Inspection of a 904 torqueflite

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No.....I didn’t stand it up.
I only get the .008 difference when I pull the input shaft tight. When just let it do what it wants it’s like .004.

I’m going to have to research some of these clearances. I think what I was doing was right but I don’t know for sure and that’s the only one I know how to do. I didn’t check any other play.

When I checked it the first time. The tail shaft was there.....just not the housing.
The one in the picture.....the housing is installed as well. The one with the housing installed is the final

I don’t know how to do input shaft or output shaft play ...yet.

I thought this was gear train play

Is .051 within spec?

Also there are 2 washers on the output shaft. one the size of a quarter and the other is much larger with a tab on it.

The one with the tab. Is that the selective thrust washer or is it the smaller one.

There are several learning modules. The hard parts, clearances, valve body. I haven't even touched the valve body yet.

The next is how to clearance this thing and what they all are, how
To measure them, and what the spec are for them
 
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glhx said:
No.....I didn’t stand it up.
I only get the .008 difference when I pull the input shaft tight. When just let it do what it wants it’s like .004.

I’m going to have to research some of these clearances. I think what I was doing was right but I don’t know for sure and that’s the only one I know how to do. I didn’t check any other play.

When I checked it the first time. The tail shaft was there.....just not the housing.
The one in the picture.....the housing is installed as well. The one with the housing installed is the final

I don’t know how to do input shaft or output shaft play ...yet.

I thought this was gear train play

Is .051 within spec?

Also there are 2 washers on the output shaft. one the size of a quarter and the other is much larger with a tab on it.

The one with the tab. Is that the selective thrust washer or is it the smaller one.

There are several learning modules. The hard parts, clearances, valve body. I haven't even touched the valve body yet.

The next is how to clearance this thing and what they all are, how
To measure them, and what the spec are for them
Click to expand...
No you are not checking gear train. Gear train is measured on the output shaft. It is the clearance between the snap ring and the front the planetary gears sets. You need to get a book of some kind.
To accurately measure your input shaft endplay, you need to have the trans fully assembled and standing on end.
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
nope. But maybe that's what he did to get that reading.
Click to expand...
From the Tom Hand transmission book the recommendation from Rick Allison is to stand the trans on end when checking endplay.
See pic.
CudaFactHackJob said:
nope. But maybe that's what he did to get that reading.
Click to expand...
see the pic

image.png
 
A break...

A break.........
....

We haven’t even gotten into the valve body yet.
 
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This is all the ATSG manual says about it. -

When I did this .....I got .051.....
What I would guess is that it means it’s within spec. I wonder how much Babbitt material has worn down on this thing.

When they are completely rebuilt with new thrust washers. What does the spec usually read. I’m guessing .030 total.
 
glhx said:
View attachment 1715356100
This is all the ATSG manual says about it. -

When I did this .....I got .051.....
What I would guess is that it means it’s within spec. I wonder how much Babbitt material has worn down on this thing.

When they are completely rebuilt with new thrust washers. What does the spec usually read. I’m guessing .030 total.
Click to expand...
When you push the input shat in and out, it is bottoming against the output shaft when pushing in and bottoming against the back of the pump when pulling out. The pump position cannot move, but the output shaft position can move slightly. If it is not in the correct position it effects your indicator reading. Standing the trans on end simulates driving the vehicle. The output shaft is pushed forward.
at times..it is a more accurate reading to stand the trans on end because it's own weight will push the output shat all the way forward. Having said that, the trans is probably in spec.
 
It probably is. I’m looking at a few things. One of them being the Babbitt worn off of those thrust washers. Out not even be a big deal.

I am two fold on this. Get all new washers, steels , bushings, and anything worn out even a little for around $300 with a shift kit

Or just throw $70-80 at it and run it.
 
48171927626_4315094f1e_z.jpg
The measurements on this are
.067 on the slightly worn side where it shows a little copper missing....if that’s what that is
.069 on the other side with the copper intact.
The replacement I’ve found for this is 2 of them in different sizes @.068 and .052 -
This is called selective washer #3

I’m guessing this one in the picture is good and can be reused or can be replaced with .068

What the spec is.....that it came with. I don’t know. The transmission has 126k on it and was better taken care of than the motor. The clutches might have been burned up due to low fluid or maybe lack of a kick down.....so the rest of the parts might not be worn as bad. This one is the main washer to adjust the end play on a 904 only

I will for sure replace the pump bushing, direct drum and output-shaft busing

I’ll start posting some measurements of all the others.
Washer #1 and #2 are both Teflon.

The leak from the front pump was a torn pump to housing gasket on the bottom. The gasket is very rigid and finally just tore
 
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His is the front planet set. Both of these thrust washers run .048
Are these not supposed to be .061 as said above?-

48172334302_cc545e54cd_m.jpg
These are the rear planet set thrust washers. They run similar to the front......
.048 and .049 front and back-

48172408622_75e963be6c_m.jpg
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This is the thickest washer. The one with the tab on it. It measures .124 .........The replacement shows .121 online.
I’m guessing*this one is fine.
However....look at the inside of it. Is that supposed to be that way or is that wear. I can’t get the caliper in there to measure it. This still has most of its copper color intact on the other side.
EDIT: (this washer controls the planetary gear train end play. The cut out in the middle that is mentioned above....that’s cause by the snap ring wearing into the thick washer. I think the spec for planetary gear-train endplay is .005-.045. If it shows out of spec. You can replace this washer AND THE SNAP RING)
The planets thrust washers should also be considered here. Mine is not out of spec. If I had to try to get it back into spec. I would measure the outside surface of this thick washer. Then replace it. And then check the spec again....then replace the planets thrust washers.....
 
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I just checked the end play as it sits. I haven’t assembled it since I checked it that way. It’s not been stood up.

I’m just checking clearances on all these washers.

What did these things run when they were new for endplay and are these washers in spec.

If the thrust washers are supposed to be .061. They are definitely not in spec. But to get them there the transmission would have 0 end play.

It’s almost as if the spec is not .061
I’ll check the manual t be sure but I don’t think it gives all the washer specs either
 
Ok.....never mind.
Those 4 thrust washers for the planets are .048-.050

It’s the Teflon’s that are .061-.063

This transmission isn’t even really worn out at all. It’s right on the edge of out of out of spec In some areas.

But it took 126k to lose .002 clearance on most of the parts.

In my opinion. I could run it for a long time and be fine. I would say so. The endplay is in spec no matter what.

The question is.....should I replace the planet thrust washers and the Teflon’s.

The other washer looks like it’s carved out. The outside is in spec but I doubt that inside piece is and it looks like it wears there....

I don’t know.....maybe you do. The picture of the new one doesn’t look like that.

The specs are right on the edge and some are right in the middle.
What do you guys think?

What do you do when your right on the line
 
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A Transtar Super Deluxe rebuild kit and a Trans-go TF2 shift kit will set you back about $200 and contain everything you're likely to need (and some parts you may chose not to replace). Do you have a Transtar supplier close? There should be one in Nashville, Knoxville or Memphis.
 
Fiber washers....thank you for the correction on that.

What are your thoughts on the flex bands? I need to replace the front band.....I think. It has some wear on it in the apply area. I would rather not go with something that’s going to be worse than the part that’s in there already. I know the kickdown that’s stock is not a flex band and looks more like the reverse band. Looking at the one I have now. It doesn’t even look that bad
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This area is the total extent of the wear. The rest is flat and smooth-

I’ve also looked at adding the 3.8 servo lever but I’m running this car basically stock so I’m thinking it might not be necessary. It has a 3.2 in there now and I dont go much over 4K rpm

That kit does look like it has everything I need for the stuff that’s gettin*replaced.
I think there is one in cookeville. Not sure...I know transtar bought out dacco here.

Then someone else came in after dacco left and started remanufacturing*torque converters. I bought stock one from them and now think I should have gone a bit higher in the stall for a 262 Cam I want to run. Like a 2200

I wonder about having this relined. I like that it’s shaped close to the shape of the drum it clamps to.
 
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The measurement here is .016,,,,,,,the spec it should be so far is unknown. Will correct this when it is known. -


I checked this by putting the planets and associated parts onto the output shaft. The #3 thrust plate and the #4 thrust washer ......(the thick one with the tab that’s supposed to set this clearance.) ........selective washers.

I held it up and checked the gap between the output shaft and the rear ring gear (also called the rear annulus gear). The clearance as shown is .016

I do not know what the spec is yet or even what this measurement is called.....or why it needs to be done.

I think it’s called.....(Planetary gear-train endplay)......

I can guess it covers all the planets contained in the output shaft and the total motion all those can move. It would include those 4 large thrust washers which would ave a huge impact in this measurement.

To me......without knowing the spec.
.016 seems pretty good.

EDIT: (I think the spec is .005-.045)
If it is out of spec you replace the thick washer and the snap ring.

One thing of note here. My planets thrust washers are on the line of spec.
If I were to replace those. And the thick selective washer. I would turn that .016 into around .010

Is that even worth it.....I mean. A set of washers is $20 so it’s not that big of deal but I’m trying to learn here.
 
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Can I get a newer sun shell with the 2.74 gear and planet and just set it in there with no other modifications

I would rather lower the gear in the transmission than the differential. I guess I could just get it and see how it goes. I know they sometimes match to the 5 disc clutch and a different pump.
But I also see the hp trans shops selling them as standalone upgrades. My car runs a 2.73 gear set and I would like to keep that. If you guys know for sure. I would like to know. I’ve researched the hell out of it and find all sorts of information where people have run this....but nothing definitive. Nothing that says....yes it works and this is how.

Basically like the ones in the picture
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If I put all that in my 904......will it work with no other modifications. -
 
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What makes you think that's a low gear set?? Maybe you should concentrate on fixing your transmission to stock without screwing it up. The usual experts aren't chiming in because they're just lurking back and shaking their heads after reading some of the strangest advice they've ever seen; spending $105 on a rebuild kit, replacing the tailshaft bushing, standing the trans on the output shaft, . I see a lot of first timers trying to do a bang up job; just to end up with $500 worth of incompatible junk. You spend hours measuring perfectly good thrust washers yet you want to use a flaked band.
 
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