Good Streetabe Power

[273]

This is the rub with asking questions about “streetable” anything, the perspective of what is street driven is as wide as there is people driving.
I come from a place where 4:88 gears, cams with close to 300 degrees of duration @050 and 12-1 cr was street driven and there are cars driven on drag n drives with the same plus a Gear Venders.
I personally like the loose converter big cam high horsepower street driver but I can understand that a little more than stock is something people want also but you need to have specific parameters for your question.

True but I'd say the majority has a different idea of what streetability means to them and that's who I'm trying to give some ideas to.

 

[92b]

Why your arguments are strawman, what's the difference running down the track or street other than traction, just cause I bring up track capability doesn't mean were talking about race cars, 1/4 1/8 mile 0 - 60, 0 -100 mph are measure of performance ability a car that's quicker on the track generally gonna be quicker in the streets. You want make an engines potential performance ability about other factors is why your stawmanning this.

For those that have been playing along in this thread we are changing the drinking word from "strawman" to something else. Almost out of beer already. We have already used "Zero" so we can't used that again. I'm thinking " potential" ?

 

[273]

For those that have been playing along in this thread we are changing the drinking word from "strawman" to something else. Almost out of beer already. We have already used "Zero" so we can't used that again. I'm thinking " potential" ?

If I drank every time you made it clear you don’t understand powerbands and gearing, I would’ve die from alcohol poisoning a long time ago

 

[92b]

Why your arguments are strawman, what's the difference running down the track or street other than traction, just cause I bring up track capability doesn't mean were talking about race cars, 1/4 1/8 mile 0 - 60, 0 -100 mph are measure of performance ability a car that's quicker on the track generally gonna be quicker in the streets. You want make an engines potential performance ability about other factors is why your stawmanning this.

The title of the thread is "good streetable power"

"Main advantage of displacement is you can make desired hp at lower rpms which with typical street gearing (2.76-3.55) is a huge advantage, easier to get into the powerband at any given road speed"

I couldn't have said this any better than you did in the above quote. It's like your arguing with yourself.

 

[junkyardhero]

[redacted]

 

[273]

This is the argument you presented to me

Depends on what you mean by "gearing it properly " Are you gearing it properly for a drag race or for a Street car that is driven on the interstate?

In context that a 375 hp 318 can just be as fast as a 375 hp 440, obviously "Performance" in this context is some kind of race nothing else, right from the beginning you want to change the context/argument why I say "strawman" cause that's what your doing, what does the highway have to do with a race between a 318 and 440.

The title of the thread is "good streetable power"

Yes both the 440 and 318 or whatever engine can make good streetable power, no contradictions going on.

"Main advantage of displacement is you can make desired hp at lower rpms which with typical street gearing (2.76-3.55) is a huge advantage, easier to get into the powerband at any given road speed"

I couldn't have said this any better than you did in the above quote. It's like your arguing with yourself.

If we agree why are you arguing ?

Never said 318 was better choice or more streetable than a similar hp 440
just if both 318 and 440 make similar power they can be similarly as fast, do you agree or disagree ?

 

[273]

It has everything to do with the potential performance of the vehicle the engine is in. When I have the conversation with a customer about how cubic inches will affect the potential performance of their vehicle vs cost and the gear they would like to use they will pretty much always choose more cubic inches within the family of engines they are using. To them it makes sense.

If this was the conversation we were having then yes, I agree most would like, be better off etc,, by building larger displacements for a given power.

But were not, were talking about a hypothetical race between a 318 vs 440 none of the above has anything to with it, to me those are design choices.

 

[92b]

just if both 318 and 440 make similar power they can be similarly as fast, do you agree or disagree ?

Depends. Yes if they are they making the same power at the same engine rpm. No, if they don't. One will be more streetable than the other. As in "streetable horsepower" like in the title of the thread.

 

[92b]

If this was the conversation we were having then yes, I agree most would like, be better off etc,, by building larger displacements for a given power.

But were not, were talking about a hypothetical race between a 318 vs 440 none of the above has anything to with it, to me those are design choices.

My mistake I thought we were talking about good streetable horsepower. In your hypothetical race between the 318 vs the 440 the extra power needed to overcome the cubic inch advantage of the 440 is going to come at the expense of streetability. Unless you are going to handicap the 440 with lower performance parts than the 318.

 

[92b]

In context that a 375 hp 318 can just be as fast as a 375 hp 440, obviously "Performance" in this context is some kind of race nothing else, right from the beginning you want to change the context/argument why I say "strawman" cause that's what your doing, what does the highway have to do with a race between a 318 and 440.

Hyway driving has to do with Streetability.

 

[273]

Depends. Yes if they are they making the same power at the same engine rpm.

Well it very unlikely a 318 have it's powerband at same rpm's as a 440, the 318 would need a crazy high torque per cid ratio to do so.

No, if they don't.

Well I guess your answer is no then. well I disagree

One will be more streetable than the other. As in "streetable horsepower" like in the title of the thread.

True but again not really relevant to the conversation at hand, but you could make a streetable 375 hp 318 but yes the 440 would be even more streetable.

 

[273]

My mistake I thought we were talking about good streetable horsepower.

We are but obviously streetable power for whatever size engine you want to build, and the 318 vs 440 was a somewhat off/side topic example someone brought up so not necessarily about the main topic.

In your hypothetical race between the 318 vs the 440 the extra power needed to overcome the cubic inch advantage of the 440

That goes against what power is

Work isl the force used to move an object from one spot to another.
Eg.. like stop light to stop light but in the absence of time it don't matter if were talking 10 seconds or billions of years.

Power is the rate or time it takes to do the work, if it takes the 318 more power to do the same rate of work as the 440 that don't jive with the concept of what power is.

is going to come at the expense of streetability. Unless you are going to handicap the 440 with lower performance parts than the 318.

 

[92b]

but you could make a streetable 375 hp 318 but yes the 440 would be even more streetable.

Agree. And if you built the 440 to the same streetability as the 375 hp 318 it would make more hp than the 318. I said streetability. Everybody drink.

 

[92b]

That goes against what power is

Work isl the force used to move an object from one spot to another.
Eg.. like stop light to stop light but in the absence of time it don't matter if were talking 10 seconds or billions of years.

Power is the rate or time it takes to do the work, if it takes the 318 more power to do the same rate of work as the 440 that don't jive with the concept of what power is.

I think we misunderstand each other here. If a 318 and a 440 were each built with the same level of performance parts the 440 would make more power. Or am I missing something?

 

[273]

Hyway driving has to do with Streetability.

Only if it matters to you, I rarely use the highway and rarely more than 10 minutes at a time, so I could run whatever gears I want plus there is a thing called an O/D.

But yes like I already said more displacement allows for less gearing but again got nothing to do with a race between a 318 and 440.

Pick a lane with the convo.

 

[340six]

When I was younger I would have done the modern hemi swap, that would be logical at the time.

There are member's here who are old enough to think a 426ci gen 2 is modern. Well it is compared to a gen1 lol.

 

[273]

Agree. And if you built the 440 to the same streetability as the 375 hp 318 it would make more hp than the 318. I said streetability. Everybody drink.

Sure but still got nothing to do with a race between a 318 and 440.

 

[273]

I think we misunderstand each other here. If a 318 and a 440 were each built with the same level of performance parts the 440 would make more power. Or am I missing something?

The example was a 375 hp 318 vs 375 hp 440 so that again has nothing to do with it.

 

[junkyardhero]

There are member's here who are old enough to think a 426ci gen 2 is modern. Well it is compared to a gen1 lol.

if a Gen 1 made 375hp and a Gen 2 made 375hp which one would clear the distance between three standard telephone poles quicker?

 

[340six]

if a Gen 1 made 375hp and a Gen 2 made 375hp which one would clear the distance between three standard telephone poles quicker?

Am I on the way to a place to drop a pound of lead and a pound of feathers to see what one hits first?

 

[junkyardhero]

Am I on the way to a place to drop a pound of lead and a pound of feathers to see what one hits first?

no, no. not at all. but you do have a fox, a hen and 12 pounds of grain that you need to get across town.

the caveat is that you only have room for one of those items at a time, so you'll need to choose which motor will get you there the quickest but also be reliable and give the best fuel economy. because you only get 17.6245 litres of petrol to make the whole delivery AND you'll need all of the potential horsepower because, you guessed it, there's banditos on the road! can't get caught man!

 

[340six]

no, no. not at all. but you do have a fox, a hen and 12 pounds of grain that you need to get across town.

the caveat is that you only have room for one of those items at a time, so you'll need to choose which motor will get you there the quickest but also be reliable and give the best fuel economy. because you only get 17.6245 litres of petrol to make the whole delivery AND you'll need all of the potential horsepower because, you guessed it, there's banditos on the road! can't get caught man!it's

Sounds dangerous. Can I just take the stuff on a train that leaves Chicago at 7 a.m.? It's traveling to New York, which is 800 miles away, at 75 mph. Another train leaves New York at the same time, traveling on a parallel track to Chicago at 85 mph. When will the two trains meet? If you figured this out.

The other train has Dan The Man as a passenger travelling to go buy a car. It's a 318 super stocker. It's all stock but runs mid 10s.
How much Horse Power does the just blueprinted 318 need to run 10.5s?

 

[Oldiron440]

Man this has turned into a **** show,
When I first got into Mopar you could buy a running 375hp 440 sometimes with a transmission for $100-$150. And with a set of SS valves, cam and kit, timing set aluminum single plain intake with an Holley 850 and then maybe rings and bearings and some head work with the templates. You could easily have a 500hp street engine that doesn’t require premium fuel.
That was forty years ago and that’s why we didn’t f*ck around with 318s!
There’s no substitute for cubic inches and that’s why you can get a stroker kit for most anything now.
I wonder how many 318s I’ve scrapped or given away over the years, they were as useless as a 8 1/4 axle assembly.

 

[273]

no, no. not at all. but you do have a fox, a hen and 12 pounds of grain that you need to get across town.

the caveat is that you only have room for one of those items at a time, so you'll need to choose which motor will get you there the quickest but also be reliable and give the best fuel economy. because you only get 17.6245 litres of petrol to make the whole delivery AND you'll need all of the potential horsepower because, you guessed it, there's banditos on the road! can't get caught man!

This making more sense than 92b

 

[junkyardhero]

Sounds dangerous. Can I just take the stuff on a train that leaves Chicago at 7 a.m.? It's traveling to New York, which is 800 miles away, at 75 mph. Another train leaves New York at the same time, traveling on a parallel track to Chicago at 85 mph. When will the two trains meet? If you figured this out.

The other train has Dan The Man as a passenger travelling to go buy a car. It's a 318 super stocker. It's all stock but runs mid 10s.
How much Horse Power does the just blueprinted 318 need to run 10.5s?

well, it depends on how much "power under the curve" each train has. the smaller train could potentially get there quicker if it was loaded with strawmans but the larger train could likely get there with less stress to the rails, but it's hauling goal posts.

the train with the mini van man is actually a small boat and it only goes in circles in the harbor because it only has one oar.