Help with running issue?

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cam.man67

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Stumped on this one guys. Over the last 1000 miles I've adjusted the valve lash rebuilt the distributor, and have been working on idle adjustment for easy startup. No biggie right? I had actually gotten the car running great aside from a small and random miss at idle.

But then yesterday happened. I decided to check the timing because I had forgotten my light when I put the distributor back in. Wound up being around 2 deg tdc, so I bavked it up first to 5, then 12 where the car seems to run best for me. Adjusted the idle screws on the holley 390, and got idle vacuum to about 21. Car is idling very good.

Then not. I take it out on the road and its cutting out all over the place. In addition to a severe random miss, it suddenly sounds and feels like I'm idling without one cylinder. Power doesn't seem to be off when I accelerate, but the motor doesn't feel nearly as smooth. The random mis I have deduced is a worn points issue. But the rough idle? I've got nothing. Can you help me?
 
I'll type this again... Our first 67 notch 225 slant. I tried everything you have and then some. Could not get a constant good idle/run from it. How well it ran seemed to change with the weather. Finally found the dist', either housing or bushings in it just worn out. Point dwell all over the place. A reman'd dist' was like dipping the car in the fountain of youth. Sad part was I had already purchased points, condenser, etc.., where the reman'd included all that.
If the fault turns out to be fuel perk related, slantsixdan can help with fuel line to carb rerouting and fittings req'd.
 
I had the same problem with my first Dart also. The cam lobe that the fuel pump ran on was wearing out.
Did you check the vacuum? Should be around 16 - 20 at proper idle. Watch that needle when it misses. How many increments does it drop when it misses?
Compression check, valve lash when warmed up, read the plugs.
 
I was going to ask if it had electronic conversion or points. I think Red Fish hit the nail on the head.
 
But then yesterday happened. I decided to check the timing because I had forgotten my light when I put the distributor back in. Wound up being around 2 deg tdc, so I bavked it up first to 5, then 12 where the car seems to run best for me. Adjusted the idle screws on the holley 390, and got idle vacuum to about 21. Car is idling very good.

You'd best check your total timing now. You changed your base timing 10 degrees. So you also changed your total timing 10 degrees. Add vacuum advance to that..
 
Thanks for the responses, guys! I am pretty sure the issue is not fuel related, as the car runs fine above idle. Like, if I didn't have to sit in traffic much, I don't know that I'd be worried about fixing it immediately.

As far as distributor health goes, it's has fresh bushings and the dwell isn't moving around at all. Timing is very steady, and idle vacuum is right at 21. I honestly am starting to wonder if it's a valve lash issue. These rockers have been known to close up in their own before....I wonder if they've loosened up on their own too?
 
It got worse with the timing advanced right?

Let me be sure;
1)The points are gapped and clean.
2)The timing and dwell are more or less rock steady, both at idle and when slowly building revs, up to at least 3500 in park/neutral.
3)The valves have been recently lashed.
4)It idles at 21inches.
5)The problem only occurs while driving,
6)It idles nice at 12*Before tdc,But then it seems like the ignition is breaking up, when under load.
7)It idles poorly at 2* BTDC, but runs fine under load.
8)It seems to be dropping 1 cylinder, when timed at 12*BTDC.
Does that about sum it up?
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Here's what I think. I think the engine got into detonation and cracked one or more sparkplug insulators.
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Before you do anything check the cap over for carbon tracks and cracks and that all the wires are fully plugged in and on, and that the wires are not shorting or crossfiring. This is best done in the dark(engine running). Also do a coil spark check. You CAN do this with a point type system. Simply pull the coil wire out of the dizzy and support it with an insulated whatever in such a manner that the spark will have to jump a gap of 1/2 to 3/8 inch to reach the engine block(ground). Then have a helper crank it. This works best with the plugs out, and in the dark.You can combine this test with the plug change. You are looking for a nice steady stream of sparks that sounds like a mini-welder.If the coil can do this ,the entire primary side is working, and the coil is most likely ok.I would put it out of mind for now.

Now this first question is extremely important; reread questions 6 and 7. Are they both absolutely true? If 6 and 7 are absolutely true, the engine may be experiencing way too much power timing.Go back to post #5. Don't miss the part about the vacuum advance can adding it's load.
2) If the problem can be traced to too much advance; Firstly, re-prove the Dwell is stable to at least 3500 rpm and that you used the correct 6 cylinder scale.Then,the next 2 question are; Is it worse at part throttle than at full throttle? and is it worse as rpm goes up? If yes and yes. Simply, put the timing back to 5*BTDC and defeat the vacuum advance can,then retest. If this brings things back into line, advance the dizzy 2 or 3 degrees and retest, still without the Vcan. Repeat until you have problems or the power timing gets up to 36* or so, at somewhere between 3000 or 4000. If it runs fine with power timing limited thus, you will need to modify the dizzy to make the 12* at idle and to also limit the powertiming.
But if it just gets worse and worse, even with the Vcan disconnected, and the dwell set right(don't even think about lash just yet), Then we have a problem. Either we have a valve spring issue or we have a cracked insulator on one or more sparkplugs, or the rotor has gone out of phase with the cap.
On a slanty, the easiest to check are the insulators. If the engine was run loaded under detonation, theres a good chance of this so pull them all out and look them over. Broken insulators are obvious, but cracked ones, especially cracked new ones can be very hard to see, especially as one gets older So dig out a bright lite, and a magnifying glass.If you can't find any cracks, I highly recommend that you replace them all, so we don't chase out tails around forever. If this cures the problem, with the timing back to 5*, you can put the old ones back in 2 by 2, until you find the bad ones.
But if new plugs doesn't cure it,the next easiest is rotor-phasing, so, lets get into the dizzy. Do you know how to check rotor phasing? This has to be proven now.
And finally, if the Dwell is correct and stable, the plugs are new, and the rotor is correctly phased,Then I would pull the valve cover, and check every spring for seat pressure. I would put #1 cylinder at TDC compression, and grab the springs(one at a time of course), and attempt to spin them around the valvestem.It should be quite difficult. Then rotate the crank exactly 1/3 of a turn and try the next one in the firing order. And so on until all six cylinders have been checked. Some slanty dampeners are marked at 120*. If yours is not, you will have to use the thumb in the hole trick. I cannot think past this point cuz going back to questions 6 and 7, this sequence should reveal the culprit(s).

But if I misunderstood and questions 6 and 7 are NOT both absolutely true, but in fact the engine breaks up either way, then go straight to the plug check, and if you have to, the valve spring check.
But in any case, the power timing has to be limited.
Once the problem has been solved, hook the Vcan back up and retest.

If absolutely everything is fine but the problem persists, it's time for a leakdown test.Now, personally I would have done this test, right after the spark test, and just before the new plugs went in. And if you've read this far, and have the tester, so should you.
Good luck,eh
 
vacuum at 21 makes me wonder if its just too lean at idle. Adjust for lean best idle. Maximum possible vacuum might be leanest but not best idle. Todays fuel isn't equal to yesterdays gasoline. It doesn't burn as well in the older carbureted engines. Slant 6 intake has always ran center cylinders richer and end cylinders leaner too.
 
In addition to all extensively written up ignition and distributor checks above, check the cold resistance of the ballast; disconnect one end and measure the resistance cold; it should and needs to be < 1 ohm, and was around 0.6 ohms originally. A high ballast resistance will lower the spark energy by a factor of 1/2 to 3/4 or greater. The mopar ballast is a particular one, and all sorts of wrong ones get substituted. This effects both the points and electronic systems.

You asked about valve lash opening up; is this happening? If so, mark the adjusters at 12 o'clock with a permanent ink marker and then drive it and see if they move. If so, they are either:
1) some are loose in the rockers, and the rockers in question need to be moved and the ends closed just a hair to hold the adjusters tight
2) you have tons of varnish on the cam lobes, and the varnish is wearing down as you run it with the lash tightened up and opening up the clearance; this can happen if the lash was never adjusted and the car not run much, and crummy oil was used and not changed much
 
Woops, sorry I'm just getting back on this! So...carb adjustment it was. Had it running to lean at idle, plus I had a thrittle linkage issue that caused it to bind periodically. So that's all! Valve lash checked out ok. Thanks for the help, guys!
 
I think you found something else but Im 1800 miles away. You had the carb so lean that it was missing under load? Id check the advance plate in the dizzy, make sure its snappy and returns smoothly, use a mighty vac or 'your' might vac and pull the advance open and let it close while watching it. I had a bad plate on a 340 and that thing drove me up the wall trying to figure it out. It was altering the pickup distance and giving me random misses and no start situations. Like other guy said, new distributor was like the fountain of youth. VROOM!
 
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