Keisler 5-speed conversion on Early A-body: Install has begun

[SilverFish]

FSTFISH66: Your 66 makes me drool. =P~

Please send me (PM) some pics of your "tubs under glass"!

I am running a Mcleod clutch and PP, I want to say it is a 3000# combo, but I will have to check the receipts (it you are interested).

I cut the crossover flush to the vertical components and welded the seams creating a "box" with the original material. I then plunked the TKO-600 on a mill and hogged out the section of the case that houses the shift rails and fabricated a new cover. In hindsight, it would have been easier to cut out the tunnel and rebuild with box tubing and leave the tranny alone. #-o

I ran the TKO-600 because the ratios were too far apart in the 500 for me, but I still ran the .64 OD, and probably should have bought the .82. Oh well, lesson learned. That said, I see about 2300 RPM at 70 MPH in fifth (3500 in fourth).

:supz:

 

[dart4forte]

Did this three years ago before Keisler made it "easy". You won't regret it, it transforms the vehicle. Only thing I still don't like about the Keisler setup (I can see it in your pics) is their hydraulic master: it wouldn't work with Doug's headers. I ended up using a standard 7/8" Wilwood unit and McLeod hydraulic throwout. Looks like they did a nice job kitting it otherwise though.

Cheers!

What is a Ishihara crank scraper?

 

[SilverFish]

What is a Ishihara crank scraper?

It's actually a who, not a what (wink, wink). Crank scrapers wipe the excess oil off the cranks throws as they pass by the block opening, reducing windage. The Ishihara-Johnson units are simple, effective, and fit between the oil pan and the block. They are a starting point, and to be more effective, they need to be customized for each application: I spent a few hours trial fitting and grinding mine to fit my engine to optimize the gaps between the crank throws and my scrapers. Probably not essential for a street motor, but I can be anal sometimes............they make a second tier product that has a teflon wiper that "clearances" itself for a much closer fit than I wanted or probably needed. I have attached their website link for your enjoyment.

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Chrysler.html

:cheers:

 

[dart4forte]

It's actually a who, not a what (wink, wink). Crank scrapers wipe the excess oil off the cranks throws as they pass by the block opening, reducing windage. The Ishihara-Johnson units are simple, effective, and fit between the oil pan and the block. They are a starting point, and to be more effective, they need to be customized for each application: I spent a few hours trial fitting and grinding mine to fit my engine to optimize the gaps between the crank throws and my scrapers. Probably not essential for a street motor, but I can be anal sometimes............they make a second tier product that has a teflon wiper that "clearances" itself for a much closer fit than I wanted or probably needed. I have attached their website link for your enjoyment.

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Chrysler.html

:cheers:

I know what they are and what they do, just didn't recognize the brand. I have a Mopar scraper on my 273. Thge scraper I have is cheaper than the one on the web site.

 

[SilverFish]

I know what they are and what they do, just didn't recognize the brand. I have a Mopar scraper on my 273. Thge scraper I have is cheaper than the one on the web site.

I wasn't aware that Mopar made a set of scrapers. Windage trays, of course. Scraper? Didn't know they offered them.

Any pics and did you have to customize for fit?

Here is a pic of my scrapers being installed (curing the silicone). You can see where I ground out features to match the contours of the rod bolts etc. to minimize the gaps. Obviously then the windage tray attaches to the ends of the main bolts.

Cheers

 

[dart4forte]

I wasn't aware that Mopar made a set of scrapers. Windage trays, of course. Scraper? Didn't know they offered them.

Any pics and did you have to customize for fit?

Here is a pic of my scrapers being installed (curing the silicone). You can see where I ground out features to match the contours of the rod bolts etc. to minimize the gaps. Obviously then the windage tray attaches to the ends of the main bolts.

Cheers

Actually I used a SB Chev scraper. Drill several holes and you are in business. As far as a atroker then it has to be modified some.

 

[lilcuda]

Did this three years ago before Keisler made it "easy". You won't regret it, it transforms the vehicle. Only thing I still don't like about the Keisler setup (I can see it in your pics) is their hydraulic master: it wouldn't work with Doug's headers. I ended up using a standard 7/8" Wilwood unit and McLeod hydraulic throwout. Looks like they did a nice job kitting it otherwise though.

Cheers!

Got any pics of your hydraulic master setup? I know you can mount it in the speedometer cable hole, but what did you do for linkage to the clutch pedal? I'd love to see pics of that and the rest of your hyd clutch setup. I'm contemplating Doug's headers but I also want a hyd clutch linkage.

 

[fstfish66]

SLIVER FISH, I WIL GET YOU PICS SOON,, MY PUTER WENT DOWN,, NOW I HAVE TO RELOAD EVERY THING,, WHAT ARE YOU USING A FORK ?? OR HYD BEARING???,, I HAVE THE QUICK TIME SCATTER SHIELD FOR SB MOPAR TO TREMEC ON ITS WAY,, E MAIL ME SOME TIME fstfish66@aol.com thanks

 

[Dodgenut64]

Did this three years ago before Keisler made it "easy". You won't regret it, it transforms the vehicle. Only thing I still don't like about the Keisler setup (I can see it in your pics) is their hydraulic master: it wouldn't work with Doug's headers. I ended up using a standard 7/8" Wilwood unit and McLeod hydraulic throwout. Looks like they did a nice job kitting it otherwise though.

Cheers!

SilverFish, I love your barracuda. What size rims and tires are you rollin on, looks good, any suspension info? Also, evey time I read this thread, I keep telling myself getting the 5 speed is only about $1500 more then a rebuilt 4 speed from brewers.
Maybe I should make the jump and go for it? If I do get a 5 speed, you guys gotta promise to help me with any questions I might have. Im abit of a monkey sometimes and I ask tons of questions.
The only thing is, I have a third member with 2.94 gears, which means my car will probably pull like it has 3.23s or maybe 3.55s, which is cool, but to quote the cop in the movie Dirty Larry Crazy Marry, my top speed would be "un-lim-mo-tid". Im gonna have to give it some thought.
Also, what size welders are you guys using for your mods to the crossmember support? I only have a millermatic 135 and wonder if itll cut the mustard for the crossmember support mods that are required for this swap.

 

[fstfish66]

DODGENUT64 i am doing the research on the tremec tko 5 speed,,i was watching daves valiant,and learned a lot about that swap watching it,, then talking with tremec,keislier,mopar classic 5 speed,,and a feew otheres,,
the bell housing are available from quick time for a direct bolt up, i ordered one it is on the way,,should fit the early A floor with NO PROBLEMS,, then you can buy the tranny form several places, dark horse performance is from what i hear the biggest vender of theses trannys,, also i recently discovered summit sells them the TKO 500 / 600 under the mustang section, you want to use the tremec with the ford bolt pattern for mopar,,just my .02 cents

p.s. tranny thru summit 1900.00 bucks (rumor 1600.00 thur dark horse,) ???

 

[Dodgenut64]

DODGENUT64 i am doing the research on the tremec tko 5 speed,,i was watching daves valiant,and learned a lot about that swap watching it,, then talking with tremec,keislier,mopar classic 5 speed,,and a feew otheres,,
the bell housing are available from quick time for a direct bolt up, i ordered one it is on the way,,should fit the early A floor with NO PROBLEMS,, then you can buy the tranny form several places, dark horse performance is from what i hear the biggest vender of theses trannys,, also i recently discovered summit sells them the TKO 500 / 600 under the mustang section, you want to use the tremec with the ford bolt pattern for mopar,,just my .02 cents

p.s. tranny thru summit 1900.00 bucks (rumor 1600.00 thur dark horse,) ???

Are the tko's all the same as far as the case? I thought some of them were different for different cars or is it just the crossmember that is different? Im gonna need everything except the pedals. I thought i read that they make a bellhousing for the tko that bolts up prefectly to the 5.7 hemi.

 

[daves66valiant]

SilverFish, I love your barracuda. What size rims and tires are you rollin on, looks good, any suspension info? Also, evey time I read this thread, I keep telling myself getting the 5 speed is only about $1500 more then a rebuilt 4 speed from brewers.
Maybe I should make the jump and go for it? If I do get a 5 speed, you guys gotta promise to help me with any questions I might have. Im abit of a monkey sometimes and I ask tons of questions.
The only thing is, I have a third member with 2.94 gears, which means my car will probably pull like it has 3.23s or maybe 3.55s, which is cool, but to quote the cop in the movie Dirty Larry Crazy Marry, my top speed would be "un-lim-mo-tid". Im gonna have to give it some thought.
Also, what size welders are you guys using for your mods to the crossmember support? I only have a millermatic 135 and wonder if itll cut the mustard for the crossmember support mods that are required for this swap.

The tremec cases are modified differently for each application. The shifters are moved and the the case is notched to clear the rear crossmember. If you are going with a stock tremec with no modifications you will need a flatten rear crossmember hump to clear the case. Plus you will have to make your own floor tunnel sheetmetal (I prefer this for sure).

I used Lincoln 140 mig with .030 wire with gas. Plenty strong.

You'll get all the help you need. Just ask.

Dave

I used a

 

[Dodgenut64]

Thanks Dave, sounds like my welder should be fine. I did some research, looks like my 2.94s should pull like 3.55s with the tko 500, which sounds ok to me for now anyway. Do any of you guys got any pics of the modifications you did to your clutch pedals for the hydrualic set up? Brewers has reconditioned pedals for around $300, but if Im gonna have to make any changes to it, I might aswell find a set in fair shape on ebay for half the price.

 

[daves66valiant]

yeah I have pics I think I forgot to post them. will add more this weekend if I get a chance. on mine u just tap out a pin on the pedals. it uses a shoulder bolt to attach to the slave push rod. you'll see what I mean.

btw. find a used set of pedals. $300 blows.

 

[SilverFish]

DODGENUT64 i am doing the research on the tremec tko 5 speed,,i was watching daves valiant,and learned a lot about that swap watching it,, then talking with tremec,keislier,mopar classic 5 speed,,and a feew otheres,,
the bell housing are available from quick time for a direct bolt up, i ordered one it is on the way,,should fit the early A floor with NO PROBLEMS,, then you can buy the tranny form several places, dark horse performance is from what i hear the biggest vender of theses trannys,, also i recently discovered summit sells them the TKO 500 / 600 under the mustang section, you want to use the tremec with the ford bolt pattern for mopar,,just my .02 cents

p.s. tranny thru summit 1900.00 bucks (rumor 1600.00 thur dark horse,) ???

Fred Sanderson at Dark Horse is a good man. He's actually who I purchased my "kit" from and he was very helpful in assembling the raw pieces for the kit. A good number of pieces need to be fabricated as his kits are universal (though he sets you up with the appropriate case for the application and a Lakewood bell housing to boot). He kits the clutch/pressure plate, flywheel, and throwout all from Mcleod (yup, you work with Red directly).The biggest challenges are the fit of the case and the tunnel/crossover/crossmember mods. The hydraulic clutch throwout setup took some minor fabrication as well (support plate to eliminate firewall flex, heim joint to clutch pedal and standoff for heim attachment).

I also chose the TKO-600 for it's closer gear ratio (and higher torque rating). Besides, the 3.27:1 first gear in the TKO-500 would have been silly with 3.91's. The 2.87:1 of the TKO-600 is plenty (and more importantly closer to second). At the time Keilser was getting $5K for these kits, and were still missing some key components (aside from the problem that they hadn't built the early A kits yet). Whereas Dark Horse kits were $3200 knowing you'd be doing some fabricating, but not really much less than the Keilser setup. I'd happily do business again with Dark Horse.

And to answer another question, I'm running 17x8's at all four corners, 245/45 and 255/45 Firestones with no clearance issues. The 5.25" backspacing and 3/4" perch relocation kit make it possible with no rubbing. Of course, 315/45's would really be nice..............

 

[Dodgenut64]

Kieslers setup comes with a drive shaft. How do they know how long to make it if my motor mounts are not in the exact factory position, wouldnt this change things? Is this a silly question?

OK, let me guess, you install the transmission, take measurements, and then they send you the driveshaft?

 

[Longgone]

Kieslers setup comes with a drive shaft. How do they know how long to make it if my motor mounts are not in the exact factory position, wouldnt this change things? Is this a silly question?

OK, let me guess, you install the transmission, take measurements, and then they send you the driveshaft?

Bingo!

 

[fstfish66]

RED ROBERTS IS NO LONGER PART OF MC CLOUD, mc cloud was bought out by B&M ALONG WITH CLASSIC 5 SPEED,, RED ROBERTS LEFT THE COMPANY, I HEARD HE IS REFORMING A NEW COMPANY,,,, WHAT A SHAME,TO BUILD A COMPANY LIKE MC CLOED I AND THEN TO BE BOUGHT OUT AND LEAVE IT,, sorry i can never remember how to spell MC CLOUD,,LOL

 

[daves66valiant]

Hear are some better pics of the pedals and brake lines for Dart4forte

 

[dart4forte]

Hear are some better pics of the pedals and brake lines for Dart4forte

Thanks

 

[SilverFish]

RED ROBERTS IS NO LONGER PART OF MC CLOUD, mc cloud was bought out by B&M ALONG WITH CLASSIC 5 SPEED,, RED ROBERTS LEFT THE COMPANY, I HEARD HE IS REFORMING A NEW COMPANY,,,, WHAT A SHAME,TO BUILD A COMPANY LIKE MC CLOED I AND THEN TO BE BOUGHT OUT AND LEAVE IT,, sorry i can never remember how to spell MC CLOUD,,LOL

I'm so sorry to hear that. I will keep an eye out for Red's future venture.

I have attached a few images also of my clutch pedal to hydraulic master cylinder pics. I fabricated a standoff that slid over the factory pivot and welded it to the clutch lever. The standoff has a threaded ID that I attached a heim joint connected to the clutch master cylinder to. The hydraulic master fits just above the factory speedo cable grommet hole. I also fabricated a plate fit behind the firewall to reduce firewall flx along with a truss that ties into the fender to further reduce firewall flex during pedal actuation. Probably overkill, but I'm OK with that. The image of the hole in the firewall is from my friend' 63 Valiant, which we performed the conversion on simultaneously on.

Cheers!

 

[Dodgenut64]

Thanks for the pics guys, now I got an idea what im gonna run into. Im thinking Ill go with the Keisler kit, minus thier pedals.

 

[fstfish66]

if you sorce the parts, you can do it way cheaper then keislier,,,

silver fish,, im using basiclly the same master,, i opened up the speeo cable hole,, and attached my master to the pedal the same way you did, i currently use a tilton hyd bearing nascar style ,, it has a 4 pedstl mount,, the scatter shield is drilled and counter sunk,,but im sure when i go to the tremec tranny i will use a different hyd bearing,, i read that tilton has one that bolts to the front of the tremec,, i havnt gotten that far yet,,,,

 

[Longgone]

Silverfish I noticed you still have the overhead spring on your clutch pedal, did you not have to remove it for use with your hydraulic clutch?

 

[SilverFish]

if you sorce the parts, you can do it way cheaper then keislier,,,

silver fish,, im using basiclly the same master,, i opened up the speeo cable hole,, and attached my master to the pedal the same way you did, i currently use a tilton hyd bearing nascar style ,, it has a 4 pedstl mount,, the scatter shield is drilled and counter sunk,,but im sure when i go to the tremec tranny i will use a different hyd bearing,, i read that tilton has one that bolts to the front of the tremec,, i havnt gotten that far yet,,,,

FstFish66, I have the invoice for my setup that I can dig up, I can check on part numbers for the Mcleod bolt-on hydraulic throwout (mounts in place of the input bearing support of the Tremec). That's of course assuming that it is still available............that said I can help Dodgenut64 with a list as well. Let me know!

Just out of curiosity, did you cut a window out of the bottom of the Lakewood to allow you access to the clutch/pressure plate bolts? I was very glad I did (since technically it is not a scattershiled, I didn't care) because it makes assembly/disassembly that much easier.