Fuel economy issues

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7dswinger said:
I actually have a pretty good inventory of the car, just not the internals of the tranny, engine or rear gear. I installed the EFI and ignition and then went to a shop and they fixed some issues that the car had as well.
The timing curves are completely out of whack as well as the timing of the car, I know that. The engine is perfectly good, great compression, great oil pressure, doesn't over heat.

I hooked up the vac. adv. today and it seems to be working a little better. I still have to adjust the timing curves as well as re-time the car but I think that was the right direction in that sense.

Rice Nuker: I had a factory ignition on it and that was working fine with the EFI and then I moved onto the ignition. I know it's not totally to do with the EFI but probably with the timing and ignition but, you never know.

Your point on the oil leak brings up something I just discovered. I'm getting oil sprayed on the manifold on the drivers side, if you look at the head theres and hole there and it seems to be coming out of it so I believe I have a bad head gasket, any ideas on what this could be?

valentino automotive: The bung is like 3 to 5 inches behind where the exhaust comes together into one pipe (y pipe?).
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That oil spray is most likely the intake manifold gasket. If it isn't sealing correctly it will create a vacuum leak and will also suck oil into the intake tract which would definitely contribute to your fuel economy issues (also cause a loss in power and consume oil).

It should take you just a few minutes to redo your timing curve with that E-curve distributor; MUCH easier than the stock one that uses mechanical weights and springs that you have to fool around with, lots of trial and error. Take a look at the instructions on the MSD site, seems pretty straightforward as long as you have an accurate timing light and timing tape.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
That oil spray is most likely the intake manifold gasket. If it isn't sealing correctly it will create a vacuum leak and will also suck oil into the intake tract which would definitely contribute to your fuel economy issues (also cause a loss in power and consume oil).

It should take you just a few minutes to redo your timing curve with that E-curve distributor; MUCH easier than the stock one that uses mechanical weights and springs that you have to fool around with, lots of trial and error. Take a look at the instructions on the MSD site, seems pretty straightforward as long as you have an accurate timing light and timing tape.
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Which makes sense to me as when I took off the little rubber boot on the throttle body the gas was dark and seemed like it had oil in it, so that explains allot. So then I would need a new manifold gasket then, easy enough then, I'm guessing Mopar Performance, stock gaskets will do?

That is why I got an E-Curve distributor, I was very tired of messing with weights and springs. It is very easy IF you have a timing light AND timing tape, I have no timing tape at the second as the old one fell off and I can't seem to find a replacement at the second, still looking to find one though.

And valentino automotive thanks for the engine shop, I'll look into that one.
 
Here's a picture of the oil leak that I'm talking about, I almost feel like it's coming out of the valve cover gasket....
I cleaned up the small pools of oil before the shot as well but you can still see the oil
 

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Come to think of it it looks more like it could be the valve cover, make sure that's sealing first before you take the intake off.

If the intake gasket is bad it will usually leak air and oil from the valley into an intake port. If you are seeing discolored gas and junk in your throttle body that means you need a new fuel filter and/or clean your gas tank and replace the in-tank pickup filter. What is this rubber boot you are referring to?
 
KitCarlson said:
I read some of the literature on the EZ-EFI. They make claims for power and driveability, I did not see any for economy.

An engine management system that does both EFI and ignition in the box, is an advantage, since there is interplay. With the your system they are both separate.

As others suggest try working with ignition advance. In a self tune EFI system, it learns and needs time to adjust. It also needs various driving conditions to fully complete the maps.
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We built a 67 post dart AWB for Bob Reams here in AZ... he runs a Fast EZ controller on stacks and he gets 27mpg... and thats on a 11 second 6.1 hemi... at cruize you can be up to 15.5 as there is very little load... for most everywhere you need to be at least 14.3:1... WOT and high load area's should be around 13:1...
 
Valve covers may be leaking, but if you pull those intake bolts and clean them off good then apply some sealer and reinstall that will more then likely fix that problem. Probably just oil wicking up the threads.
 
804moparkid: That's why I'm confused on why I'm getting such low fuel economy, from stories like that, makes no sense. I'm running 15.4 on cruise and around 14.8 at idle, WOT's like 14.5 so I guess I'll lower it down to 13.3 and go from there. Any tips on tuning or anything else that you guys did on his system? Maybe I did something completely wrong on the install.

MopeKidD-3: I've got new valve cover gaskets and just in case new manifold gaskets as well along with some sealant so I'll see what happens when I put sealant on the bolts and change the valve cover gaskets. I'm not surprised though as I was getting horrible oil pressure, down to basically 0 at idle and 25psi at cruise so I changed the oil and fuel filter and it's bumped up like 25 to 30psi at idle and 55 to 65psi at cruise.

I"ll check the fuel filter when I can as it's a bit of a process to do so.

So I've hooked up the vac. adv. and changed the adv. curve and it's been better, performance is up off idle and generally but fuel economy I'm not sure of, so definitely the right direction so far, thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.
 
7dswinger said:
804moparkid: That's why I'm confused on why I'm getting such low fuel economy, from stories like that, makes no sense. I'm running 15.4 on cruise and around 14.8 at idle, WOT's like 14.5 so I guess I'll lower it down to 13.3 and go from there. Any tips on tuning or anything else that you guys did on his system? Maybe I did something completely wrong on the install.

MopeKidD-3: I've got new valve cover gaskets and just in case new manifold gaskets as well along with some sealant so I'll see what happens when I put sealant on the bolts and change the valve cover gaskets. I'm not surprised though as I was getting horrible oil pressure, down to basically 0 at idle and 25psi at cruise so I changed the oil and fuel filter and it's bumped up like 25 to 30psi at idle and 55 to 65psi at cruise.

I"ll check the fuel filter when I can as it's a bit of a process to do so.

So I've hooked up the vac. adv. and changed the adv. curve and it's been better, performance is up off idle and generally but fuel economy I'm not sure of, so definitely the right direction so far, thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.
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the benifit of running injection is that it can adjust to all kinds of variables... but there are general rules of what the engine is gonna like... as RPM and LOAD (TPS %) increase the fuel demand is gonna increase...

you may want to call THE carb and injection guy... he can help get a table close...

Bob Reams ,Owner of Imagine Injection...
602-377-4093

http://imagineinjection.com/
 
Spinman1949: I used 10W-30 but that's not what the probable was, it was the oil filter that was clogged as all can be. If you haven't replaced the oil filter yet, replace it and change the oil a the same time. Through some magnets on the side of the oil filter as well and hopefully that'll fix your issue!

Sounds good I'll check that out, thanks
 
That kickdown is not acceptable... You need to have a mopar specific shop take a look and get something closert to factory. That's a huge problem in terms of how the transmission works and your economy. That's as big a problem as the timing curve...

Edit - the oil leak is oil coming up the threads of the intake bolts. Check you pcv system, remove each bolt one at a time and hit the hole with break cleaner, clean the bolt threads and degrease them, use a little liquid teflon on the bolts, and reinstall.
 
moper said:
That kickdown is not acceptable... You need to have a mopar specific shop take a look and get something closert to factory. That's a huge problem in terms of how the transmission works and your economy. That's as big a problem as the timing curve...

Edit - the oil leak is oil coming up the threads of the intake bolts. Check you pcv system, remove each bolt one at a time and hit the hole with break cleaner, clean the bolt threads and degrease them, use a little liquid teflon on the bolts, and reinstall.
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I'm confused, that is the factory one, I pulled it off of a 71 dart at a yard. If it's not factory what is then?

I'll do that along with replacing the gaskets today, thanks.

Update: I picked up a tach yesterday so I can tell what rpm's I'm at much easier as I didn't have a tach before. I'm going to switch the gaskets today along with messing with the timing curves and trying to get the timing dialed in. see how it goes
 
moper said:
That kickdown is not acceptable... You need to have a mopar specific shop take a look and get something closert to factory. That's a huge problem in terms of how the transmission works and your economy. That's as big a problem as the timing curve...

7dswinger said:
I'm confused, that is the factory one, I pulled it off of a 71 dart at a yard. If it's not factory what is then?

Nice catch moper:D. The screw caught my eye earlier but when i relooked, oh my....

7d, not sure what the rest of the linkage looks like, but that adjuster is factory. The major malfuntion is it's pivoting off the bottom of the linkage, basically working backwards. Should be on the high side and be pushed rearward when giving it throttle. Trans wont last long that way. I'll try and find some pics and post'um.
Post #2 here may be of some help http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=15743

A couple so far...
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OldmanRick said:
moper said:
That kickdown is not acceptable... You need to have a mopar specific shop take a look and get something closert to factory. That's a huge problem in terms of how the transmission works and your economy. That's as big a problem as the timing curve...

7dswinger said:
I'm confused, that is the factory one, I pulled it off of a 71 dart at a yard. If it's not factory what is then?

Nice catch moper:D. The screw caught my eye earlier but when i relooked, oh my....

7d, not sure what the rest of the linkage looks like, but that adjuster is factory. The major malfuntion is it's pivoting off the bottom of the linkage, basically working backwards. Should be on the high side and be pushed rearward when giving it throttle. Trans wont last long that way. I'll try and find some pics and post'um.
Post #2 here may be of some help http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=15743

A couple so far...
Click to expand...

So when you push the throttle open the linkage in my picture should be push towards the fire wall and not pulled towards the front of the car?
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So when you push the throttle open the linkage in my picture should be push towards the fire wall and not pulled towards the front of the car?[/QUOTE]

Yes.
I looked at a pic online of what i think is your F.I. and there may be a spot on top for the proper stud/mount. The throttle cable and kickdown mount to the same stud......looks like this...kickdown left side and throttle cable right side.
 

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Ok I'll ask--At an attempt to get"Better fuel mileage" What have you spent thus far???? Not being a smart *** just want to know what you have spent on the efi system??? I get crap here all the time cause i have a 06 hemi with a "Carb" and you had a carb and went with efi....---Steve
 
If it doesn't look like the stud will mount and line up properly as is, you may call Fast and see if they have a bolt on adapter for automatic mopar applications.

When all is connected and adjusted don't forget to run a spring from the stud to linkage like in Post #38, pic #2. That keeps the slop out of it at light throttle.


I should also add that if you see mopars with the K/D linkage connected to the lower side it's because that's a aftermarket cable style not a factory setup.
 
The EFI system is 2300 and ignition system was something like 500 all together.

OldmanRick: ya it does look like that....great. I'll see what I can do. That really helps though thanks.

Edit: Wait, but how is it supposed to push the linkage back when that stud will just life forward and backwards on the kick down linkage connector, this thing. It'll just slid in the slot and not push back, or is that what the spring is for?
http://www.moparfins.com/forum/uploads/143/rod1.jpg
 
7dswinger said:
I installed the EZ EFI system along with an MSD electronic ignition in an attempt to get better fuel economy with performance.
Neither has really happened so far even though I've been tuning the whole system. I'm getting something like 8 to 10 mpg from a 318 that's pretty much stock. Any ideas on how I can get the mileage up?
Also does any one know of a good engine shop in the Bay Area?
Thanks
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What did you get for mileage before the swap? fuel injection isn't gonna give a huge improvement over well set up carb, whats your cruising speed? Headers and duals will help, I put royal purple oil in my jeep that already had synthetic oil in it and got .5 mpg increase.
 
Here's the '72 diagram. The throttle linkage needs to be adjusted in multiple areas to work correctly.
 

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805moparkid said:
We built a 67 post dart AWB for Bob Reams here in AZ... he runs a Fast EZ controller on stacks and he gets 27mpg... and thats on a 11 second 6.1 hemi... at cruize you can be up to 15.5 as there is very little load... for most everywhere you need to be at least 14.3:1... WOT and high load area's should be around 13:1...
Click to expand...
What trans & gear ratio?
 
They will help. Before I was getting something like 7mpg so I got somewhat of an improvement.
I talked to my father and we're going to tare the engine and the ez efi system out of the car to use on another project of ours and instead attach a few horses to this one....not really but we our pulling the engine and putting a late model magnum engine in with the multiport injection from the car in it as well.
Thanks for all the help though it'll help on the next install ;)
 
IMO 1-3 mpg increase is all you can ask from your EFI upgrade, I think your gas mileage problem lies else where cam, gearing and or tranny etc...
 
7dswinger said:
Which makes sense to me as when I took off the little rubber boot on the throttle body the gas was dark and seemed like it had oil in it, so that explains allot. So then I would need a new manifold gasket then, easy enough then, I'm guessing Mopar Performance, stock gaskets will do?

That is why I got an E-Curve distributor, I was very tired of messing with weights and springs. It is very easy IF you have a timing light AND timing tape, I have no timing tape at the second as the old one fell off and I can't seem to find a replacement at the second, still looking to find one though.

And valentino automotive thanks for the engine shop, I'll look into that one.
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Your Welcome.:toothy8:
 
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