Come on, leave crud in a new engine? Please, clean it out. Of course it is your engine do what you think is best. MT:burnout:
Help! Wiped cam lobes? - Video inside
- Thread starter perko
- Start date
-
Come on, leave crud in a new engine? Please, clean it out. Of course it is your engine do what you think is best. MT:burnout:
perko
Well-Known Member
yeah, that carbon build up is really kicking me while i'm down. I was able to use an ice pick and a screw driver to get a lot of it out using a shop-vac for local air. no way i'm going to get all of it without some serious chemicals or power tools though.
So how clean do the mating surfaces really need to be? I've been scraping and scraping and rubbing it with an acitone soaked rag but some stuff will just not come off. It looks more like staining? Nothing feels 3D, for example there is a faint line where the old intake rubber bead used to sit that I can't get rid of and a dark stain around the carbon port on the mating surface.
So how clean do the mating surfaces really need to be? I've been scraping and scraping and rubbing it with an acitone soaked rag but some stuff will just not come off. It looks more like staining? Nothing feels 3D, for example there is a faint line where the old intake rubber bead used to sit that I can't get rid of and a dark stain around the carbon port on the mating surface.
BlueDream
Aspiring Mopar enthusiast
What I do is use a putty knife or a chisel to scrape off all the old gasket and then go over the mating surface with scotch brite until it's clean. Then spray with starting fluid and wipe down with a lint free rag to get any oil residue off. Getting all the old timing cover gasket off can be a pain but the intake shouldn't be too bad. Just be sure to keep junk from getting into your engine while it's opened up. Also, patience is key.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
True staining is OK. Use a bit of fine grit sandpaper or crocous cloth to finish it off. Just be very careful where the grit goes.
Cleaning is sooo much fun.. .but is soo critical to good results. Keep at it.
Cleaning is sooo much fun.. .but is soo critical to good results. Keep at it.
perko
Well-Known Member
So... question. The cam shaft moves forward and back a few centimeters, however it is not engaged to the oil pump gear yet. Is that normal? Or did I install something incorrectly? The thrust plate is torqued down to spec. My books don't really have any specific information on the cam instillation. Basically just says to carefully put it in there.
Also, should I be putting lock tight on anything during re-assembly?
Also, should I be putting lock tight on anything during re-assembly?
Cam movement is ok. I tend to use blue thread locker on every bolt. But hey that is me.
d55dave
Well-Known Member
While running the taper of the lobes as well as the oil pump drive push the can forward against the thrust plate.
perko
Well-Known Member
Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for the peace of mind. It seemed like everything was in correctly. I got the cam in, but work picked up in a big way so I won't have a day off for the next few weeks. Does anyone think that could cause a problem with the cam lube or anything if its sitting there exposed to the air? I'm less than 5 miles from the ocean so things tend to corrode quickly here.
Also, I'm tallying up the last few parts that I need to order and I remembered that I broke one of the springs on the throttle linkage when i was taking it apart. Its the rusty one that's under tension in the picture. I've googled and there doesn't seem to be any spectacular websites to order special springs. What should I be looking for when I try to order one? I was hoping i could just get a spring kit or something and replace them all but i'm having trouble finding anything.
Also, I'm tallying up the last few parts that I need to order and I remembered that I broke one of the springs on the throttle linkage when i was taking it apart. Its the rusty one that's under tension in the picture. I've googled and there doesn't seem to be any spectacular websites to order special springs. What should I be looking for when I try to order one? I was hoping i could just get a spring kit or something and replace them all but i'm having trouble finding anything.
d55dave
Well-Known Member
The rusty spring that is still connected in your pick is not the throttle return spring, it is holding the kickdown (transmission pressure valve) all the way forward. You could either bend another loop in the end (if the loop broke off), go to your best local hardware store and check out their spring selection or have a stroll throughout your local wrecking yard. DO NOT run the car without the transmission kick down linkage, you will fry the transmission.
perko
Well-Known Member
So I went to install the timing chain after work today and noticed that the little notch on the camshaft that mates up to the timing gear is not there. Its a groove instead of a raised piece of metal. It almost looks like it was supposed to be pressed in at the factory but never was? There's no way I'm supposed to have put it in is there? Is this a manufacturing defect?
That's where the woodruff key goes. Take it out of the old cam and put it in the new one.
perko
Well-Known Member
Thanks, you guys are way better than the book that i've got.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
that must have taken some selfcontrol
looking at those pictures, are we missing the hole in the one bolt?
you may want to drill a 1/8 hole in one, proper description can be found here
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=287231&highlight=front+end+assemble
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 26,608
- Reaction score
- 13,844
Is that thrust plate on backwards?I dont think it matters but ...........
Camshaft endplay is spec'd at .002 to .006, max .010, with sprocket installed.
Missing chain-oiler hole
The torque on the little bolts is 210 inch lbs
The center bolt is 35 foot lbs.
Like said, blue loc-tite. Cause if they come out........!
Camshaft endplay is spec'd at .002 to .006, max .010, with sprocket installed.
Missing chain-oiler hole
The torque on the little bolts is 210 inch lbs
The center bolt is 35 foot lbs.
Like said, blue loc-tite. Cause if they come out........!
And stuff a rag in the oil pan gap so that when you drop that woodruff key it doesn't fall in the oil pan. I use a pair of wire cutters, good ones ans grab the key in the old cam and pry up to remove the key. They can be a booger to remove.
65Val
Average Length Member
Yes it is!
I don't think it is? But I may be wrong?
Thrust plate is on backwards. You should also drill a hole completely through the center of the upper passenger's side thrust plate bolt.
perko
Well-Known Member
Thanks for pointing out the thrust plate. I was installing it how I took it apart so whoever had it before flipped it. The woodruff key makes sense now that I think about it and look closely. I had to destroy the old one getting it out, but luckily the machine shop down the street had one.
If anyone ends up checking this thread out for their own swap here's some great tutorials. Thanks to KrazyKuda and 96 MOP.
How to assemble the front end.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=287231&page=2
Timing tip.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-263043.html
Questions:
1. I'm still a little confused about how I'm going to time the engine after I install this chain. From what i've read when the dots on the cam/crank sprockets are aligned 12 and 6 the engine is in fact on the #6 compression stroke correct? So before I drop in the distributor and get ready to fire it I will need to turn the crank around so that #1 is on TDC. at this point both dots should be at 12 and then i should make sure that #1 is indeed at TDC?
2. When I installed the cam I had to pull up the gear for the oil pump. I can just place it back down correct? Ideally with the distributor shaft hole thing pointing at cylinder 1.
I'm going to go drill this hole, that presumably helps to get oil onto the tab thing that mounts to the bottom of the thrust plate and helps direct oil to the chain?
If anyone ends up checking this thread out for their own swap here's some great tutorials. Thanks to KrazyKuda and 96 MOP.
How to assemble the front end.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=287231&page=2
Timing tip.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-263043.html
Questions:
1. I'm still a little confused about how I'm going to time the engine after I install this chain. From what i've read when the dots on the cam/crank sprockets are aligned 12 and 6 the engine is in fact on the #6 compression stroke correct? So before I drop in the distributor and get ready to fire it I will need to turn the crank around so that #1 is on TDC. at this point both dots should be at 12 and then i should make sure that #1 is indeed at TDC?
2. When I installed the cam I had to pull up the gear for the oil pump. I can just place it back down correct? Ideally with the distributor shaft hole thing pointing at cylinder 1.
I'm going to go drill this hole, that presumably helps to get oil onto the tab thing that mounts to the bottom of the thrust plate and helps direct oil to the chain?
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 26,608
- Reaction score
- 13,844
No,That is all wrong.....Well not all, all.lol
You got it all figured out right, but;
If you try it your way, its almost impossible, okay just very difficult, to see 1 camtooth out of time.
You can do it that way,but you better be 100% sure that the sprockets are correctly timed.
Here's how I do it; I put the sprockets onto their respective snouts, and rotate the shafts so that the dots are about nose to nose. Then I put the sprockets into the chain dot to dot.I take that assy and lay it on a straight-edge, like a sheet of paper, such that the straight-edge passes through the exact center of the sprocket bores and through the dots. Thats 4 things that need to line up.From this point on, if the chain never slips a link on either sprocket, it doesnt matter where the keyways are, just so long as you are able to slide the sprockets onto them. The key is to pinch the chain-runs together during the trip from the bench to the engine, so that nothing slips.
From here, I install the cam-bolt, and rotate the crankshaft about 1 turn to put #1 piston at or near TDC/compression, and its ready for the dizzy drive.
Now, you need to research timing the cam to the camcard.
As for the oilpump drive; While you can plop it down into the hole any old way, and still make it run, it is however, best to install it in a certain position. And that position is such that, with the hex-drive fully bottomed in the oilpump, the slot (not the distributor shaft hole thingy),is pointing to the driver-side front intake bolt, with the #1 piston at tdc compression.Sometimes the hex doesnt line up with the oilpump, and the shaft wont drop fully down.If this happens to you, the crank will have to be turned a bit until it does drop in. Remember to put the crank back where you found it. ................So you got that right,too.
So it best to have the timing cover on and the ballancer installed first.I also wait until the topend is fully assembled, so I can tell that the #1 piston is obviously at TDC compression, because BOTH valves will be closed.In this way I dont wipe the special lube off the cam needlessly.
Now, why do we put the slot in this position? It is because in this position the dizzy will drop in, with the rotor aligned to the tower on the cap that was originally,from the factory, indicated to be number 1, and, with the vacuum advance can in a location where it ends up free of obstructions, so that we will be able to move the dizzy, to set the timing. If your dizzy doesnt have a Vcan, nor an indexed cap, it would be possible to slam it in any old way, and just put the no 1 wire into whatever tower the rotor ends up under. Cool.
As to the drilled bolt, what did Rusty say? Go look it up.
You got it all figured out right, but;
If you try it your way, its almost impossible, okay just very difficult, to see 1 camtooth out of time.
You can do it that way,but you better be 100% sure that the sprockets are correctly timed.
Here's how I do it; I put the sprockets onto their respective snouts, and rotate the shafts so that the dots are about nose to nose. Then I put the sprockets into the chain dot to dot.I take that assy and lay it on a straight-edge, like a sheet of paper, such that the straight-edge passes through the exact center of the sprocket bores and through the dots. Thats 4 things that need to line up.From this point on, if the chain never slips a link on either sprocket, it doesnt matter where the keyways are, just so long as you are able to slide the sprockets onto them. The key is to pinch the chain-runs together during the trip from the bench to the engine, so that nothing slips.
From here, I install the cam-bolt, and rotate the crankshaft about 1 turn to put #1 piston at or near TDC/compression, and its ready for the dizzy drive.
Now, you need to research timing the cam to the camcard.
As for the oilpump drive; While you can plop it down into the hole any old way, and still make it run, it is however, best to install it in a certain position. And that position is such that, with the hex-drive fully bottomed in the oilpump, the slot (not the distributor shaft hole thingy),is pointing to the driver-side front intake bolt, with the #1 piston at tdc compression.Sometimes the hex doesnt line up with the oilpump, and the shaft wont drop fully down.If this happens to you, the crank will have to be turned a bit until it does drop in. Remember to put the crank back where you found it. ................So you got that right,too.
So it best to have the timing cover on and the ballancer installed first.I also wait until the topend is fully assembled, so I can tell that the #1 piston is obviously at TDC compression, because BOTH valves will be closed.In this way I dont wipe the special lube off the cam needlessly.
Now, why do we put the slot in this position? It is because in this position the dizzy will drop in, with the rotor aligned to the tower on the cap that was originally,from the factory, indicated to be number 1, and, with the vacuum advance can in a location where it ends up free of obstructions, so that we will be able to move the dizzy, to set the timing. If your dizzy doesnt have a Vcan, nor an indexed cap, it would be possible to slam it in any old way, and just put the no 1 wire into whatever tower the rotor ends up under. Cool.
As to the drilled bolt, what did Rusty say? Go look it up.
Dot to dot is on #6, Both at 12 o clock is #1
perko
Well-Known Member
Fail! Ha ha, do yourself a favor and get a legit metal bit. Also use proper PPE or you'll be pulling metal shavings out of your hand.
perko
Well-Known Member
So... The smallest grade 8 bolt with the correct thread is 3/4 inches long while the original bolts are 1/2 inch long. They do however have a grade 5 bolt that is the correct length. Does anyone thing that the slightly longer grade 8 bolt will interfere with anything on the other side of the block? I'm a little skeptical about using the weaker grade 5 since the stock bolts appear to be grade 8 as well.
Why not shorten the grade 8's?
-
Similar threads
