Hot ammeter

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Mikes270dart

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Just bought a 1971 Duster, 340 4spd. While driving it home noticed the lens on the ammeter was discolored. I touched it, extremely hot and soft. could not see what the gauge was reading. Do you think it is simple as a gauge with huge resistance or something else I should look at.
Thanks
 
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In the meantime, unhook the battery, get up under the dash and unbolt the large black and large red wires from the ammeter, and bolt them together with a screw and nut and tape off safely. The black IS NOT ground. The red comes fromt he battery, the black feeds off to loads, and goes back through the bulkhead to the alternator output stud
 
You best figure out why it is hot. Pull the cluster. I'll put money on the wires coming into the gauge are cooked.

But, according to some fans of ammeters, they never have issues. It is 50 years old, so it may have never been touched since new.
 
Do you think it is simple as a gauge with huge resistance or something else I should look at.
Its either huge resistance, or huge current;
or at this point both.
One high current situation with is recharging the battery when the alternator is generating power above 15 Volts. Another is using the driving to recharge a very low battery
A high current situation from the battery is a short to ground.

Since its badly damaged, there really is no choice. it needs to be removed. Whether you replace it or rewire the system for a voltmeter is up to you.
I would not rewire it as MAD recommends.
 
Since the car is new to you, examine the entire wiring.
Note any modifications, splices, repairs.
Examine in particular
- the battery feed to the bulkhead and look on the inside too at the matching cavity.
- the alternator output line to the bulkhead and look on the inside too at the matching cavity.
- steering column connector to the ignition switch.

If there were high currents now or in the past, these are places where most likely to find damage.


1680655971477.png
 
I would not rewire it as MAD recommends.
So I should not do the bypass of the bulk head connectors? Hopefully have time this weekend to check the wiring. Thanks to everyone for your input.
 
So I should not do the bypass of the bulk head connectors? Hopefully have time this weekend to check the wiring. Thanks to everyone for your input.
How much you do depends on what you find and what you want to do. Some of these standard instrument panels house their amp gauge and the headlight switch where water leaks from wiper pivot and windshield gasket can get to them. If you find a rusty water damaged amp gauge and/or some overheated wire casing there, I won't be surprised.
Replacing the amp gauge with a aftermarket volts gauge is easier in the rally panels but it has been done in standard panels with a little more effort.
Some owners simply seek a good amp gauge for their application. I've sold the last I had to a member here.
Beware of ebay listings for NOS amp gauges. If it don't look exactly like yours and the application says through 76 model, it may fit only the last few models. I forget what year they changed.
 
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So I should not do the bypass of the bulk head connectors? Hopefully have time this weekend to check the wiring. Thanks to everyone for your input.
Many guys here advocate installing a new bypass wire of large size, FUSED direct from alternator stud to battery. This is fine AS FAR AS IT GOES but you STILL NEED to make CERTAIN that the ammeter wires are connected AND THAT the ammeter wire terminals have not been burnt IE maybe cut them off and remake if they show damage,

AND!!!!..........Pull the bulkhead connector apart, inspect, and replace / repair as necessary, because the ammeter wires now act as the supply line for all the circuits which originate inside the passenger compartment
 
Just bought a 1971 Duster, 340 4spd. While driving it home noticed the lens on the ammeter was discolored. I touched it, extremely hot and soft. could not see what the gauge was reading. Do you think it is simple as a gauge with huge resistance or something else I should look at.
Thanks
Chances are, the gauge studs are loose in the buss bar, or, the wire connections on those studs are loose and/or corroded. If you have a high output alternator and lots of power draw (like a high powered sound system), that can do it too.
 
So I should not do the bypass of the bulk head connectors? Hopefully have time this weekend to check the wiring. Thanks to everyone for your input.
My biggest critisism of MAD's recommendations is how they reroute and join the alternator output to the battery feed.
They create a longer path with more connections; And power to run the car has to go through two fusible links.
Second, its a new car to you and us. We have no idea what a previous owner did to the wiring.

A. Find the likely source or sources of the problem.
* Some cars do seem to have had failures that may be due to their ammeter studs becoming loose in the connecting bar. More are damaged when subject to higher loads than the meter or its connections can tolerate for more than brief periods of time. Depending on the model, the nuts holding the ring terminals may get loose, the studs press fit may get loose, etc. They are not all the same. My guess is that Redfish's observations about the leaks on some models/years contributes to a significant portion of electrical problems behind the dash.
* Examine the wiring to find any other locations that show signs of heat damage.
* Examine the wiring for modification. Did they add or splice anything in??
With that you will know much more about the failure, what got damaged and why.

B. Decide on a repair plan that addresses all of the damage and addresses the causes.
 
Lets say you find extra wires added at the battery positive or the starter relay junction.
1680958417024.png


Maybe there's electric fans, or fuel pump, or???
That would be a completely different situation than a factory setup. In the factory setup, current only goes through the ammeter during start, and to recharge the battery. (This is what MAD gets wrong in their explanation. They say all of the car's electricity flows through the ammeter. That's not true.)
You would either want to get rid of that accessory, or use a different approach to powering it.

Or maybe that's not what you find, but you find the green field wire is pinched against against some sheet metal so its grounded.
1680959105344.png


That would mean the field is constantly powered and so voltage was increasing with rpm. This would cause the battery to overcharge and the operator ignored the ammeter.

These are just two examples of what might be found.
Different situations require different solutions. Further a solution that might work for me, might not work for you. I might ditch the aftermarket mods and go factory. Another person loves the modification - lets say its an EFI system - and rewires to handle that system.

For example on my own car, I've added headlight relays at the alternator, and a parallel wire feed from the alternator to the ammeter. This second feed wire also serves as a junction for the MSD 6T. I did the first because the headlights draw more current than the originals. The second because I wanted the MSD to get power more directly from the alternator, and because the alternator output junction at the bulkhead got somewhat overheated when I was forced to recharge a low battery using the alternator.
 
Here is what I found. Had to cut the wires. Checked the harness and connections everything looks stock and clean.

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Your wiring and associated connections are over 50 years old! Start planning to replace it all! JMO!
 
That's where we differ. I've seen original last better than copies, and I've seen original worse than some hacks. Engine compartment takes a lot of abuse. Interior can be fine, or not. Leaks behind the instrument panel can cause problems - might be what we see there. Hacks, replacement headlights, poorly done stereos all can cause one or more problem spots.

What we see in the photo is rusty stud and damaged and overheated wires. The question is why? I've listed the typical causes for that type of damage. Find the cause.
 
RE: First identify and fix the problem.
One common problem on especially in 70s models is a leak: Redfish (who worked at Chrysler dealerships) has mentioned that here
[Found!] - Ammeter Gauage for 74 Duster
and here
Electrical gremlin

If the ammeter's studs are loose from the connecting plate - that creates a poor connection.

A lot of people think the ammeter causes the problem. Sometimes they do, but often they are the victim. When there is excessive current in the battery feed line the connectors got hot, very hot. Again if the studs get loose from the plate, it results in a poor connection, and more heat.

In this case, IF those are the only overheated connectors, then maybe the cause was a leak and or damaged connectors. IF other connectors showing overheating will be the clues in tracking down the source of the problem. Look along the circuit at the other terminals and the wire at the crimps in addition to the condition of the insulation and plastic connector housing.
Some melted wire connectors shown here, including a ammeter connection which we know exactly why that happened.
 
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...according to some fans of ammeters, they never have issues. It is 50 years old, so it may have never been touched since new.
Still not getting it, I see. It’s the 50-year-old-never been touched since new, ammeters that tend not to experience ammeter connection resistance/heat issues. Those connections/insulators are also most likely to not have been abused or having to deal with the extra current relating add-on loads at the battery, placing these connections, and all other related charge system connections, well outside of their design limits.
 
Just bought a 1971 Duster, 340 4spd. While driving it home noticed the lens on the ammeter was discolored. I touched it, extremely hot and soft. could not see what the gauge was reading. Do you think it is simple as a gauge with huge resistance or something else I should look at.
Thanks
I've had a "similar" problem
My original Ammeter was loose and didn't work properly, so it became hot and the wire terminals started to melt.
It ended with a failed ammeter and voltage regulator and an overcharged battery with 18V.

Pull the cluster and check for some damage on the wires. Then check the screws that are holding the ammeter. Also check your bulkhead connector.
 
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