Finally, my first 360 and goals for it! I'll be asking a lot of questions.
- Thread starter trebor75
- Start date
-
I had some time to work and do some further inspection today. The 360 has the stock 4.000 bore.
1. Cam bearings will have to be replaced. (I did not take a photo, must have forgot)
2. Crankshaft endplay within specs
3. Connecting rod side clearance within specs
4. Measuring for cylinder wear and taper. I have to get a hang of this, I tried to do it today with this nice tool:
I have never used it before and the dial was all over the place. How do you guys do this? The tool has to be totally horizontal in the cylinder to get a true reading?
Until I get the hang of it I did this:
I pushed the ring down with a piston. I measured the ring gap with a feeler gauge. Top, middle and bottom. Bottom and middle took a 0.045 and the top took a 0.050 (but it was tight). If I'm right that tells me that the taper is 0.005 from top to bottom. At least using this method for measurement. Please chime in on this, doing this for the very first time here.
5. I only had time to remove on piston today. Picture of the rod bearing below. What say you? Not good looking at all right?
6. Pictures of cylinder 1 and crank journal
7. Pictures of piston 1
I would really like to hear you guys input on these things so far. Please chime in!
1. Cam bearings will have to be replaced. (I did not take a photo, must have forgot)
2. Crankshaft endplay within specs
3. Connecting rod side clearance within specs
4. Measuring for cylinder wear and taper. I have to get a hang of this, I tried to do it today with this nice tool:
I have never used it before and the dial was all over the place. How do you guys do this? The tool has to be totally horizontal in the cylinder to get a true reading?
Until I get the hang of it I did this:
I pushed the ring down with a piston. I measured the ring gap with a feeler gauge. Top, middle and bottom. Bottom and middle took a 0.045 and the top took a 0.050 (but it was tight). If I'm right that tells me that the taper is 0.005 from top to bottom. At least using this method for measurement. Please chime in on this, doing this for the very first time here.
5. I only had time to remove on piston today. Picture of the rod bearing below. What say you? Not good looking at all right?
6. Pictures of cylinder 1 and crank journal
7. Pictures of piston 1
I would really like to hear you guys input on these things so far. Please chime in!
Pictures tell a lot, but not all....
One picture is really clear of the cylinder wall, and I can still see the cross-hatch marks from what it probably the factory hone. That's good and typical of the mopar small blocks.
There is obviously some wear on the bearings, but seems to be a good core to throw some rings, bearings, and might even get by with a ball hone.
One picture is really clear of the cylinder wall, and I can still see the cross-hatch marks from what it probably the factory hone. That's good and typical of the mopar small blocks.
There is obviously some wear on the bearings, but seems to be a good core to throw some rings, bearings, and might even get by with a ball hone.
Thanks for the reply. I'm getting new bearings for the crank, connecting rods and the cam. What I need to decide upon further inspection is if I need to get it bored or if I can get by with a hone. I need to learn how to use that tool correctly. My goal is still as I said, a reliable, fun street car. It won't get that many miles a year considering how short the summer is over here.
I have them
In the wife's .030-360. Only about 200 miles on them so far. I zero decked the block to the pistons.
Edelbrock heads up top.
In the wife's .030-360. Only about 200 miles on them so far. I zero decked the block to the pistons.
Edelbrock heads up top.
No Mallory to balance the external balance assembly.
Sorry, I do not know any specs to the slug.
Sorry, I do not know any specs to the slug.
Thanks Rumblefish. They look really nice. What do you mean by "No Mallory to balance the external balance assembly. "?
stixx
Well-Known Member
= No heavy metal required in the crankshaft counterweights to balance the assembly.
Saves you a good deal of money.
Saves you a good deal of money.
Yup! What Stixx said..
My street, (275hp - 430hp) street strip (450+hp) 360's are done this way. It is a lot cheaper and the assembly is still reasonable enough for decent power.
They generally don't get hammered on a lot.
The more serious applications are internally balanced (which is better but not madatory) and may or may not include forged pistons.
My street, (275hp - 430hp) street strip (450+hp) 360's are done this way. It is a lot cheaper and the assembly is still reasonable enough for decent power.
They generally don't get hammered on a lot.
The more serious applications are internally balanced (which is better but not madatory) and may or may not include forged pistons.
Thanks for the input guys! I will continue to dissemble the engine next week and inspect. I watched some YouTube videos on how to use that cylinder measure tool and I think I can come up with some true number now on the taper and out of round. I am tempted to go with these speed pro pistons!
So today I had the time to learn how to use this tool and get measurements of cylinder 1. Will do the rest asap.
These two positions
Using these tools
These are the numbers I came up with on cylinder 1
Position 1 (top-bottom) .0023 - .0017
Position 2 (top-bottom) .0027 - .0013
This is not too bad if I understand correctly right?
These two positions
Using these tools
These are the numbers I came up with on cylinder 1
Position 1 (top-bottom) .0023 - .0017
Position 2 (top-bottom) .0027 - .0013
This is not too bad if I understand correctly right?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Personally, I'd rather see the actual bore sizes than what you posted.
And if that is your actual numbers I'd never run that. Regardless of what the book says that's too loose at the top.
Also, measure down the bore in 3-4 spots instead of just two. Also measure front to rear on the bores as well. They can be 3rd and 4th order out of round and you may not catch it if you measure in two planes.
Also, unless you have a torque plate on, or a cylinder head on and you are checking from the bottom, that's not exactly what you have for taper.
Thanks. I forgot to mention, the bore is stock 4".
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yes.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
What's it like at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 of the way down the bore and the measurements 90* to what you are measuring?
Also, can you post the diameter of the piston?
If you put a torque plate on and try to straighten the bore I'd bet it will take .004-.006 to get it straight. That's a lot. That would put you .007-.008 over nominal.
I don't know yet. I have never done this before and followed a Haynes manual who suggested top, bottom and the two positions I posted. Specs said: Max cyl bore out of round .005, max taper .010. I will get more measurements and post them up. I don't have a torque plate unfortunately. I am on a budget on this build. I want a fun weekend street car. It will not see the strip. I would like to do as much as I can myself, because that is the only way of learning.
Honestly, if I read the numbers correctly, your not even a half thousands off on the bore for taper? In my opinion, that would be "factory perfect", which we know mass production is never perfect. But I honestly think that your ok for what you are trying to do. Just my opinion.
Yellowrose is a machinist, and he'd strike for perfection, which is best. But I don't think you'd have an issue at all for what your trying to do.
Yellowrose is a machinist, and he'd strike for perfection, which is best. But I don't think you'd have an issue at all for what your trying to do.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I get what your saying. You have most of the stuff, so learn as much as you can. I appreciate the manual, but it's to just get you by.
Post up the actual size of the piston you are going to use. At this point, if you are going to run it, I would dingle berry hone it and let it go. If it was in my shop, I'd try and get it straighter. Then, I'd be wetting my pants because you're getting very close to too much clearance. It's a give and take thing if you can bore it.
Just for fun, and for learning, why not torque the head on, and torque the main caps and check your bores from the underside? You may not be able to get every measurement but you should get three or four good readings.
It will help you see how far cast iron moves when it is loaded. We won't even add in temperature gradients, casting thickness variations, gasket distortion and load!! It can boggle your mind how much this stuff moves around in dynamic conditions.
Should be fun learning if you have the time. Why not give it a go?
And if you don't mind, post up your numbers. Real world stuff is educational.
you don't mean to, but your sounding scarrrry...... LOL.... "here, you find out yourself how shifty your engine is, and you'll be surprised it stays together"... LOL
I agree, I'd ball hone it and call it good ....
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
you don't mean to, but your sounding scarrrry...... LOL.... "here, you find out yourself how shifty your engine is, and you'll be surprised it stays together"... LOL
I agree, I'd ball hone it and call it good ....
First time I had an engine on the dyno under load I ran like a girl because it sounded like a thrashing machine ready to explode.
It's crazy what they sound like in a dyno room. You'd think they are a nano second from absolute destruction.
Thanks for the input guys. Always appreciated. Now I have some more measuring to do. I will bolt a head on there If I can get the bore dial gauge in from the underside.
Yellow Rose, you asked "Post up the actual size of the piston you are going to use". Are you saying I could get slightly oversized piston for a stock bore that is worn!? Forgive my ignorance.
Yellow Rose, you asked "Post up the actual size of the piston you are going to use". Are you saying I could get slightly oversized piston for a stock bore that is worn!? Forgive my ignorance.
stixx
Well-Known Member
No, a standard piston for a 4" bore should be good. The piston will actually be a bit smaller of course than your bore (which is what YR is asking for), that is what determines your clearance. Mostly when buying pistons only the bore diameter is given, but the piston usually is bore minus clearance.
With your little wear even a slightly oversized piston would be too big and require boring or honing on cnc equipment. That is why YR states to just dingle berry hone it (which is honing with an electric drill and, err, the dingle berry hone).
Anybody feel free to correct me.
-
