High Performance 318ci

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Miszny

Miszny

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Hi

Buddy of mine bought 69 Coronet Wagon some time ago. While he is restoring the body and interior he asked me to think about the 318ci thats in the car now.

Engine is supposed to be freshly rebuilt, looks very fresh but is standars spec.
Plan is to add some power with bolt on parts, or build it again with new forged pistons and some nice rods.

My initial idea was to get:
- TrickFlow 190 heads (with thin gasket target is 10:1 compression for pump gas)
- Edelbrock Air Gap intake
- Howards 710862-08 (238/238 @.050 558/558 lift) solid flat tappet cam
- 1,6 roller rockers to take advantage of high flowing heads better
- 750 or 850 Double Pumper with electric choke
- MSD 6AL2 + MSD distributor


I think this should be good for over 400hp. Not planning something crazy, just fun engine with some power and very good streetability.

Its an automatic car, transmission is almost stock, probably will need 2500 stall converter for the cam.
Do you have any better ideas? Suggestions?
 
Looks like an "RPM" build. That wagon is heavy, it will want a lot of bottom end grunt. It will want a lot of converter and gear, or..... a lot more stroke.
 
Miszny said:
Hi

Buddy of mine bought 69 Coronet Wagon some time ago. While he is restoring the body and interior he asked me to think about the 318ci thats in the car now.

Engine is supposed to be freshly rebuilt, looks very fresh but is standars spec.
Plan is to add some power with bolt on parts, or build it again with new forged pistons and some nice rods.

My initial idea was to get:
- TrickFlow 190 heads (with thin gasket target is 10:1 compression for pump gas)
- Edelbrock Air Gap intake
- Howards 710862-08 (238/238 @.050 558/558 lift) solid flat tappet cam
- 1,6 roller rockers to take advantage of high flowing heads better
- 750 or 850 Double Pumper with electric choke
- MSD 6AL2 + MSD distributor


I think this should be good for over 400hp. Not planning something crazy, just fun engine with some power and very good streetability.

Its an automatic car, transmission is almost stock, probably will need 2500 stall converter for the cam.
Do you have any better ideas? Suggestions?
Click to expand...
Before anyone else says it, it is too much carb, cam, and heads for a stock 318 bottom end.
Even if you upped the compression to 10:1, it would still be too much for the car it is in.
Those cars are heavy (at least 4,000 pounds), and to get it to move and be a nice streeter, it would take an engine built for torque and bottom end power.
The engine you want to build is more of a 5,000 to 7,000 R.P.M. engine with little bottom end and torque.
And it's a relatively low displacement engine for the weight of the car.
And it would not be a fun cruiser at all.
It would actually be a big PITA to drive, maintain, and live with.
It sure would sound good though..........
It would be also be a complete dog off the line until it started revving up, and that would take quite awhile given the car's weight.

My suggestion is to build a mild big block (440) for it and you will reach your 400 H.P. goal quite easily.
You could even get 500 H.P. out of a fairly mild 440 if the parts are chosen right for the combination.
The car would be a lot more fun to drive, have gobs of low end torque, and be a lot easier to maintain.
All for about the same money in the long run.
And to top it all off, it would get better gas mileage to boot..........
 
That’s a whole lotta meat wagon for the little engine.
Personally, I’d advise against it and even more so with a 318.
 
stroke it. torque loves stroke. RV cam, 3.73 gears. Where is Warsaw?
 
Let the guy build a 318. The 318 can be built easily to produce a respectable street cruiser.
Most of these guys advocating strokers on the street would be whooped by a lowly new GT Mustang or Camaro and a rice grinder or two. lol
 
I'm not saying a stroker is a bad thing, but it is not needed in most cases for a street car.
 
A 69 Coronet Wagon weighs how much now?
 
318 in a tank needs some help. RV cam it or build it for high RPM with a tall rear and a loose convertor. Your stuck with the weight and the CID so you'll have to build around those. Make a plan and stick to it, dont stray and get something thats not in the master plan as its a system. you can make it work, youll just have to do a little research.
 
fishmens67 said:
Let the guy build a 318. The 318 can be built easily to produce a respectable street cruiser.
Most of these guys advocating strokers on the street would be whooped by a lowly new GT Mustang or Camaro and a rice grinder or two. lol
Click to expand...

Not like the OP is planning..........a high rev little engine in a lead sled. He WILL be disappoointed
 
Guys, firtst of all, plan is to build a small block and keep it 318ci to make things more difficult ;-) So no big blocks. The owner of the car wants 318ci.
Too many changes to the drivetrain to put big block in it and also zero big blocks for reasonable money where we are located.
I am surprised that so many people are against 318, buddy of mine is constantly wining autocross events in his Challenger with 318 (roller cam, ported iron heads and 410hp). Challenger is not feather light either.

For the wagon I was thinking to get very good heads but stay with flat tappet cam, get some compression, put rather small cam that has lift to take advantage of these heads flow etc... Operating range of this cam is 2500-6200 rpm.
Regarding too much carb, well given the power goal, I would never say that 750cfm is too much. Six pack on 340 is what? 1250cfm...? Also less power.

So really you all say that 318 is a lost cause? I was hoping for more positive approach.
 
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67Dart273 said:
Not like the OP is planning..........a high rev little engine in a lead sled. He WILL be disappoointed
Click to expand...
OK then, now you did it I'd skip the lame 360 or stroked small block and move up to 440 or stroked to 512.
If he's going to need power let's make some real power with real axle twisting torque
In case you didn't know I'm not to fond of small blocks. They always need a kick in the butt to make REAL power. lol
 
fishmens67 said:
OK then, now you did it I'd skip the lame 360 or stroked small block and move up to 440 or stroked to 512.
If he's going to need power let's make some real power with real axle twisting torque
In case you didn't know I'm not to fond of small blocks. They always need a kick in the butt to make REAL power. lol
Click to expand...
Well, not long ago I put good heads, cam, intake, carb and exhaust on stock 72 low compression 340ci. Its in 3 speed manual Dodge Demon. This thing now eats 5.0 Mustangs all day long and I also raced my buddys 94 Viper with 3.55 rear and full exhaust done. We were head to head till 100mph on 14" stock rally rimms with 225 tires. Was stock 240hp car before, full stock bottom end, about 9,8:1 compression now.
The wagon owner is not looking to build a race car, he has John Aruzza built 511 hemi in his 68 Charger. He just wants more power out of stock 318 in his wagon...
 
Most of these guys advocating strokers on the street would be whooped by a lowly new GT Mustang or Camaro and a rice grinder or two. lol
Click to expand...

Lowly.. those cars are pretty kick would kick the piss out of any "stock" vehicle form the '70's..(meaning the stang' or camaro..
 
fishmens67 said:
I'm not saying a stroker is a bad thing, but it is not needed in most cases for a street car.
Click to expand...

I agree if your putting money into a stroker hope your having fun beating on it at the track..not putting around on the street!!
 
Miszny said:
Guys, firtst of all, plan is to build a small block and keep it 318ci to make things more difficult ;-) So no big blocks. The owner of the car wants 318ci.
Too many changes to the drivetrain to put big block in it and also zero big blocks for reasonable money where we are located.
I am surprised that so many people are against 318, buddy of mine is constantly wining autocross events in his Challenger with 318 (roller cam, ported iron heads and 410hp). Challenger is not feather light either.

For the wagon I was thinking to get very good heads but stay with flat tappet cam, get some compression, put rather small cam that has lift to take advantage of these heads flow etc... Operating range of this cam is 2500-6200 rpm.
Regarding too much carb, well given the power goal, I would never say that 750cfm is too much. Six pack on 340 is what? 1250cfm...? Also less power.

So really you all say that 318 is a lost cause? I was hoping for more positive approach.
Click to expand...

318 is NOT a lost cause. I love them. Many love them. Many had made them fast. But when somebody wants to move a lead-sled, the 318 isn't the first engine of recommendation.
 
Miszny said:
Hi

Buddy of mine bought 69 Coronet Wagon some time ago. While he is restoring the body and interior he asked me to think about the 318ci thats in the car now.

Engine is supposed to be freshly rebuilt, looks very fresh but is standars spec.
Plan is to add some power with bolt on parts, or build it again with new forged pistons and some nice rods.

My initial idea was to get:
- TrickFlow 190 heads (with thin gasket target is 10:1 compression for pump gas)
- Edelbrock Air Gap intake
- Howards 710862-08 (238/238 @.050 558/558 lift) solid flat tappet cam
- 1,6 roller rockers to take advantage of high flowing heads better
- 750 or 850 Double Pumper with electric choke
- MSD 6AL2 + MSD distributor


I think this should be good for over 400hp. Not planning something crazy, just fun engine with some power and very good streetability.

Its an automatic car, transmission is almost stock, probably will need 2500 stall converter for the cam.
Do you have any better ideas? Suggestions?
Click to expand...

This combination would be much less horrible with a stroker kit, be it in a 318 or 360. By combination, I mean the entire car.
  1. The only fuel he's gonna get at low rpms is gonna be from the accelerators. So that's gonna suck ***...
  2. Big cam, 1.6 rockers, small displacement stock stroke LA engine, heavy car, 2500 stall converter. I take the suck *** comment back, it's gonna suck woolly mammoth balls!
  3. Trick flow heads on this is unnecessary $
  4. Ignition system on this is unnecessary $
  5. Why not go with a tunnel ram at this point? The dumb that is this combo can't get much worse.
It looks like your friend is throwing money at this grocery getter for bragging rights. He's building towards a high rpm/hp engine for a vehicle that needs torque. It won't be able to get out of it's own way. What kinda gearing is he gonna have? I hope he has better than a 7.25 pegleg... What's the coefficient of drag on a '68 Coronet wagon? He isn't gonna hit hellcat speeds on the Nurburgring... He isn't even gonna hit Toyota Camry speeds without serious suspension work.

If he doesn't want to spend the $ on a 440, or even an old commercial 413 truck engine for this, then he sure as hell won't build the suspension to make this 52 year old car safe to stop and handle well.

 
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