HELP - Cragar SS Lug Nut Washers Keep Crushing - Need Alternatives!

Tires and Wheels (Mopar Hubcaps Too)

  1. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod Weenie idiot loser. FABO Gold Member

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    Very difficult to see for sure, but it does not have to have "much" of a seat. Just a chamfur on the inside of the hole is enough.
     
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    • 416stroker

      416stroker Well-Known Member

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      I got 20 of them mounted on my 47 year old Cragars on my Dart. 10 lefts and 10 rights.
       
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      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Does that lug hole have a washer stuck in it? That does not look conical to me........

        img_20190108_093013956-jpg.jpg
         
      • Mattax

        Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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        Agree. There's not much, but it sure isn't flat either.

        mobilecustoms - you could stick a piece of clay on the hole to better see the shape.
        Basically I think RRR is right on this.

        Only thing to watch for on those is the diameter isn't too large. With conical seat, thats what the nut and wheel should center on - the seats.
        Thread engagement rule of thumb is equal to the diameter but at least 5 threads no matter what. With the sbp I like to see closer to 10.
        Gorilla brand had a good selection of 7/16-20, at least they used to.

        55 ft lbs is all that Chrysler called for. I know its alot less than AMC and GM call for on their 7/16 lug nuts, but 55 is all thats needed to properly tension the Chryslers. I do tend to err on the high side and set the final torque target to 57 ft lbs.
         
        Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
      • HemiSSDart

        HemiSSDart Dartus Interuptus

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        The original 4" bolt pattern Cragars were only 14" wheels with straight shank lugnuts and flat washers. I have no idea what the newly made wheels, especially the 15" versions use.
         
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        • MobileCustoms

          MobileCustoms Well-Known Member

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          The surface on my wheels are definitely flat, not conical at all... The marks you see in the photos are from the old washers grinding around, trying to tighten them. Once the lugnut sunk into the washers, it would spin the washer around as you try to tighten it. The biggest problem seems that practically there's no shoulder at all on the lugnuts to even grab the washer flat.
          IMG_20190108_173850190.jpg IMG_20190108_173836940.jpg
           
        • Dicer

          Dicer Diceman FABO Gold Member

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          Pretty sure you have the right lug nut, got to have the shank length right?, @67Dart273...I have to agree the washers have to fit into the indents, if not the washer will start to fold and drag. Back in the day I remember washers for rims that that was elongated for different makes, ford/ Mopar rims... chev had their dream.
           
        • MobileCustoms

          MobileCustoms Well-Known Member

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          I think it's just a piss-poor lugnut design. The washer should be built into the lugnut as a shoulder... like an ARP type of bolt. not 2 pieces that fight each other.
          Basically like @Dicer said, "Mag Seat" type of lug nuts.

          f313e159-405d-4504-ab5d-9b07989843a4_1.6542c5c1e93cf19372c2a6150e15f2c1.jpeg
           
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          • Mike69cuda

            Mike69cuda 64 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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            I bought new 15 inch sbp cragars last year. They are the kind with the conical seats. They work great. I torque to 55 ft lbs. pictures attached.

            C4EEB4A8-A465-476A-BE46-0B67713D3A26.jpeg

            9ED9AF4D-1CFD-4342-9303-632E7363BE50.jpeg
             
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            • 4spdragtop

              4spdragtop Well-Known Member

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              I broke the same lugnut by overtorquing. Spec for factory stud in 67 I believe is ONLY 55 lb/ft and had trouble finding a replacement lug and washer. I remember checking out here.
              Mag
              I will see what I have for washers.
               
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              • Johnny Dart

                Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

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                The wheels look like they have been over torqued, creating an uneven surface for the washer. Cragar has a torque spec for these wheels, and now we all see why.
                 
              • Dicer

                Dicer Diceman FABO Gold Member

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                ^^^^You found them, Excellent!
                 
              • Mike69cuda

                Mike69cuda 64 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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                I looked at a bunch of torque charts on the internet and the torque for a grade 5 7/16-20 bolt is 55 ft lbs dry. Assuming that the studs are grade 5, this correlates well with the Chrysler spec.
                 
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                • scott657

                  scott657 Well-Known Member

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                  The conical with the shank is known as an E.T. Lug nut. I've used them successfully when not much stud to work with
                   
                • 4spdragtop

                  4spdragtop Well-Known Member

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                  Found mine, same lug nuts, here is washer with dimensions. No issues, they are not chromed. I'll see if I can find receipt to where I got them from. Is the conical style to be used with these rims?

                  20190108_220241.jpg

                  20190108_220338.jpg

                  20190108_220417.jpg

                  20190108_220450.jpg
                   
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                  • MobileCustoms

                    MobileCustoms Well-Known Member

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                    • 4spdragtop

                      4spdragtop Well-Known Member

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                      Yep, hard as frick to find. That's why I kept the bag with part #'s. Cant remember where I got washers from. I'll do some more digging.
                       
                    • gdrill

                      gdrill OK, now what??? Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                      I have some of those crap washers as well. Many of them are warped. I don't use them. I try to find a more robust washer. The good ones are not only a smidge thicker, but I swear they are better steel too.
                       
                    • MobileCustoms

                      MobileCustoms Well-Known Member

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                      I wish I could at least just buy some new washers without the the lugnuts and give them another fresh go while keeping a close eye on them and the torque. I'll give Cragar another call tomorrow.
                       
                    • 4spdragtop

                      4spdragtop Well-Known Member

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                      I believe Cragar rims and Cragar lugnuts/hardware are 2 different companies now?
                       
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                      • gdrill

                        gdrill OK, now what??? Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                        The last of my good ones I had were also actually chromed.
                         
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                        • Mattax

                          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                          Yep. Just like a stock steel rim.
                           
                        • Daves69

                          Daves69 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          IMO, These small Cragar 7/16" lugs/washers were a PITA even 35 years ago. Just not enough clamp surface. They loosened up too easily even when torqued correctly.
                          It doesn't take long for the "built in" washer on the nut to dig into the flat washers they supplied. So that indent in the washer X 5 is what's doing the work on the wheel. Lol, Over time after repeated re-torque, ya' started working on the hex too.

                          Was more than happy to swap to 4-1/2" BC discs with the 1/2"-20 lugs.

                          upload_2019-1-10_8-44-29.png

                          upload_2019-1-10_8-32-25.png
                           
                        • 4spdragtop

                          4spdragtop Well-Known Member

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                          Dave, do/did yours loosen up? My washers look same as yours and would "mark up" some. But they didnt loosen up?
                          Cool old pic!
                           
                        • 69_340_GTS

                          69_340_GTS Well-Known Member

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                          The old Cragar flat washers were hardened. The new stuff is not. Plus it's probably the cheapest Chinesium-metal they can get. As I mentioned previously, McGard at one time had the correct nuts with nice hardened washers. Not shown in their current on-line catalog, but I'd call them about it anyway. Or possibly try Gorilla Automotive.

                          By the way, nobody makes off-the-shelf washers that are the correct size for these nuts. I looked at every SAE, metric, aircraft, military, washer in existence and nobody has anything close.
                           
                          Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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