Hard start...
- Thread starter TheGreenBastard
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TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
The coiled up wires are from the brand new harness. The wiring for the lights are not done yet
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
I was going by what 67dart273 was telling me to do. Was hoping he would chime in
skep419
5.9 Magnum 4 speed afficionado
If it dies when the key returns to run it could be a problem with ignition 1? Have you tried running a jumper from the battery to the coil and see if it stays running? Hope you’re able to figure it out.
Yeh, I don't have documentation on the aftermarket harnesses any more., the simple answer is, if you are using a stock mopar key switch, you need to find out if power for IGN1 (ignition run) is leaving the switch, and then follow it from there.
There are only so many outputs from the switch, and the only switched power under the hood, other than lighting and wipers, is "ignition run" and the bypass circuit.
There are only so many outputs from the switch, and the only switched power under the hood, other than lighting and wipers, is "ignition run" and the bypass circuit.
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
Thank you for all your help. It is the stock mopar key switch. This would have nothing to do with the electric choke switch being broke since the 70s right ? Also it did start right up when I put the jumper wire in like you told me but only once. The two brown wires were original and only ones that had ower is that ignition one?
Step back and go back to basics
When the ignition switch is in "run" you should have anywhere from 6-10V at the coil. Full battery means the ballast is out of the circuit OR THAT the ignition box is not pulling current, which it should be. Lower than 6 means poor wiring connections or some other problem such as a bad ignition switch itself
When the key is in "start" the coil plus should have close to "same as battery," meaning if that the battery is pulled down to 10.5 when cranking, then the coil + should be so.
If one or the other of those is not true, it's right there in that immediate circuit, from the key switch IGN1 / IGN2 terminals, through the bulkhead, and out to the ballast and coil connections.
YOU SHOULD BE able to jumper 12V direct to the coil+ for testing and get it to run. If not, you may have problems in the ignition system, whether wiring, connections, a bad coil or bad ignition box.
THAT IS what I would do FIRST, get it running on just the basic system since you can't seem to figure it out.
EDIT see very bottom of post
With power jumpered direct to the coil, a test gap at the coil tower, and cranking the engine either with the key or by jumpering the start relay, you should get nice fat rhythmic sparks out of the coil
I saw your message. So is this a "big cap" HEI with the coil in the cap? In that case it gets more simple. You have ONE power wire feeding the HEI
You say "the two browns" but see I don't know what that is. You need to ID the brown (if it IS brown) that comes from the IGN2 on the key. This is hot in start/ crank just like the yellow "start" wire is hot in start
You need to id the IGN1 wire which is hot ONLY in "run." Connect those two together and connect both of them to the power feed to the HEI
With modified harness/ wiring, it is impossible to talk colors, unless we know that what you are referring to mataches OEM. If not then you have to go clear back to the ignition switch
When the ignition switch is in "run" you should have anywhere from 6-10V at the coil. Full battery means the ballast is out of the circuit OR THAT the ignition box is not pulling current, which it should be. Lower than 6 means poor wiring connections or some other problem such as a bad ignition switch itself
When the key is in "start" the coil plus should have close to "same as battery," meaning if that the battery is pulled down to 10.5 when cranking, then the coil + should be so.
If one or the other of those is not true, it's right there in that immediate circuit, from the key switch IGN1 / IGN2 terminals, through the bulkhead, and out to the ballast and coil connections.
YOU SHOULD BE able to jumper 12V direct to the coil+ for testing and get it to run. If not, you may have problems in the ignition system, whether wiring, connections, a bad coil or bad ignition box.
THAT IS what I would do FIRST, get it running on just the basic system since you can't seem to figure it out.
EDIT see very bottom of post
With power jumpered direct to the coil, a test gap at the coil tower, and cranking the engine either with the key or by jumpering the start relay, you should get nice fat rhythmic sparks out of the coil
I saw your message. So is this a "big cap" HEI with the coil in the cap? In that case it gets more simple. You have ONE power wire feeding the HEI
You say "the two browns" but see I don't know what that is. You need to ID the brown (if it IS brown) that comes from the IGN2 on the key. This is hot in start/ crank just like the yellow "start" wire is hot in start
You need to id the IGN1 wire which is hot ONLY in "run." Connect those two together and connect both of them to the power feed to the HEI
With modified harness/ wiring, it is impossible to talk colors, unless we know that what you are referring to mataches OEM. If not then you have to go clear back to the ignition switch
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TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
Thank you for taking the time to respond. So my bad on the application terminology. I installed a progressive ignition Bluetooth distributor. Before that I had a proform distributor in. No spark was the problem. After putting the progressive ignition distributor in is now where I'm at. She's cranking firing up but as stated prior. As soon as I let go on the crank she stops. Only way to start her is pump gas and lay on the starter which is horrible to do. I am in a horrible spot my mechanic i had helping with the wiring bailed on this project and left it wired with the jumper from the pink wires connected to the coil. I told him there should be wires for ign 1 and ign 2. Told me I'm wrong. So I'm at my wits end. I just want her to fire up and not stall out
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
The two brown wires are what I checked with your advice by using a 12v light the two brown wires were on the whitish piece that was originally connect to the ballast
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
It's not the coil it's brand new msd 2.
OK it's important we know this, and I didn't realize
Is this here what you have?
If it will start with power jumped as the diagram shows, AKA coil + then this should be simple
All you need to do is start at the key switch, look up the ORIGINAL car wiring diagram and identify the switch connections, then REGARDLESS of whatever color wire is used, trace the IGN1 and IGN2 out through the bulkhead wherever they go. They are also going to have to be connected to whatever is under the hood that needs "run" power, AKA VR power, alternator field, choke if used, and of course ignition system, and that means the coil +
If you do not have one by now, run over to MyMopar.com and download the two volumes for the 73 service manual. I believe it is Dodge.
This is the switch connector, right out of the 73 manual
S2-12Y is the yellow start wire, goes out through the bulkhead to the start relay one of two "push on" terminals
Q2-12BK is the ACC power is hot in ACC or "run"
J2-12DBL is the Dark BLue "run" wire, hot ONLY in run
J3-12BR is the BRown bypass wire.
(The above two you need to trace out into the engine bay and hook them together, and hook to the coil +. J3 is hot in "start" ONLY)
J1-12R is the Red hot feed providing power TO the switch
E2-18O is Orange dimmer controlled lighting for the shift quadrant
The bottom two, small Black, are for the "key in" buzzer and lighting
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You are kinda on your own from here, as I have no idea what has been done with wire routing or wire colors between the ignition switch and the bay. I also have no idea what was done with the bulkhead connector, or what condition the terminals might be in.
And TEST this AT THE KEY SWITCH, because it is possible that it is screwed up internally. Take your meter/ lamp, and see if the "run" is hot in run, and if the brown bypass is hot in "start." Then trace from there.
And TEST this AT THE KEY SWITCH, because it is possible that it is screwed up internally. Take your meter/ lamp, and see if the "run" is hot in run, and if the brown bypass is hot in "start." Then trace from there.
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
So when i put it in run it definitely has power because to run the progressive ignition app it has to be in run. Powered to connect via Bluetooth. It's just when I hit start. She fires up and when I let off of it. She stalls out it's a horrible feeling. Im so close
Your car would have originally had Chrys Elec ign which used TWO bal resistors [ BRs]. There would have been two wires going to the BRs, a blue & a brown wire. If your new dist hooks up as shown in post #38, then it sounds like only the brown wire has been connected. The blue wire also needs to ber connected so that in post #38, the brown AND blue wire are connected to the coil +ve terminal.
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
Still chasing this problem. I attached photos of the harness and the wiring. There are two brown wires and 2 pink wires. It won't even turn over now. She's definitely getting gas just not turning over. The harness instructions say connect the brown and pink together. One is ign1 and the other is ign 2
OK, look I do not understand what you have actually checked. Have you checked power AT THE ignition switch connector?
If so, do you have a bulkhead connector, or has that been eliminated. There is only so much that this can be.
1...Trouble right in the ignition switch contacts. Bad switch. This can "come and go" AKA intermittent
2..Poor connections at the ignition switch/ harness connector.
3..If you still have a bulkhead connector, poor connections at those terminals
You only have two circuits, here, "run" and "bypass". Two wires. It is not clear to me if you have actually dug into this with a test light or meter.
If so, do you have a bulkhead connector, or has that been eliminated. There is only so much that this can be.
1...Trouble right in the ignition switch contacts. Bad switch. This can "come and go" AKA intermittent
2..Poor connections at the ignition switch/ harness connector.
3..If you still have a bulkhead connector, poor connections at those terminals
You only have two circuits, here, "run" and "bypass". Two wires. It is not clear to me if you have actually dug into this with a test light or meter.
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
The bulk head is there. It was initially hooked up to the 4 prong ballast resistor. I posted pics in the originally thread wouldn't let me attach them to this direct message chat. I messed with it today. It seemed like it wanted to turn over but wouldn't
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
Photos of current debacle
TheGreenBastard
The Green Bastard (Parts Unknown)
So I used the test light the brown the two browns wires nothing lights up. There are two pink wires. When I test it they light up green. Meaning it's a ground not positive. The negative side of the coil is green and the positive side lights up green as well. This is driving me crazy. It will crank but no start
Look you are not following. You have two wires from the key switch. You NEED to get BACK TO the key and verify that the IGN1 terminal in "run" is live, and that the IGN2 in "start" is live. Then trace those wires from the key out through the bulkhead to the coil. You have the switch/ switch connector, the bulkhead terminals, and wherever the two wires go once in the engine bay.
You are making this hard. It is not.
It could be the actual ignition switch is bad/ internittent
It could be that the ign switch connector has bad terminals, or BECAUSE this is a rewire, that the wires are CROSSED UP
It could be the two wires have bad terminals in the bulkhead connector or that the bulkhead connector is mis wired.
Go to the switch. The connector can come down below the column, if you remove the short trim piece under the column. Easy. If the proper terminals on the bulkhead don't jibe and aren't workng, then pull the ignition harness/ engine bay side loose there at the bulkhead, and find where those two are.
THERE IS ONLY ONE switched wire coming into the engine bay, hot in run. It comes direct from the key, IGN1
There are TWO wires that come alive in start. One is the yellow "start" wire, the other is the brown bypass circuit. They both act the same but are separate switch contacts. OEM wire colors.
You are making this hard. It is not.
It could be the actual ignition switch is bad/ internittent
It could be that the ign switch connector has bad terminals, or BECAUSE this is a rewire, that the wires are CROSSED UP
It could be the two wires have bad terminals in the bulkhead connector or that the bulkhead connector is mis wired.
Go to the switch. The connector can come down below the column, if you remove the short trim piece under the column. Easy. If the proper terminals on the bulkhead don't jibe and aren't workng, then pull the ignition harness/ engine bay side loose there at the bulkhead, and find where those two are.
THERE IS ONLY ONE switched wire coming into the engine bay, hot in run. It comes direct from the key, IGN1
There are TWO wires that come alive in start. One is the yellow "start" wire, the other is the brown bypass circuit. They both act the same but are separate switch contacts. OEM wire colors.
I can't say I wasn't thinking it.
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