heads. That's kinda critical.

It’s says post #1 he has the 452 heads stock

 

[Rmoore]

Read the list twice and didn't see what heads. I'd run a double pumper. Is this "feeling" off the seat of your pants test drive? No way for us to know if it's in the ballpark or not without knowing something about how you determine slow.

He said in post #1 452 stock heads unported !

 

[318willrun]

He said in post #1 452 stock heads unported !

He edited post # 1.. AFTER I posted "i didn't read what heads"

 

[Illahe]

gears. gears move the car

It's clear that gear ratio plays an important part in harvesting the torque/HP available, yet there is an overlooked aspect to the OP's dilemma and that's air density. Surely the gear can crutch the limited power of the combination, yet it seems that the solution lies in getting the most out of the combination in a high altitude, hence low oxygen environment.
For instance, we who are dealing with the inefficient aspect of low air density are constantly seeking an understanding of making power as the density drops. You may have experienced the same aspects at lower levels as the oxygen content changes on a humid summer day where your located.
Overall, thank you for your input!

 

[318willrun]

It's clear that gear ratio plays an important part in harvesting the torque/HP available, yet there is an overlooked aspect to the OP's dilemma and that's air density. Surely the gear can crutch the limited power of the combination, yet it seems that the solution lies in getting the most out of the combination in a high altitude, hence low oxygen environment.
For instance, we who are dealing with the inefficient aspect of low air density are constantly seeking an understanding of making power as the density drops. You may have experienced the same aspects at lower levels as the oxygen content changes on a humid summer day where your located.
Overall, thank you for your input!

I lived in Colo, driven many classics in Colo, and street raced in Colo. From Colo Springs to Wellington Colo, all along I-25. In no wise am I saying what's between the fenders doesn't matter.

 

[273]

I'm not getting the high altitude angle, your just gonna make less power for a given combo compared to lower altitudes. But it's all still relative to each other, it is what it is.

 

[Illahe]

I'm not getting the high altitude angle, your just gonna make less power for a given combo compared to lower altitudes. But it's all still relative to each other, it is what it is.

I agree with you about making less power due to altitude, yet the objective is to make power at altitude. Therefore, those of us hampered by air density are looking for ways to "squeeze" as much out of a given combination because we often experience a 2000' drop in air density within several hours at the drag strip. say from 9am to 1pm the Et and tune goes to hell...
Due to dial in there is a lot of thrashing on NA cars along with some head scratching. I'm only several years into high altitude racing and miss street racing in coastal air at 200' after midnight...
In no way am I discounting all the options that have been discussed, yet there is some power available when lash can be altered to compensate the tune.

 

[standup303]

Called Dynamic and talked to them for a good 15 minutes. Ended up recommending a 9.5” 3800-4000 stall. Placed the order! Hoping the 3.73 and converter help wake her up.

 

[318willrun]

Called Dynamic and talked to them for a good 15 minutes. Ended up recommending a 9.5” 3800-4000 stall. Placed the order! Hoping the 3.73 and converter help wake her up.

You will feel that on launch!

 

[Illahe]

Called Dynamic and talked to them for a good 15 minutes. Ended up recommending a 9.5” 3800-4000 stall. Placed the order! Hoping the 3.73 and converter help wake her up.

I have a dynamic 4700 in my car at this time. It’s an excellent Converter. I was amazed at the low speed, drivability loading the car into the trailer, as well as the foot brake launch.

 

[abodyjoe]

Called Dynamic and talked to them for a good 15 minutes. Ended up recommending a 9.5” 3800-4000 stall. Placed the order! Hoping the 3.73 and converter help wake her up.

talk to shawn? he has done a few converters for me and friends.. everyone has been happy with them..

those 9.5" converters are awesome. will drive around like a stock converter and feel like y you are shot out of a cannon at the trac if you hook it.

 

[TT5.9mag]

You ordered a converter without knowing compression ratio or cranking compression at your altitude?

 

[standup303]

talk to shawn? he has done a few converters for me and friends.. everyone has been happy with them..

those 9.5" converters are awesome. will drive around like a stock converter and feel like y you are shot out of a cannon at the trac if you hook it.

Yup Shawn! Awesome glad to hear.