Frustrated with inability to do body work!

Mopar Body and Trim

  1. rod7515

    rod7515 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Keith, Im not sure sanding outside is advantage at this time of the year! Especially with running water! lol I plan on being around tomorrow and in the shed some of the day. If your free and heading out swing by. I would call first because its always possible the wife may have different plans for me then I have for me! lol
    Rod
     
  2. zkx14

    zkx14 Duster De-ruster FABO Gold Member

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    Why not outside. Should leave a nice glassy shine :rofl:
    Got someting to do late morning. Maybe stop by on way back. Probably early to mid afternoon.
     
  3. Deleted member 38666

    Deleted member 38666 Guest

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    W&G remover is not a real solvent....so to speak. It will exaporate...just like any other liquid material. Too be honest, I never thought about the elapsed time on the W&G remover on the surface since I just use it for wiping down.....generally. It does not take much water. Try a gallon of distilled water as it should be mineral free and it will go a long way. Softened water will have a certain degree of "hardness" remaining even after going through the softener.....or so I have been told. As well, softened water has an amount of salt content....which you, certainly do not want. Yes, prior to your next coat of surfacer, sealer, BC paint, or clear, you would wipe it down with W&G remover, but you want to NOT introduce any contaminants to you project's surface....if you can help it. Enough can go wrong anyway. Clean, and keep clean before your next coat. BTW Rod, I sent a PM to you regarding some parts. Thanks. Old Dart 66
     
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  4. Tsully

    Tsully Well-Known Member

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    In all my years of bodywork I’ve never had issues with “well water” unless it had a high sulfur content...then it was just dealing with the smell!!

    When using a water hose to wet wet sand take a piece of cheesecloth or pantyhose and wrap the end so it not only filters out the small grit but it also keeps the metal end from scratching the primer or worse...your fresh paint!

    Rusty is right...bodywork is a dying art form...most of these youngsters see these car shows and see how a 15 month build is completed in 45 min show. What they don’t realize is the 100’s of hours spent in the prep work!!

    First rule of prep work...if you can see it in primer you’ll see it in paint!!!

    Contrary to most...the painting is easy...the process leading up to it is not!!!

    You want a straight body...you will have to block it till your arms fall off!! I’ve seen original Mopars and others and the originals were never as straight as show cars.

    Once you think you have it good enough for paint...get a high build primer, spray a guide coat over it and block it all...Again!! Keep you long board or short board...but don’t use use anything under 8” for the final blocking or you’ll create waves.

    Final blocking with 400 will be fine or 600 depending on how close you are to being straight on the final prime.

    Either way you’ll seal it before painting to aid in coverage as sealer can be tinted to match closely to your paint. Depending on the color it could be a single, two or 3 stage paint and I’ve had even single stage be difficult to cover depending on the pigments...but Thais is another topic for another time!

    Just my 5 cents worth of experience!

    Todd
     
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    • 66Dvert

      66Dvert Working on my custom car parts again! FABO Gold Member

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      Nice Job, that front scallop can be a monster to finish. I spent a few hours fine tuning the scallops in mine after removing a dent or 2 down by the bumper area. body lines are usually the hardest to finish the way you would like them but your is pretty good except for those few defects. once those are done you's be ready for even more block sanding..:thumbsup: here is mine of the 3rd block sanding venture. or maybe it was the 4th.. anyway it was a LOT!
      DSCF2838.JPG DSCF2832.JPG
       
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      • rod7515

        rod7515 Well-Known Member

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        I painted the interior sides of the doors and the under the hood area of the front fenders today. Also added in the door hinges and bolts. Then cleaned up an ash tray and glove box door with clearcoat while i was doing it. I didnt want to double up on the post so I posted all the pics in my "1966 Dodge Dart" thread in the members restoration section.
        Tsully, Your comment, "Contrary to most...the painting is easy...the process leading up to it is not!!!" This is so true. And I hate the process leading up to it more then any other work I have ever done on a car! I cant believe how long it takes to tape up and then it doesnt matter how much I clean there is always some dirt that finds its way into the job! Its good we can buff em out!
        Thanks again for everyones help so far. I hope to get the doors and fenders back on the car in the next week or so after I get the car back out to the shed when the snow melts later this week! Once they are on and the real body alignment and body work starts I will have many more questions for you all!
        Thanks Again
        Rod
         
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        • Tsully

          Tsully Well-Known Member

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          I understand the trash issue in the paint! I’ve painted cars in a $100,000.00 booths when I worked at Porsche and Mercedes dealership and I’ve painted in a garage that I could barely see once the fog started rolling. The one thing I learned from both...trash comes from either off of you or your equipment. I’ve used jumper cables to aid in grounding the car to “demagnetize” the car, chains and so forth. The thing is I wasn’t doing...was grounding myself before prepping the car...you know that static you create while taping it, degreasing and then with the tack rag. Alot of times trash comes off the paper while painting especially on base coats, newspaper is great for cleaning windows but not for masking cars. The overspray will build up and fly off on the next coat or worse in the clear. Anyway, just take steps to make sure you, the car and your equipment ( gun, hose, booth) are clean. You’ll still experience some issues but every little bit adds up to a better job.

          Keeps us up to date and the car is looking great!!!
           
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          • barbee6043

            barbee6043 barbee 6043 FABO Gold Member

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            I failed to commend you on a job well done. Looks great.

            I am glad I have owned perfect paint cars in decades prior, some worth more than a few bucks, I learned I tend not to enjoy them as I always live out in the sticks down a gravel or dirt road, so I tend not to drive those kind of cars. I learned to NOT be a perfectionist . I get rid of the rust, get it decently straight, and paint it , dust and dirt fall where it may!!!

            Another pointer. Have really good light when you go to shoot the top coat!!!!

            Good exhaust system too. Be careful, paint is nasty.
             
          • Deleted member 38666

            Deleted member 38666 Guest

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            All great points.....some I never thought of, or learned, but for sure clean tools and self. Wet the floor down too as that helps some. Those little pockets in the chassis can hide some awful debris which is stirred up from the spray as well. Points already mentioned possibly, but worth mentioning. Static....good point....grounding....good....learned something again. JJ
             
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            • zkx14

              zkx14 Duster De-ruster FABO Gold Member

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              Sounds a lot like my conversation with Rodney yesterday. I'm no expert, not even close. I mostly give him advice based on what I could have done better. LOL
              I like the lighting with the LED tubes he put up. (Way better than I had to do mine) A few on the sides down lower and it would be awesome.
              He's said many times that he is not painting a showcar (but he tries to be a perfectionist anyway LOL) He's got the place cleaned up pretty good. Obviously, everytime you sand you need to clean again.:BangHead: If you cant remove EVERYTHING - I think hanging plastic over everything at the sidewalls when I painted my car was a big help. You never get it clean enough, so cover it up and less chance of stirring it up and landing in your paint.
              And then there is not breathing the nasties - a big challenge in a home shop setup. Even worse when you have below freezing outside temps. But, sounded like he had a good plan. Warms it up good before he starts, then kills the heater till he gets the heavy fumes out, so not going to blow himself up either :eek: Hopefully the temps are a lot nicer to paint the whole car. You want good constant air movement. Both for breathing and not dropping dust. And you will be moving...no time to be playing with the heat and ventilation.
              Didn't get to see the latest bodywork, cause it was all covered with masking paper...
               
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              • rod7515

                rod7515 Well-Known Member

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                I hung the passenger door Tuesday night and went out last night to align. Worked and worked chasing my ass around trying to get door and gaps nice. So here's how I attempted to do this. First hung latch for door and jamb. Then with hinges already bolted to doors hung them to body. Swung door into latch to get close. Worked loosening and moving door hinges and nothing seemed to want to move. Tighten then Loosen then tighten over and over. Then I decide to take latch off and try to align that way. I was able to get rear door skin to be all but perfect aligned to rear quarter edge. Problem is I can't get door latch to come out far enough. With latch slid all the way to the body outside skin the door must go past the rear quarter edge and is inside about 3/16". Am I Miss no something on latch adjustment? I can't post pics until tonight but the door lines up great just need to get the final latching not so far in.
                Hope this makes sense!
                Thanks Rod
                 
              • Tsully

                Tsully Well-Known Member

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                If I’m understanding you correctly… You may have to loosen bottom and top hinges and slide the door towards the quarter or in the opposite direction if I’m misunderstanding you. What I’m understanding is the door closes air is aligned but it’s just not latching properly? You may want to take some paint paddles and put in your rocker at the bottom of the door to help keep some sort of an alignment when you slide it backwards or forwards. I’m not sure if they were shimmed or not from the factory but sometimes the striker can’t be taken completely out and add a washer or two but if you’re going for period Correct restoration this may be a no no!
                 
              • rod7515

                rod7515 Well-Known Member

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                Tsully, alignment is really good. The door hinges are as far front as they will go. Rear gap is OK but not perfect. The gap under door looks good and even front to back. The problem I am having is that in order for the door to latch completely the edge goes to far past body line of rear quarter. Hope that explains it better. I will post a pic tonight when I get home.
                Thanks rod
                 
              • Tsully

                Tsully Well-Known Member

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                OK I understand now… You’re gonna have to loosen the top and bottom hinges on the cowl and slide the whole door forward towards the front of the car. If the fender is off it’s an easy process if the fender is not off it’s a little bit more time-consuming!
                 
              • rod7515

                rod7515 Well-Known Member

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                The hinges are as far forward as they can go. The bolts are against the body holes on both top and bottom hinges. But why are you thinking going forward to solve the latching? I understand for the gapping you would move forward.
                Now heres another thing I forgot to say is that the latch has .240 of shim behind it on the body jamb side. But my problem is with going in to far before latch not front to back. Im confused with this alignment!
                Heres some pics,
                You can see that the door fits really well in this pic but it is not latched tight here.
                DSCN0296.JPG

                Heres the pic where the door is latched and you can see how far it is in. My issue is the latch wont come out any farther.
                DSCN0295.JPG
                Again I cant get the door to move any farther forward to make a larger gap. This photo makes the gap look larger at the top then the bottom by a lot but its not as bad as it looks. Thats some of the latch moving the door as its in so far.
                Rod
                 
              • Tsully

                Tsully Well-Known Member

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                Remove the striker completely.
                Slightly losses the top hinge and the bottom and gently open the door and let rear com down about a 1/6 of an inch...it won’t take much because if you multiply 1/6 x the length of the door that’s a lot...then gently shut the door and Check the gap. If it’s good...tape the door closed and go around and tighten at least one bolt behind the dash and kick panel. Then retest by opening and closing gently and adjust the same as you did on the drivers!! Once your happy with all you gaps and fit...put the striker back and keep testing until it opens and closes with very little effort.
                 
              • Tsully

                Tsully Well-Known Member

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                Maybe this will help....

                Pic 1 is what you have now
                Pic 2 is what your after
                Pic 3 is all the ways a door can be moved

                98FD4536-BAC2-4446-BF1D-9E85E8EB11E6.jpeg

                DAB9D901-4656-4C5A-A0E4-5A3B9D265863.jpeg

                F7466007-BE87-46EB-A3C3-C8A260D6E80D.jpeg
                 
              • 1968FormulaS340

                1968FormulaS340 Well-Known Member

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                All you are doing with the wax and grease remover (or water) is giving the surface a temporary gloss so you can see how your body work is coming along. I use a pump up bottle and spray a fine mist to give an even gloss.

                It will just evaluate off if you do nothing, but it's best to wipe off the excess once you are done evaluating the surface.

                I have probably said this before, but use sharp paper. If the paper is going dull or gets clogged, change it.

                Your brain will compensate for dull paper by making you push harder without realizing it.

                I go through a lot of paper.

                IMG_1062.JPG
                 
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                • rod7515

                  rod7515 Well-Known Member

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                  Ok doors are on and Im happy with them. Pics posted in members restoration "66 Dart" Next are the fenders. My first question is when bolting the fenders to the car, can I use the foam sealer that is used for putting toppers on a truck instead of using a seam sealer between the flanges? That way if I ever have to take it apart again they arent glued together. Also does everyone use the factory bolts again to go back together or are you using shiney stainless or plated bolts and washers. I know its probably preference but thought I would ask. I haven't decided yet.
                  Upcoming body work that I need guidance on, The lower factory body line going up to rear lower door as seen in pic below is not on the replacement panels so I need to make them go away. What is going to be the best method? I thought short strand fiber glass or am I going to have to weld it then fill some?
                  DSCN0333.JPG
                  And then theres going to be the rear quarters and how to make the straight body line and keep the curve above the body line where their supposed to be. Heres my starting place below.
                  DSCN0335.JPG DSCN0334.JPG
                  Appreciate any help you can throw my way.
                  As always comments and suggestions welcome. You guys are great!
                  Rod
                   
                • GeorgeH

                  GeorgeH Well-Known Member

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                  Sometimes the strikers need a little persuasion to get them to move outbound. It's a caged nut inside the pillar. I use a slide hammer with a U-shaped attachment to move outbound. Loosen striker, tap, tap, tighten. Sounds like your only getting the first safety latch not the secondary full closed position.
                   
                • GeorgeH

                  GeorgeH Well-Known Member

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                  Not how i would have put that patch in. It created alot of additional work. On top of the other panel and right to the bodyline. Is it glued on? If you want that lower line gone I would weld that. Longitudinal seams like that often have some kind of seam sealer in them from factory. If you just fill over them sometimes you end up with cracks there from body flex etc.
                   
                • rod7515

                  rod7515 Well-Known Member

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                  George, when I first started I wasnt getting the 2nd latch, however after playing for a while I now have good body alignment with both latching stages.
                  As for the rear panels, I had a guy that was going to do the job and he started and then hasn't finished it so I guess im going to finish it.
                  Rod
                   
                • GeorgeH

                  GeorgeH Well-Known Member

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                  Gotcha!
                   
                • rod7515

                  rod7515 Well-Known Member

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                  Can anyone give some advice on what is the best way to hang and align the front fenders? When I took it apart there were 2 shims on each side. I marked them per side but I didnt mark where they were located on that fender.
                  Thanks Rod
                   
                • Tsully

                  Tsully Well-Known Member

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                  They’re not not gonna go back on like they came off....for the simple reason you’ve adjusted the doors and therefore they will need a different alignment as well. It’s gonna be the same as the doors...trial and error! Because now they may not need as many shims as before or they could need more or they could not need any!

                  My question is...are you putting the car together to align all the panels for bodywork and then tear it back apart to paint or once they’re on...they’re not coming back off?
                   
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