Help with brakes on 64 Valiant please

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Kmrumedy

Kmrumedy

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I will be converting my front drum brakes to Wilwoods front disc brake conversion for my 64 Valiant. I was all set to purchase the 9in kit. I was told it had the original drums.

Did 64's only come in 9 inch drums?

However, when I measured the studs I discovered I have large bolt pattern.

image_zps5f27b8cd.jpg


I wasn't sure how the car could have LBP on 9 in drums so when I removed the wheel I saw this....

image_zpsfed62df6.jpg


image_zpsa64e0ab1.jpg


Looks like they re-drilled the brake drums and put the long studs. Not sure
how common that is to do. I have seen the rear axles being drilled through but not fronts. Anyone else seen this?

So now I am not sure if I have 9 or 10 inch drums and spindles. Is there way to easily tell what size these are? I need to order the brake kit this week and don't want to order the wrong kit.

I measured the back of the drum at 10 inches.

image_zps75a15797.jpg


Is the only way to tell for sure to take the drum off and measure the inside diameter to know if it is 9" or 10"?

Thanks in advance for your help.

( wheels are 15 in Weld Racing)

pic of car is this matters...

image_zps1fc6051e.jpg
 
It should be stamped on the face of the drum itself. Did the same thing to 2 Darts I had, both slant 6 cars.Photos look like 9'' but if not marked pull one and measure to be sure.Looks like it should slide off the hub like a rear drum because of the mod.Mine did.
 
Look like 9's to me too, the friction part of the drum is inboard of the edge so your 10 is misleading. Common to redrill so you have matching rims when you do up an 8.25 or Dana or cutter 8 3/4 out of a C body.
 
you had mentioned tires rubbing the headers in turns, switching to mpar 74 and up disc brakes moves the wheeles farther away from the frame rails about one inch per side.then get you some willwoods up on there :)
 
Frig you guys are good! Thanks. I will check the wheels out again today and look for the numbers. I will post an update.

Waggin - I thought the 73-75 disc brake upgrade only fit a bodies from 68 - 72? Do they fit early A's too? What other parts of the 73-75 upper brake system would I need to do this? Upper control arms etc?
 
Yep, early A's too. Did my 63 Valiant with them. The upper a-arms need not replaced as bushings are sold by Dr. Diff (Google) $35 for the kit. I will be trying these for the first time on the latest project. Some say yes and some say no but I used spindles from (F-M-J) cars such as a 85 Dodge Diplomat,the master, rotors,calipers,brackets from the same car.Same with the proportion valve,though I buy a adjustable one.
 
Darter6 said:
Yep, early A's too. Did my 63 Valiant with them. The upper a-arms need not replaced as bushings are sold by Dr. Diff (Google) $35 for the kit. I will be trying these for the first time on the latest project. Some say yes and some say no but I used spindles from (F-M-J) cars such as a 85 Dodge Diplomat,the master, rotors,calipers,brackets from the same car.Same with the proportion valve,though I buy a adjustable one.
Click to expand...

Sweet. My friend also suggested looking at Dr Diff. Thanks for confirming this. More research to do.....
 
Kmrumedy said:
I will be converting my front drum brakes to Wilwoods front disc brake conversion for my 64 Valiant. I was all set to purchase the 9in kit. I was told it had the original drums.
Click to expand...

They look like re-drilled 9-in. Definitely take one off & inspect the spindle size if you go with Wilwoods. The 9-in spindles have smaller bearing sizes than the 10-in & I would not use them for a hi-performance application. You can re-use the upper & lower control arms, just buy a set of 10-in drum spindles from any year A-body which should be dirt cheap.

I put the Wilwoods on my car & they work really great with a manual master cylinder, almost feels like power brakes. The marginally cheaper way is to use the later factory setups as mentioned depending on what you can scrounge up.

Discbrakeswilwood3.jpg
 
Just remembered there's a really easy way to find out if you have 9-in spindles without taking the drum off. On the 10-in drums, the spindle attachment point is perpendicular to the car as shown in my pic. The 9-in spindle is bent around & attaches to the upper ball joint parallel to the car. Looks from your pic that you have 9-in spindles.
 
or you could go with the scarebird conversion (cheaper than wildwood) plus you can get the parts at any auto store. the adapters that I got for my 9" conversion work on either 9" or 10" by just flipping them side to side. if you have the large bolt patern already drilled in the hubs then you have the hard part done already:D now all you need is the adapter and stuff.


I just redid a friends 65 Plymouth satellite that had wildwood on it with some bad rotors and calipers.($$$$ to replace) we slapped the scarebird conversion on and they stop even better (got rid of the wildwood 1 + inch big bore master really helped too!) went to a 15/16 bore master and now the old guy can actually stop the car without standing on it as hard as he could, it has more travel but better braking feel.
 
as seen in one of his other posts he has a problem with the tires hitting the headers on tight turns is why I suggested the fmj disc brake spindles. Can he get the willwood stuff to fit them? that would give him more tire clearance in tight turns???
66Dvert said:
or you could go with the scarebird conversion (cheaper than wildwood) plus you can get the parts at any auto store. the adapters that I got for my 9" conversion work on either 9" or 10" by just flipping them side to side. if you have the large bolt patern already drilled in the hubs then you have the hard part done already:D now all you need is the adapter and stuff.


I just redid a friends 65 Plymouth satellite that had wildwood on it with some bad rotors and calipers.($$$$ to replace) we slapped the scarebird conversion on and they stop even better (got rid of the wildwood 1 + inch big bore master really helped too!) went to a 15/16 bore master and now the old guy can actually stop the car without standing on it as hard as he could, it has more travel but better braking feel.
Click to expand...
 
What really matters is which spindle you have. 10" spindles are fairly symmetric, so hard to tell which is L & R. 9" spindles have a goose-neck that comes off one side (fwd or aft, I forgot). It is true that 9" spindles/hubs use smaller bearings. The outer bearing in my 69 Dart failed, on both sides. I don't know that 10" spindles are simple to find, but many upgrade to 73+ parts, so should at least be cheap.
 
BillGrissom said:
What really matters is which spindle you have. 10" spindles are fairly symmetric, so hard to tell which is L & R. 9" spindles have a goose-neck that comes off one side (fwd or aft, I forgot). It is true that 9" spindles/hubs use smaller bearings. The outer bearing in my 69 Dart failed, on both sides. I don't know that 10" spindles are simple to find, but many upgrade to 73+ parts, so should at least be cheap.
Click to expand...

Would this work?

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=251089
 
waggin said:
as seen in one of his other posts he has a problem with the tires hitting the headers on tight turns is why I suggested the fmj disc brake spindles. Can he get the willwood stuff to fit them? that would give him more tire clearance in tight turns???
Click to expand...
AHhhh crap I read that and it didn't sink in:banghead:. sign of old age startin in.
yup FMJ spindles 'll do it. moves em bout an inch or so won't they?
 
Kmrumedy said:
Would this work?

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=251089
Click to expand...

No. Those are big-bolt pattern, 73+ cars. They would not work with the Wilwood kit you are considering. Maybe they have another kit for those. I thought your main question was "what spindles do I have?". I have early-A's with both 9" & 10" drums, and have removed and painted the spindles on both, so I could answer your question, but your photo was too dark to tell.
 
you will need upper control arms , lower balljoints for a disk brake car also, really, just look for the complete 73 and later setup, when your done you wont need the willwoods just sayin...the factory setup has plenty of braking power for that light Little car. more isn't alway's better unless its in the engine department.......you can never have too much engine me thinks ;)
Kmrumedy said:
Would this work?

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=251089
Click to expand...
 
BillGrissom said:
No. Those are big-bolt pattern, 73+ cars. They would not work with the Wilwood kit you are considering. Maybe they have another kit for those. I thought your main question was "what spindles do I have?". I have early-A's with both 9" & 10" drums, and have removed and painted the spindles on both, so I could answer your question, but your photo was too dark to tell.
Click to expand...

Ah. Got it now a Bill thank you.
 
waggin said:
you will need upper control arms , lower balljoints for a disk brake car also, really, just look for the complete 73 and later setup, when your done you wont need the willwoods just sayin...the factory setup has plenty of braking power for that light Little car. more isn't alway's better unless its in the engine department.......you can never have too much engine me thinks ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks Waggin. My friend who is helping me with the car suggested Scarebird as an easy solution as the drums are already drilled. I think someone else also mentioned Scarebird on my restoration thread but I did know what they were talking about. My buddy sent me this link.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=247115

Would this be a better solution in your opinion to Wilwood? In all honesty I choose Wilwood as some here liked them and I like the looks of the red calipers. Could I just find some second hand Wilwood calipers and use this solution?

Looks like a $300-$400 solution verses $1000 for Wilwoods.
 
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