Hughes main stud girdle - yes or no

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kielbasa

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Hi guys, curious if it pays to install the stud girdle kit, or would it be a waste of $$$?
Application is stock block 360, 4.125 crank, fairly mild 5~550ish horsepower street engine.
My initial thoughts are "seems like a good idea"...however I've seen some internet remarks kind of chuckling about the Hughes girdle, but I really don't know why. Just wondering if any of you have first hand experience and can give honest, objective feedback - Thanks for any info!!
 
They chuckle because people have been building more powerful engines without issue before Hughes came out with that item.

Is it worth the expense of getting it? IDK
 
They really aren't all that expensive, and for me, it was worth it for the extra insurance. I have a 4" crank, so I'd recommend it for a 4.125 crank. With that crank, you'll probably have to do some clearancing on the girdle because mine comes pretty close. Might want to call Hughes and ask if it will work. Also works like a scraper to get excess oil off the crank.
 
I was told that there is no need for one as long as you use studs. My 410 with a 4” stroke is just using studs….hp is somewhere in the low 500’s.
 
I have one on my 410 there are 2 ways to install it, use a bunch of washers to get it above the main caps or machine the caps just a little bit and when you tighten it up it actually hits the cap and tightens up against it. Either way you will need to LINE HONE the mains with the Girdle installed. It also acts as a crank scraper. I had my caps machined down a bit and then line honed with it torqued down. Yes the Girdle had to be notched when doing it this way. I don't believe a windage tray will fit if you are using one. I say if you are going to use Nitrous or Boost install one.
 
............I would put it in, better 2 b safe than sorry, unless ofcource u have the time and money 2 do it over again..............kim.........
 
I would use one...Extra insurance is always good...I don't have one on my 408 when Hughes built my short block, I guess I forgot to ask to have one installed...But was kinda bugged when they didn't ask me if I wanted one either, or said nothing about it...Either way, I do have new main caps and ARP studs, so I think I'll be fine...
 
If you have enough concern to need a girdle, buy a better block. Studs and 2-bolt billet caps will work easilly to 550hp and I know a couple making that plus running 175hp plate of NO2. I dont recommend making more than 600 on a factory block. It's cost prohibitive when you can spend a little more and get a better block to begin with.
 
the program main caps cost more than the girdle......girdle seems more cost effective (to me at least at my power levels) given the fact that it also includes ARP studs.....also seems it can act as a crank scraper (at least the advertisement says so!)......hmmm, guess I'll ponder on this for a while...thanks for the info so far!
 
moper said:
If you have enough concern to need a girdle, buy a better block. Studs and 2-bolt billet caps will work easilly to 550hp and I know a couple making that plus running 175hp plate of NO2. I dont recommend making more than 600 on a factory block. It's cost prohibitive when you can spend a little more and get a better block to begin with.
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At what power levels do you start to consider 2 bolt billet caps on a 4" stroker?

Who sells 2 bolt billet caps?
 
Pro Gram as noted, and I don't use them unless it was honestly capable of 550hp and steady high rpms. It's one of those "to each there own" things. If you are planning to make 600hp you are not tossing together a cast crank with a set of RPMs. You're going to be using good or really good heads, good rockers, a solid roller cam, good crank and rods... A budget for an honest NA 600hp will be between $8-10K depending on the top end package. For me, a factory block for that will cost $2400 to get ready. That's magged, sonic tested, fitting billet caps on #1-4 mains, studs, align bore and hone, square deck, bore, plate hone, bush lifter bores, modify oiling system, and de-burr. The caps and studs will run another $6-700. By the time you're done, you;ve got a block that will take 600hp, but it's maxxed out. For another few hundred you could have one that can handle another 2-300hp and be rebuildable even at much larger displacements.
 
What about steady rpms with under 450 hp with 4" stroker? Needed? With cast crank?

I'm only considering because my core block has a mismatched cap so I have to align hone anyway.

moper said:
Pro Gram as noted, and I don't use them unless it was honestly capable of 550hp and steady high rpms. It's one of those "to each there own" things. If you are planning to make 600hp you are not tossing together a cast crank with a set of RPMs. You're going to be using good or really good heads, good rockers, a solid roller cam, good crank and rods... A budget for an honest NA 600hp will be between $8-10K depending on the top end package. For me, a factory block for that will cost $2400 to get ready. That's magged, sonic tested, fitting billet caps on #1-4 mains, studs, align bore and hone, square deck, bore, plate hone, bush lifter bores, modify oiling system, and de-burr. The caps and studs will run another $6-700. By the time you're done, you;ve got a block that will take 600hp, but it's maxxed out. For another few hundred you could have one that can handle another 2-300hp and be rebuildable even at much larger displacements.
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No need at all. Make sure the mains are studded, have it align bored/honed, make sure the balancing is done well, and let it go.
 
I have one for my new stock block build. It started out to just be a 408 with all the same stuff as my 360. Should have been fine at that level but then it's morphed into something else. Suddenly there was a W5 tunnel ram available to me and a .725 lift roller cam, a set of 2.08 intake valves and a couple of 750 Demons, what's a boy to do?

I'm going to go ahead and build it and hope it lasts a season or two until I get an R3 block done.
 
I bought the Hughes girdle kit but having presented it, along with my block, to my engine builder he is quite reluctant to use it.
To give a bit of background, he has measured the mains fitted with the supplied Hughes / ARP studs and tells me no line hone is needed
(I thought one had to hone when switching from bolts to studs, but he implies not, is it simply a case that if bore is concentric then all’s ok?).

Anyway, he showed me the girdle plate laid in place, no fasteners, and it can be wiggled around a fair bit, i.e. the stud holes are in no way an interference fit with the studs themsleves, he also was concerned about the use of shims between the main stud nut and the girdle plate as he thought this might allow the cap to flex but not be able to return to its original position causing more stress (He lost me a bit here, but that was the gist of it I think....).

What do you guys think? I feel a bit reluctant NOT to use it as it was 500 bucks, but this builder has a proven record of building top notch drag and historic racing V8 engines and I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about!
 
Knock on wood but I’ve gone 9.70’s with a stock 360 block with stock caps, no girdle, and no concrete. I just threw that block on my crap pile because I already rebuilt it three times and it was in need of its fourth rebuild. My son has countless mid 10 second passes with a block prepped the same way. Save your money.
 
After seeing a cap split in half on a block with a girdle I'm not sold. As other have said run quality studs and align hone the block. The other thing no one seems to do is detail the caps. By this I mean carefully deburr and grind down all the corners and edges of the cap with a ScotchBrite wheel or sanding drum.
 
I know a couple of builders that say they are a real hassle to install correctly, very time consuming. U can do more harm than good if not done correctly. I guess it depends on ur budget. If it’s not at least 1/2 in thick they r a waist of time. Kim
 
any over bore at all? I would be more converned with the cinder wall if it’s over bored. Power adder/high rpm yes. Provably overkill for your build.
 
oldkimmer said:
I know a couple of builders that say they are a real hassle to install correctly, very time consuming. U can do more harm than good if not done correctly. I guess it depends on ur budget. If it’s not at least 1/2 in thick they r a waist of time. Kim
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The way they are made, they can only restrain the caps from tilting forward and backwards. They don't have any real strength vertically or in twist.
 
As long as the machining is dead on the factory stuff is great. Studs are always better then bolts.
 
Wreckless said:
I bought the Hughes girdle kit but having presented it, along with my block, to my engine builder he is quite reluctant to use it.
To give a bit of background, he has measured the mains fitted with the supplied Hughes / ARP studs and tells me no line hone is needed
(I thought one had to hone when switching from bolts to studs, but he implies not, is it simply a case that if bore is concentric then all’s ok?).

Anyway, he showed me the girdle plate laid in place, no fasteners, and it can be wiggled around a fair bit, i.e. the stud holes are in no way an interference fit with the studs themsleves, he also was concerned about the use of shims between the main stud nut and the girdle plate as he thought this might allow the cap to flex but not be able to return to its original position causing more stress (He lost me a bit here, but that was the gist of it I think....).

What do you guys think? I feel a bit reluctant NOT to use it as it was 500 bucks, but this builder has a proven record of building top notch drag and historic racing V8 engines and I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about!
Click to expand...

I run a girdle on my 440/505, seems to me it would help a big block more than a small block. Also sounds like ur builder hasn`t messed w/ one before and it scares him. They are a pain in the *** to set up, maybe he just doesn`t want to do it. Better todo it on the engine stand than laying underneath the car too!
 
Yeah at least the big block ones connect it to the skirt and stabilize it, the small blocks I personally don't see any benefit from them.
 
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