hughes 1.65 shaft roller rockers for magnum heads....

[POS Dakota]

I decided to open the box and check them out.
Man are they nice!!!! =P~ I'm impressed.

If you have a magnum headed motor and the stud rockers got you down with all the flex and guideplate doo doo, you should really check these out.

They are basically an intake and exhaust rocker joined by a common shaft that bolts to the magnum stud bosses with 2 pedestals per "unit" that has a saddle on top and a wide base at the bottom. The shaft is secured through the pedestal into the boss of the head with an allen capscrew that postitively locates everything and creates and extremely solid system.
Very high quality and very nice.

I posted this because I am assuming there aren't a lot of these out there. I havent seen any pics other than the hughes site and I am sure there are others with curiosity. I searched around and didnt see anyone having them.
Thought I would share.

I attached some pics so you could see what your 590 bucks shipped gets you. Yeah, they cost twice as much as a set of good chevy stud rockers. About the same as a set of racer browns with pushrods which are the only comparable setup I know of. But they are definitely high quality, and I have no reservations. They will withstand more punishment than a single studmount chevy rocker with greater accuracy and stability I am sure.

Anyone know who makes these rockers? They remind me of TD rockers. I posted a pic of the pushrod part# too. Anyone recognize that? They look like nice pushrods. They are ball/ball oil-through for a hyd roller setup and are 7.45 inch. Black oxide coated and no different than any comp pushrod I have seen...

If you are leary of using a magnum head because the rockers are less stable than the LA shaft system, these put things on a pretty much even playing field.

 

[mopardude318]

Yep, hughes rockers are very good. I have a set of shaft mount LA style on my 408..

 

[Mad Dart]

chittttt..... Those look really nice!

Your pictures look better than the ones Hughes has on there site!

 

[ocdart]

Thanks for the pics! I'd already decided this is the route I'm going with my Magnum crate motor. I just don't like the chevy-style single bolt mount compared to the stability of a shaft-mount system.

 

[POS Dakota]

chittttt..... Those look really nice!

Your pictures look better than the ones Hughes has on there site!

I really try hard to post decent pics of things. One of the things that gets me when I go to a vendor website is they never focus on the visuals. People want to see things before they buy them. Pictures tell a thousand words.

I remember you mentioning how you liked them. Aren't you using magnum RHS heads on your 402? Nuff said! You know what to do!:toothy10:

 

[POS Dakota]

Thanks for the pics! I'd already decided this is the route I'm going with my Magnum crate motor. I just don't like the chevy-style single bolt mount compared to the stability of a shaft-mount system.

No problem.

These are very solid and will give you some additional rev capability and more lift without all the deflection from the skinny studs on the cheap chevy stud rockers.

I have broken comp rocker studs before on mag engines and it was not cool. These have me convinced that the days of broken valvetrain parts are over. No guideplates needed either since they have no side to side movement. I hate guideplates. Never liked the idea of them. They're a bandage for a crappy rocker design.

I figured more people would try these if I posted some better pics of what they are about. It's hard to cough up the money when you cant see them.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

POS, your heads will ship Monday. I just got them today. With a dyno test tomorrow, just don't have time to get them out until Monday.
Brian

 

[70aarcuda]

any chance that these will fit the Eddy magnum heads?

 

[POS Dakota]

POS, your heads will ship Monday. I just got them today. With a dyno test tomorrow, just don't have time to get them out until Monday.
Brian

Not a problem. I wasnt expecting this short of a timetable to begin with.
Do your thang!

 

[POS Dakota]

any chance that these will fit the Eddy magnum heads?

No, the studs on an eddy head are larger diameter I do believe.
And truth be told with the larger stud you dont have as much of a stability issue as those with the smaller diameter.

 

[needsaresto]

Such a simple idea. Why didnt Dodge do it? I guess cheaper is better in mass production...

 

[POS Dakota]

So does anyone have an idea what brand those pushrods may be?
What does the MT prefix mean? I'd ask hughes but they'll probably just tell me they are "hughes pushrods" lmao.

I'm just curious who makes them. Hell I am curious who really makes the rockers too!

 

[Brian Hafliger]

So does anyone have an idea what brand those pushrods may be?
What does the MT prefix mean? I'd ask hughes but they'll probably just tell me they are "hughes pushrods" lmao.

I'm just curious who makes them. Hell I am curious who really makes the rockers too!

All of Hughes pushrod stuff is Smith Bros. That came from Dave himself...rockers I have no idea...

 

[POS Dakota]

Ahhh....I forgot all about Smith Bros.
That's good to know.

 

[Frost1]

No problem.

These are very solid and will give you some additional rev capability and more lift without all the deflection from the skinny studs on the cheap chevy stud rockers.

I have broken comp rocker studs before on mag engines and it was not cool. These have me convinced that the days of broken valvetrain parts are over. No guideplates needed either since they have no side to side movement. I hate guideplates. Never liked the idea of them. They're a bandage for a crappy rocker design.

I figured more people would try these if I posted some better pics of what they are about. It's hard to cough up the money when you cant see them.

POS Dakota

Could you get some of those good pics on the installation of those rockers?
I been wanting to get a set of rockers for a new project but did not like what I have been seeing from different manufactures.

 

[Mad Dart]

POS,

Are you running a Solid Roller in this one with Heavy Spring Loads?? If you are you may want to look into thicker wall push rods dont know if .080 wall is gonna do the trick. I didn't run a roller but I still had Manton make some 3/8 rod, .095 wall with hardended 5/16 tips which are Real Nice pieces. You can also go thicker if you want to. They fit in the RHS Heads without touching a thing.

 

[POS Dakota]

I should have a brand new set of RHS mag heads here soon. When I have those I'll take some shots of them with the rockers installed. I'm interested in seeing that myself. This is really going to be a cool engine. Very happy with the choices I made so far...

Glad everyone likes the pics...believe it or not, those were taken with a blackberry storm under an LED desk lamp. lol I've found that one of the biggest factors in taking a good picture is the lighting source used and not even a 1000 dollar camera can do what a good LED lamp can for some odd reason. I use that, and for bigger items, I have a 150 watt 12,000 kelvin metal halide lamp. Same color light as the LED lamp, only way more intense.

Look out hollywood, here I come. And I'm bringing my lamp and a blackberry with me...pffft.

 

[POS Dakota]

POS,

Are you running a Solid Roller in this one?? If you are you may want to look into thicker wall push rods dont know if .080 wall is gonna do the trick. I didn't run a roller but I still had Manton make some 3/8 rod, .095 wall with hardended 5/16 tips which are Real Nice pieces. You can also go thicker if you want to. They fit in the RHS Heads without touching a thing.

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Nope, I'm running a hydraulic roller, but those are indeed the sexiest pushrods known to mankind. It's parts like that, that make you wish you had little windows in the motor to see them in action.

I've been bitten twice with flattened lobes on solids. I guess this happens to the best of us, but in this motor I am going back into a comfort zone. lol

In my 426, I am going to run a solid roller...and then I will be calling manton.
They just scream..."break me? PFFFFSHEAT!":-D

 

[POS Dakota]

Alright so I got my RHS/Indy heads this afternoon and they're badass. I am very pleased.

They look like a solid head to make good power with. You just dont notice things in pictures. You have to see close up. The ports are really nice without being touched. Pretty smooth and NO casting flash whatsoever. I'm going to leave them as Brian sent them, and go with it. I have no reason to believe they won't do the job after what I've seen. Good work Brian.

The chambers are really nice....

Not that you need any closer, but screw it...

I promised to take some pics with the hughes shaft rockers on them...um, ok. Some nice big pics for ya....partially because people want detail, and patially because I'm not resizing them. lol

and another....

And another....

When I was first looking at the rockers at hughes, one of the things you couldnt see in the pics was how they mounted to the pedestal, what the fit was like etc and that bugged me.
So if the same thing bugs you and if you care, here. Mystery solved....

Now there is a problem...not that it's really a problem because no one screwed up, but rather something I didnt expect due to oversight. I can only gather the installed height changed the rocker geometry a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here.

Why I say this is because I am definitely not getting an optimal roller contact on the valve tip. It's over more on the intake side. I dabbed some grease on the stem tip real quick to show what I mean....you can see the line.

Now "it'll work" since the rocker will move toward the center as soon as theres some lift, but I would think I should be closer to the center and that if I am not I'll wear out the guides. I guess the cure for this is to raise the rockers with a shim. I think from playing around, I figured about maybe 2.5-3 millimeters additional height can cure this. If I raise them that much higher I get a contact that is correct at just shy of center, and moving out acrossthe same amount during the sweep. I just wanted to throw that out as news you can use, and also to hear what people think of it?

I have some comp guideplates I can modify to chop off the guides that I think are in that thickness ballpark and would work pretty well for that purpose if need be. But I'm open to ideas. I want those pedestals to sit flush and solid just as they normally do. Opinions on that?

Brian, do you have experience in this situation in a mag head? Or am I the first oddball to want them instead of the LA with these rockers on them? lol

I know the LA heads frequently need the shafts shimmed up too, but I was blindsided by this. Didnt even think about it.

Is it really as much of a big deal as I am making it?

 

[mopardude318]

I can't help answer your questions as I don't know. But I thank you for posting the pictures...

 

[Mad Dart]

POS,

Don at FBO uses a pedestal stand, I dont know if this will work but worth a look at it............... Scroll down on the link and you will see the set up. I think he sells the pedestal shim by itself.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/FBO_EQ Cylinder heads.htm

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Alright so I got my RHS/Indy heads this afternoon and they're badass. I am very pleased.

They look like a solid head to make good power with. You just dont notice things in pictures. You have to see close up. The ports are really nice without being touched. Pretty smooth and NO casting flash whatsoever. I'm going to leave them as Brian sent them, and go with it. I have no reason to believe they won't do the job after what I've seen. Good work Brian.

The chambers are really nice....

Not that you need any closer, but screw it...

I promised to take some pics with the hughes shaft rockers on them...um, ok. Some nice big pics for ya....partially because people want detail, and patially because I'm not resizing them. lol

and another....

And another....

When I was first looking at the rockers at hughes, one of the things you couldnt see in the pics was how they mounted to the pedestal, what the fit was like etc and that bugged me.
So if the same thing bugs you and if you care, here. Mystery solved....

Now there is a problem...not that it's really a problem because no one screwed up, but rather something I didnt expect due to oversight. I can only gather the installed height changed the rocker geometry a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here.

Why I say this is because I am definitely not getting an optimal roller contact on the valve tip. It's over more on the intake side. I dabbed some grease on the stem tip real quick to show what I mean....you can see the line.

Now "it'll work" since the rocker will move toward the center as soon as theres some lift, but I would think I should be closer to the center and that if I am not I'll wear out the guides. I guess the cure for this is to raise the rockers with a shim. I think from playing around, I figured about maybe 2.5-3 millimeters additional height can cure this. If I raise them that much higher I get a contact that is correct at just shy of center, and moving out acrossthe same amount during the sweep. I just wanted to throw that out as news you can use, and also to hear what people think of it?

I have some comp guideplates I can modify to chop off the guides that I think are in that thickness ballpark and would work pretty well for that purpose if need be. But I'm open to ideas. I want those pedestals to sit flush and solid just as they normally do. Opinions on that?

Brian, do you have experience in this situation in a mag head? Or am I the first oddball to want them instead of the LA with these rockers on them? lol

I know the LA heads frequently need the shafts shimmed up too, but I was blindsided by this. Didnt even think about it.

Is it really as much of a big deal as I am making it?

Did the rockers come with shims? That pic is kinda bad, I can't really tell what I'm looking at.
If you have a black marker pen, mark the top of the valve completely with it and then do the sweep. It'll be much easier to see.
The LA are usually smack dap in the middle of the valve. I have not sold any other magnum heads, or used those type of rockers so I don't have any idea but I do know that if the pattern is narrow (.040-.050) even if it's to the outside of the middle it'll be OK. What's bad is a wide (.080 +) pattern even in the middle...

 

[POS Dakota]

Did the rockers come with shims? That pic is kinda bad, I can't really tell what I'm looking at.
If you have a black marker pen, mark the top of the valve completely with it and then do the sweep. It'll be much easier to see.
The LA are usually smack dap in the middle of the valve. I have not sold any other magnum heads, or used those type of rockers so I don't have any idea but I do know that if the pattern is narrow (.040-.050) even if it's to the outside of the middle it'll be OK. What's bad is a wide (.080 +) pattern even in the middle...

Nope no shims were included. You're looking at a pic of the pedestals they come with, and in the pic to the valve tip where the rocker rests with the valve closed.


I'll get a sweep pattern with some marker soon as I get home from work today. What I was trying to show is where the roller rests as a starting point which is on the intake manny side of the valve tip and a little close to the edge. My sharpie markers are always gone...I have an 11 year old.

I'll take care of it later. And no sweat, like I said everything's awesome. I don't think the hughes version of these heads will support the lift yours do. That's the difference. I believe the rockers as designed are mainly intended to go onto a stock head, or one with minimal preparation and not as much of a valve or spring is the deal. But this can be straightened out with a slight height adjustment of the rocker.

More to come.

 

[POS Dakota]

POS,

Don at FBO uses a pedestal stand, I dont know if this will work but worth a look at it............... Scroll down on the link and you will see the set up. I think he sells the pedestal shim by itself.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/FBO_EQ Cylinder heads.htm

it wont work.

These pedestals have a completely round base and wont fit into that rail.
Also in looking at theirs, it's way too much. looks like at least 5-6mm on their shim, maybe more. I only need 2.5-3mm more height. Their pedestal bases are keyed to fit into the register of that rail as a means to stop any side to side movement.

These are connected with the shaft so there's no need to key anything as the shaft doesnt allow any side to side movement. Keyed meaning the flats milled in the pedestals of the examples you've shown to fit into the rail.

All mine would need is a flat piece of steel to sit on like how a typical comp stud would sit atop a guideplate. Plus I have a lot more faith in them sitting on steel rather than aluminum.;)

Those may very well be the rockers I was also interested in (racer brown) seeing a while back. I thought they were shaft too, but they arent! wow. I like the hughes design better though because of the shaft pairing up two rockers.

This is engine building though. If everything went completely smooth, what would we have to live for, and how much more gratification would we have with the finished product?

Doesnt matter if it's a balancer that is too long/short, or I guess rockers not tall enough. :-D

 

[POS Dakota]

Brian, here's a picture of the roller resting on the valve tip (closed position)...just in case what I was saying didnt convey the idea. hehe

Too far toward the intake side, correct?

I'll get the sweep pattern later. I have a meeting this morning and I'll do some more tinkering soon as I have time.