My son has a 67 Dart. It was a slant 6 drum brake car and we are in the middle of a magnum swap with front discs and an 8.8 disc brake rearend. The K frame is a 67-72. The upper and lower control arms, spindles, tie rods and center link are out of a 76. Steering gear box and arm are from the 67. Only thing I don’t have is the idler arm. Do I get one for 68-72 to match the k frame of 73-76 to match the rest?
Front suspension swap help needed
- Thread starter Truckie
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72Dart6pack
Harder Better Faster Stronger.
You will need the Idler for a 68 to 72. I did my rebuild off the car.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No, not according to what he posted. The pieces that must go together (except a 67 only K member) are the center link, idler and pitman arm, and the steering box. The studs on the idler and pitman arm point upwards vs downwards in the 72/ earlier vs 73/ later, and of course the splines on the steering box must fit the pitman arm.
Key words here is "center link." If you can not change that, then the box/ idler/ pitman must fit the center link
Key words here is "center link." If you can not change that, then the box/ idler/ pitman must fit the center link
72Dart6pack
Harder Better Faster Stronger.
I correct myself. Yes a 67 Idler arm.
Mine is rebuilt outside car too. What are your parts from? My calipers are on the front side of the rotors instead of back side like yours.
72Dart6pack
Harder Better Faster Stronger.
Calipers need to go to the rear when you have a sway bar. But are using the 73 to 76 rotors on a 72 K frame
Ok so I need 67 idler, pitman arm, and center link. I’m assuming I can use the 67 center link I took off the car? Is the slant 6 idler arm different than the V8 idler?
Yes, is that a problem?
Dragonsteel
Well-Known Member
I am curious about this too. I have a front sway bar with the calipers mounted on the front and do not have any issues.
This is the k frame I have. Here’s the part I don’t get. If it is a 67-72 k frame, is there a different 67 idler arm for the small block k frame? I ask because the mounting point for the 67 slant 6 k frame I took out of the car is different than the 67-72 k frame.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No Try again. ONLY the 67 K frame uses a 67 idler. That is because the K frame mount is different.
68-72 or 73-later K frames "can" use any year idler EXCEPT 67, BUT ONLY depending ON THE CENTER LINK
There are three items of interest:
1...Only a 67 K member can use and requires a 67 idler, and a 67 K therefore MUST use a 67--72 center link and 67-72 pitman all because of the 67 ONLY K member mounting for the idler
2...ANY LATER YEAR depends on the center link and steering box
2A.........A 67-72 center link must use compatible idler and pitman, and the pitman must fit the box splines
2B.........A 73--later center link must use compatible idler arm and pitman, and pitman must fit the box splines
3...There are two steering box spline sizes, and the pitman "studs" (along with idler "studs") changed direction between 72/ earlier and 73/ later
Those pieces must be all compatible
Standby for diagram..........
Read post 2 of this thread, note diagrams
confused, steering gear compatibility
The pieces mentioned above ^^ are INDEPENDENT of parts below:
For lower arms, you can use any year 67/ later unless you need factory sway bar ears, and if you have an early K, you must have 72/ earlier lower arms with the early anti-roll bar tabs
73/ later K members used a different anti-roll bar with the bar snaked inside the hollow K, and the lower arm tabs are different
If you are going with aftermarket sway bar, that is different, and "depends"
=========================================
Upper arms----------depends---if you have drum brakes or will use the 73/ later disk brake spindles, you need 73/ later disc brake A arms
Spindles--------------as above, different between drum or disc, and you might want to reverse them side for side to put the calipers at the rear rather than front, for anti-roll bar clearance. This will require different hoses, no big deal
68-72 or 73-later K frames "can" use any year idler EXCEPT 67, BUT ONLY depending ON THE CENTER LINK
There are three items of interest:
1...Only a 67 K member can use and requires a 67 idler, and a 67 K therefore MUST use a 67--72 center link and 67-72 pitman all because of the 67 ONLY K member mounting for the idler
2...ANY LATER YEAR depends on the center link and steering box
2A.........A 67-72 center link must use compatible idler and pitman, and the pitman must fit the box splines
2B.........A 73--later center link must use compatible idler arm and pitman, and pitman must fit the box splines
3...There are two steering box spline sizes, and the pitman "studs" (along with idler "studs") changed direction between 72/ earlier and 73/ later
Those pieces must be all compatible
Standby for diagram..........
Read post 2 of this thread, note diagrams
confused, steering gear compatibility
The pieces mentioned above ^^ are INDEPENDENT of parts below:
For lower arms, you can use any year 67/ later unless you need factory sway bar ears, and if you have an early K, you must have 72/ earlier lower arms with the early anti-roll bar tabs
73/ later K members used a different anti-roll bar with the bar snaked inside the hollow K, and the lower arm tabs are different
If you are going with aftermarket sway bar, that is different, and "depends"
=========================================
Upper arms----------depends---if you have drum brakes or will use the 73/ later disk brake spindles, you need 73/ later disc brake A arms
Spindles--------------as above, different between drum or disc, and you might want to reverse them side for side to put the calipers at the rear rather than front, for anti-roll bar clearance. This will require different hoses, no big deal
Last edited:
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
If you have a 67 K frame, you have these choices:
1.....Use the 67, K, find a rare 67 idler, and then find compatible pieces, the pitman, box, and center link
2......Use the 67 K modify the K to accept the better/ more common idler arm and your choices just got better
(There was a recent thread re: a jig to mod 67 K frame idler mount)
3......Find a 68--72 or 73/ later K and go from there. 73/ later uses the spool motor mounts
1.....Use the 67, K, find a rare 67 idler, and then find compatible pieces, the pitman, box, and center link
2......Use the 67 K modify the K to accept the better/ more common idler arm and your choices just got better
(There was a recent thread re: a jig to mod 67 K frame idler mount)
3......Find a 68--72 or 73/ later K and go from there. 73/ later uses the spool motor mounts
That was a lot of great information. Based on the info, does this set up sound like it will work?
68-72 k frame
67 gear box, pitman arm, centerlink
68-72 idler arm
76 A arms and spindles
67 lower control arms. (Planned to use 76 lowers, but sound like that won’t work based on your info
So since I don’t have any anti roll bars, I can use the 67 or 76 lower control arms?
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
Yes, but I wouldn't drive one of these cars without the bar and upgraded torsion bars (at least the factory handling package bars).
Do the 67 and 76 lower control arms use the same size ball joint?
Its possible/doable. Some aftermarket front bars attach at lower shock bolt and/or have different bends and may not conflict with forward mounted late model calipers.
The OEM front bar has very long end links that loaded above a tang this is very near the lower ball joint. Late model calipers will hit that set up if the calipers are mounted to front. Convention solution was to switch spindles left and right so the caliper mounts to the rear, away from the sway bar. Longer fluid hoses are required.
In recent years people have figured out to use the shorter late model end links loaded beneath the attach tangs. Moves end links and bar below the front mounted caliper. No conflict.
Yes. You must use the correct lower ball joints for their shape, bolt to spindle configuration, but the ball studs to lower arm are the same size.
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
We still mounted the bar ends above the tab, but used extremely short links before I knew that the spindles could be swapped. These clear the caliper, BUT the forward lower ball joint bolt will still hit the tab so some grinding of the tab helps.
Wow! Did this thread get out of control!
The K you show in post #10 is 68-72. That's good as it gets rid of the one year only (expensive) idler. You can use the existing 67 center link and tie rods with that BUT... You need a 68-72 idler. Period.
You didn't say what brakes you are going with, only discs. You can make it easy on yourself and tell us exactly what brakes you are using. Do you want to keep the Small Bolt Pattern or go to the more common 4.5 Large Bolt Pattern? The 67-72 stuff is conducive to using factory SBP.
Personally, if it was me, and you have access to the 76 K frame, (assuming it's a V-8 K) I'd use all that stuff. This gives you the fail-safe spool mounts, tucked-in sway bar and LBP. A 76 a-body for sure came with disc brakes that use easy to get parts. You can use your 67 steering box with a 73-76 pitman.
The K you show in post #10 is 68-72. That's good as it gets rid of the one year only (expensive) idler. You can use the existing 67 center link and tie rods with that BUT... You need a 68-72 idler. Period.
You didn't say what brakes you are going with, only discs. You can make it easy on yourself and tell us exactly what brakes you are using. Do you want to keep the Small Bolt Pattern or go to the more common 4.5 Large Bolt Pattern? The 67-72 stuff is conducive to using factory SBP.
Personally, if it was me, and you have access to the 76 K frame, (assuming it's a V-8 K) I'd use all that stuff. This gives you the fail-safe spool mounts, tucked-in sway bar and LBP. A 76 a-body for sure came with disc brakes that use easy to get parts. You can use your 67 steering box with a 73-76 pitman.
I haven’t measured white size the rotors are, but the discs came off a 76 5 door slant 6 valiant. So I didn’t get the k frame, but I got most everything else. They are large bolt pattern.
I’ve got the front end mostly back together. This is what I’ve done so far.
-68-72 V8 k frame
-67 manual steering box, pitman arm and center lin-68-72 idler arm
-76 upper and lower control arms, spindles, and rotors
-new upper and lower 76 ball joints
the question I have now is, is there any difference between 67 tire rods and 76 tie rods? I’m looking at buying new tie rod ends and 76 are a whole lot cheaper than the 67 ones. Obviyi want to use the 76 ones if they will work with my set up. Thoughts?
Jim Lusk
Well-Known Member
The difference in the tie rods ends, as I understand it, is that the threaded part is longer on one than the other. Go with the cheaper ones.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. It depends on the spline size
I had not noticed the 68 idler arm mount posted in post 10
I'm pretty sure you can use either year range of tie rod ends as long as they are paired same "age" group
Dragonsteel
Well-Known Member
So I guess have been doing wrong for the last 3 years? I did notice some marks on the calipers, but figured it only happened at full lock.
Does look like your calipers hit the stabilizer bar. At minimum, your "full lock" is not the turning radius you should have if its limited by parts conflict. That is a floating caliper. I image the inner pad could be pushed against the rotor. Pushing the piston in? Brake pedal lower next time you hit it? Is the angle of the force trying to defeat the caliper retainers?
In recent years some have used the shorter 73 and up end link kits loaded beneath the clips and say that it works. I had never considered that as a solution. I did it the old school/conventional way, caliper moved to rear and longer fluid hoses. If that was my car i would do something to correct it. Wouldn't want to risk loosing my brakes.
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