Front end rebuild - what's it worth?

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grimreaper

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A friend of mine has a small vehicle repair shop. A customer who regularly has him work on his modern vehicles from out of town bought a 66 Dart and has been bugging my friend to do some work on it. My friend told him he doesn't usually work on classics as thy are usually not financially feasible and asked him if he could find anyone else to do the work. The guy has not been able to find anyone within a reasonable distance that will work on his car so my friend agreed to do some minor engine work for him. The guy also needs the front end rebuilt and my friend really doesn't want to tackle that. He asked me if I could help both of them out and rebuild it for them. It needs upper control arm bushings, lower control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, upper and lower ball joints and tie rod ends. The pitman arm and idler arm were supposedly replaced a couple of years ago so it doesn't need those. I've got plenty of work to do on my own stuff and my local friends utilize my free services whenever I have time. So, my question is, what would be a fair price for a front end rebuild on an early A? Looking for a rough idea that would be fair for me and the car owner. I'd like to do it for him for free (just because he's an early A guy) but he needs it squeezed into a certain timeframe so I figure it would be fair to get compensated for my time, and my buddy would like to give him an estimated price. If I charge actual cost of parts what would the labor part of a job like that be worth?
 
Well, you should Never put a price on another person's labor. But, do YOU Have a big ticket Mopar part YOU NEED? LOL what I do in the construction world is if it's something I don't know the going rate on I just figure out how long it's going to take me....
If you've got all the right tools and you can break them things down and put them back together in no time, maybe 500 bucks. But it seems like there's always some kind of little issue on them things. So 1,000 to 1,500? Or you could go to an old Chrysler Master Tech Manual see how many Shop hours it takes to do one and then charge today's labor rates by those hours.... I mean you got to get something man...another thing is he wants it done
in a time frame
And it is a job nobody wants. How ar
e his finances? Is he set ? Or another mostly broke good ol boy? You have to make that call
We love workin on these things and love to help others, but that's a Lotta work.
 
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Shops around me range from $120 - $165 an hour for labor. So parts plus whatever you feel your labor is worth, if everything is rusty and crusty that $165 an hour is probably gonna add up fast, but depending on the effort needed to replace the parts it might be justifiable. Plus factor in a front end alignment, which are about $100 around here.
 
I've made arrangements to have my front end rebuilt. Which includes some header dinging so the 1.03 torsion bar
Will clear. $600, (labor only ) which I find fair
 
I'd charge $100 an hour. Get the tool set to replace the upper and lower bushings, if you don't have them. Upper ball joints seldom need replacing. Usually only the outer tie rod ends need replacement. In todays world I'd check the lower ball joints, if they have been replaced they may be better than what you can get new. Get the heavy duty strut rod bushings.
 
I was gonna say either-

About $600, or

Price the parts, then double that for labor.

How about the alignment?

Note that not many of us can get that done in "book time", so charging by the hour for 15 hours to do a 4 hour "book time" job ain't real nice.
...but charging for 4 hours if it takes 20, ain't real nice for you, either.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I haven't charged anyone for car labor since the 70s, when I had my body shop, or paid anybody for car labor either so I'm really out of touch with that. I'm not going to be doing it to make money but I'm not doing it because I want to do it either. so I want us to both get a fair deal. I do have all of the tools necessary but I'm sure I'll work at a slower pace than someone trying to make a living at it. I would really prefer that he have me do the alignment so we can get as much caster as possible and have his car drive nice when it's done but he may be one who thinks the computers have to be better.
 
.....and remember a "tight window" tends to invoke the Murphy's law clause where if you think it will take 8 hours, it will actually take 36.
 
Ya, Murphy definitly hangs out right next to me! Espceially if I tell my wife how long something will take.
 
I just had my 74 dart sport frontend done at a local shop everything was taken off and all new put back on the shop rate is 80.00 total labor because of crusty parts to get off was 1265.00
 
.....and remember a "tight window" tends to invoke the Murphy's law clause where if you think it will take 8 hours, it will actually take 36.

Ya, Murphy definitly hangs out right next to me! Espceially if I tell my wife how long something will take.

Absolutely

I did my own on my 64 and the huge time consumer was removing the torsion bars and the LCA bushing sleeves. Having the right tools and a technique down (second one was way way faster than the first). I also initially screwed up the install the first time having the center link flipped the wrong way (Rookie mistake) but got that sorted out. Very pleased with the result and did my own alignment using a vintage alignment system I picked up for $100 bucks.

As previous members have stated, the starting condition would matter very much. If the suspension is totally roached-out it'll be a PITA for sure.
 
20 years a friend of mine paid $1,800 for the labor (1971 Barracuda) which I thought was WAY out of line. I start at $750, which is too low for most of these crusty cars out there. There's always something that eats up time. On the 1957 Dodge I did it was a torsion bar that was rusted to the rear socket. Fortunately those can be removed from the frame, but I spent fruitless hours trying to get it apart. Finally took to somebody with a torch to heat it up. Then again, I'm done working on other people's cars for this very reason.
 
.....and remember a "tight window" tends to invoke the Murphy's law clause where if you think it will take 8 hours, it will actually take 36.
Everytime! And the stress and skint knuckles to boot! Plus, some people wanna do something by a certain date. But neglect to tell Ya. So there is a possibility of a bitter taste if time frame is not dead on
 
Yup, $750 is cheap... It's allot of hard dirty work... Doing stuff most guys turning wrenches today either don't want to do or don't know how to do...

And the next question, are you just blowing it apart & reassembling it?
Or would he want to pay more & have parts cleaning/blasted/painted/powder coated?

And do you have an alignment shop that knows these old cars?

Are you doing straight rebuild or adding a few tweaks to improve the car? Adding front discs? This would be the time to do that..

All upgrades should add to the cost, but not as much as going back & adding them later...
 
An early A is about the simplest and most brilliant front suspension ever engineered.


I replaced the LCA and lower ball joints in my valiant in 2 hours flat. Another hour for the upper control arm bushings.

I'd charge 300. For the the LCA bushings and lower ball joints. Parts included. 375. For all that plus upper control arm bushings. And add 200. For upper ball joints.

Upper ball joints take the most time and most labor intense because they require a special socket and MEGA torque to break them. If they were replaced in the past someone might have tack welded them in place. Plus you have to be careful you don't bend the upper control arm when you apply a big *** cheater bar (piece of fence pipe) it can get tricky.
 
Will you be doing at the guys shop and having them invoice for labor and parts. All work billed from.his shop and a percentage added for the shop. Like his other work they do. Or on your own and you bill the customer? In this day and age
If it is the ladder you wil be on the hook and possibly on Judge if a,cheapo ball joint, tie rod end snaps down.the road.
Not tring to be a Debbie Downer but. Keep in mind I have friends with real shops and thet have been down this road when later a part has failed.
I will help a friend do his own work but not do work, not worth the risk.
 
I have all of the tools and have done several front end rebuilds so I'm aware of what I'm up against. Just didn't have any idea what to charge for the job. I'll also try to get him to powder coat the components which I do know what to charge to come out on on those. I'll also try to get him to have me do the alignment so it drives nice when the work is done. I know the additional price I'll ask for an alignment as there are alignment shops around here that advertise. ( but they probably can't even do an old school car correctly) I appreciate all of your input.
 
It hasn't been finalized but I'm asking the shop to pay me. I'm pretty sure my friend will try to keep my price fair for both me and the customer too, but thought I'd get some idea where to begin from you guys.
 
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If you're gonna get 1099'd you might want to factor that in.
 
It's a 56 year old car. Depending on when it was last rebuilt and if anybody used any Never Seize when they did it, you have no idea how much time it will take to get it apart, or what you will find in terms of damaged hard parts (LCAs, UCAs, special bolts, etc.). Certainly insist that you use all new parts that are readily available and don't reuse what you can buy. Agree on a price per hour and keep track. regarding the last post, I'd ask your buddy with the shop to add his percentage and get paid for the work through him.
 
I did mine, $1200 labor, I provided the parts. All hard parts cleaned and powder coated.
 
I would say the owner does it his self, or be prepared to pay. few people are knowledgable enough to make short work of it.
There are so many variables to consider, Including the possibility of worn out A frames, upper or lower, tired torsion bars, tie rod ends, Idler arms, pitman arms, labor charges to replace all the bushings, and if there are any needs to sandblast worn parts. Then there is the alignment cost.
I say do it right, or don't do it. it takes time, which is why most shops won't tackle old mopar suspensions.
I have been doing them since the 70's, and 10 year ago I charged 1,000 labor not including any other machine shop labor, or parts. The owner was happy to pay it,,,, today I would charge $2,000 labor to totally restore the whole assembly properly. at a full shop today that would be about 12 hours shop labor, plus everything else. Back then When I was $50 per hour, the shops were 90.00 an hour.
But today, I would still decline to do the job, I have way too many projects already! Lol
 
I would "guess" book time would be in the 10 hour range. So what I want to know is, why wouldn't you charge book time? If it takes you less, that's the benefit of being an experienced mechanic. That's what people are paying you for, right? Why is it everyone and their brother expects the mechanic to bend over to give everybody a good deal? It's a big job, it should be a big price.
 
some points brought up earlier in the thread deserve to be galvanized: by taking on this job you are opening yourself and by association your friend's shop to the risk of litigation-- something goes wrong with the job and a wheel comes off and hurts somebody or they get in a crash and crack up another car, you're working there and you get hurt while working or something goes wrong and the car gets damaged or causes damage to the shop or another car there in some way. because it's run through his shop, he's on the hook. even if it's an after hours job and you're helping somebody out.

this person wants this on a short timeline. how short? are we talking a weekend? two weeks? a month? you get the picture. one consideration is that by determining the timeline, they may think that they can dictate other aspects of the job-- making calls on questionable parts or components, which, again, could put you at risk.

now for the nuts and bolts of it: I'd price out all the parts, and I mean ALL the parts even the ones supposedly replaced and that are in good condition and tack on 15% for the time and effort of tracking down and ordering what YOU know to be good quality components.

labor wise, I'd clock that at 10hr easy. figure $100/hr (plus a fee for broken/stripped and stuck fasteners per each instance)

so a smooth 1K, bump it to 1250 and kick 250 back to the shop for utility of using their space and lift. if you want to slide a bro deal then make it 750 and kick 250 back to the shop.

anyway, if I were in your situation, I'd want to see the car first so I could assess the job and evaluate what the situation is condition/rust wise before determining if my initial estimate is correct and if I wanted to undertake the work.
 
Ive been down this road before
I wouldn't get involved, ive see these types of "deals" go sideways more than once
I stoped doing estimates when I was doing business a very long time ago
They paid me my hourly rate, I use to work like a dog non stop.
Done right, no cutting conners.....Everybody went home happy
 
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