Lifter slow to pump..

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Mopar92

Mopar92

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360 LA , Smog 360 heads, 273 rockers with custom pushrods.

55 miles plus 25 min of cam break break in. I’ve got Johnson hyd lifters. 130 on the seat around 325 open. Broke it in with Brad Penn. 25 min and dumped it. New Brad penn 15/40 and new Mopar filter. Thought I heard a little touch of lifter noise at the gas station after 30 min of driving. Not bad but it wasn’t as quiet as it was when I started. Anyway, drove another 20 Miles or so and put it away for the day. Today went over to crank it to see if I fixed a really tiny oil leak around the oil filter adapter. Started it up today and had a hard lifter tick only on one lifter. Let it run at 1500 rpms or so and after 1 min it was ticking pretty bad.
I pulled the valve cover and marked every push rod. Started it up and they all rotated. Maybe I havent wiped a cam but that’s my fear. I adjusted a little preload into that rocker. I have 273 rockers. I have great oil flow up in the rockers. I started it up and it was the same. Put the valve cover back on and it was still a pretty solid tick out of that one rocker. I let it fast idle for a minute and it all but went away. Just a faint little tick at idle. It’s not as quiet as the others but it for sure settled down and 90% of the noise went away. What’s going on here ? This is absolutely the last performance engine I do in hyd Flat tappet. I can’t handle the aggravation or anxiety of the Infomous cam wipe. Thanks.
 
Do you have an oil pressure gauge where you can monitor pressure right at start up? I could be just one bad lifter. With the pushrod out, can you turn the motor at the damper with a ratchet and verify the lifter rotates?
 
Sounds like you are good if it all but went away. Started my la 318 up for the first time yesterday and pretty similar. Loud tick at start up then held RPMs up for about 2-3 minutes and it went way, 20 minutes up to full temp and then dumped oil and put in 10-30 ZR1. Today I Drove it 15 miles at 60 mph and no noise at all. So just keep an ear out for it. Wiping a lob I would think would show a bunch of silver in the oil when you changed. Drive and enjoy.
 
Don’t see metal in 50 mile fresh Brad Penn. still seems to have Lash. Just a hard tick the first 1 min. I shut it off and pulled a valve cover. Marked the pushrods. They all rotate. Valve cover back on and fast idled it and at some point in 20-30 seconds it went away. Well. I say went away. It wasn’t as quiet as it was 30 miles before right after getting my exhaust on it. When I get to it next week I’m thinking about plucking the lifter through the head and look at the bottom of it. I have 60 psi almost instantly. Creeps to 70 and after a minute it settles to 55-60 psi at 800 rpms idle. I could absolutely be wrong but I would think if I was wiped or wiping a love it wouldn’t quiet mostly back to normal after a minute. I have a ton of oil flow around the lifter and rockers while running. I could shine a light down and see pretty clearly. I’m just baffled why this started somewhere between break in and now. I did a good little 1st gear pull to maybe.... maybe... 4200. Surely that didn’t hurt anything. I for sure have not rev’d this thing to 5000 at any point. 2000-2200 rpms for a solid 25 min break in with Brad Penn breakin oil. Then some very easy street driving around the block before yesterdays Little road trip to the muffler shop and country trip. Thanks guys.
 
You might need to bust up over 5000... in gear.... to get the oil in the lifter and pump it up right
 
I don’t know about that. I’d like to get some more time on it. Machine shop is a very reputable shop and said please put 500 miles on it.
 
Mopar92 said:
I don’t know about that. I’d like to get some more time on it. Machine shop is a very reputable shop and said please put 500 miles on it.
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Then the shop is nuts. If the cam is broke in there is no reason to put 500 miles on it.

That dumb wives tale needs to die a quick death.
 
I think I’ll see if I can pull that lifter through the casting hole and look at the bottom of it and see the nose of the cam lobe. If it looks good, I’ll put it back in. Check all my preloads and start driving it. I’ve had dirt late model engines run 20 minutes to leak check it. And hot lapped at 8800 rpms at 22 mins in and they lived. Not quite the same engine here. Just saying. I agree. Break the cam in and be careful driving it while shaking down the car. And then start having fun.
 
yellow rose said:
Then the shop is nuts. If the cam is broke in there is no reason to put 500 miles on it.

That dumb wives tale needs to die a quick death.
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IMM Engines is doing my 408 for me. He is going to place the engine on a dyno... break it in and then see what HP and TQ the engine can produce.
I doubt seriously they are going to keep it under 5000 RPM or put 500 miles on it. :rolleyes:
 
The mileage is for the rings - not the camshaft. You can get on it any time after the cams's broke in, but you might have some ring sealing issues if the rings don't seat right away.
You may have a worn lifter bore allowing the one to bleed down, and making it harder to pump back up. I would try more and less preload to try and find a "sweet spot" it likes.
 
moper said:
The mileage is for the rings - not the camshaft. You can get on it any time after the cams's broke in, but you might have some ring sealing issues if the rings don't seat right away.
You may have a worn lifter bore allowing the one to bleed down, and making it harder to pump back up. I would try more and less preload to try and find a "sweet spot" it likes.
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There should be no reason the rings aren't in 95% BEFORE the engine even fires. The last 5% should happen in less than a minute.


If the bore geometry is correct, ring seating is very quick. Cheap rings are belt lapped, and the better quality rings are barrel lapped.

In 1984 I had a local engine builder bore and hone a 340 for me. On start up, it smoked like a locomotive for 25 minutes straight. It was horrible. I had the guy on the phone telling me to hang on, the rings would come in. A minute or two later, the smoking stopped. He said there you go. Rings are seated.


I fought the tune up for a couple of weeks then pulled the engine and took it apart. Every ring was so sharp you could shave with it. I had 3 passes on it and less than 50 miles and the rings were junk. His **** hone job burnished the bores. The ring faces ripped the iron off the bores, exposing a very rough finish, which ate the rings up.

Needless to say, it was my fault because of improper break in. Never used that idiot again, and shortly thereafter, started doing my own machining.
 
If I had a lifter noise and went through the hassle of getting it out I would put a new one in there.
There is such a thing as a lifter with bad machining in the valve. (AKA bad brand new part)
 
TrailBeast said:
If I had a lifter noise and went through the hassle of getting it out I would put a new one in there.
There is such a thing as a lifter with bad machining in the valve. (AKA bad brand new part)
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It’s not too bad if you can pull it through the head.
 
Mopar92 said:
Can you buy just one lifter ?
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I just looked it up on the Advance Auto website, and they sell one at a time and of course sets.
A new lifter on an already broke in cam is perfectly acceptable, though you should do the same break in procedure even though it's just one new one.
An old lifter on a new cam is a big no no though.
 
Mopar92 said:
360 LA , Smog 360 heads, 273 rockers with custom pushrods.

55 miles plus 25 min of cam break break in. I’ve got Johnson hyd lifters. 130 on the seat around 325 open. Broke it in with Brad Penn. 25 min and dumped it. New Brad penn 15/40 and new Mopar filter. Thought I heard a little touch of lifter noise at the gas station after 30 min of driving. Not bad but it wasn’t as quiet as it was when I started. Anyway, drove another 20 Miles or so and put it away for the day. Today went over to crank it to see if I fixed a really tiny oil leak around the oil filter adapter. Started it up today and had a hard lifter tick only on one lifter. Let it run at 1500 rpms or so and after 1 min it was ticking pretty bad.
I pulled the valve cover and marked every push rod. Started it up and they all rotated. Maybe I havent wiped a cam but that’s my fear. I adjusted a little preload into that rocker. I have 273 rockers. I have great oil flow up in the rockers. I started it up and it was the same. Put the valve cover back on and it was still a pretty solid tick out of that one rocker. I let it fast idle for a minute and it all but went away. Just a faint little tick at idle. It’s not as quiet as the others but it for sure settled down and 90% of the noise went away. What’s going on here ? This is absolutely the last performance engine I do in hyd Flat tappet. I can’t handle the aggravation or anxiety of the Infomous cam wipe. Thanks.
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I don't know where to start. I feel for you as i know you've had complications. I hope it's just one bad lifter. Can i ask "why the 273 rockers on the hydraulic cam"? Sometimes when problems have plagued us, we need to implement KISS - - Keep It Simple Stupid :D

As far as lobes being wiped out, and the fear, .... well... At some point the process, the machinist, something has to be challenged. I'm a shade tree mechanic/redneck wrenching or whatever name you have for me, but I've never, ever, lost a lobe in more than 30+ years in doing this. I've had failure on the break-in such as cranking and failure to start; engine wouldn't stay running; and other complications that the "fear" mongers warn against. To me it gets more dangerous with high lift/fast ramp cams with lots of spring pressure.
 
It’s really not a huge lift but it’s got pretty fast ramps. 130 on the seat, 330 or so open. So the recipe to wipe one isn’t ruled out. If it’s wiped, I will throw this entire engine in the lake after I pull the heads. And I will throw every flat tappet lifter or part in the lake with It and be done with it. Had I been able to find a more reasonable Magnum I would have gone that route and EQ’s. Maybe it’s just a bad lifter. I dunno. I know that I’m not pulling this engine out and having it cleaned and done again. It’s just not meant to be. Considering the MP water pump impeller was spinning on the shaft and melted me on the first go around.... ugh. It’s been a rough one. Meanwhile my Chevy buddies who are helping me are just jerking off over this. They are damn good race car and auto mechanics. Non of this their fault but it’s embarrassing that’s for sure. Finally got my refund on that **** new MP water pump. Anyway. I’ll hope for the best and pull the lifter through the head and have a look. There’s no way I’m putting an autozone lifter in this thing BTW. No offense. As for the 273 setup, because it was freshly bushed and I had them on the shelf.
 
Pulled the lifter through the head today. Looks beautiful. So that’s good news. I took the lifter apart and it was very clean inside. Nothing unusual for a 300 mile lifter. I started it up after soaking the lifter. Pretty bad tick. Shut it down after 30 seconds. Put some turns into the adjuster until I could just barely roll the pushrod with my fingers. Much much quieter. It does concern me that I’ve got 2-3 turns more than the others. But whatever. I’m going to run it and see what happens. I don’t think it’s bottomed out or anything. Thanks for he tech help. I learn Ton from you guys.
 
Dealing with the same situation myself too with my 360 build.
Brand new hydraulic lifters, new in box but roughly 20 years old. Cleaned, inspected and installed.
Engine broken in nicely, but one lifter ticking. 1 lifter didn't hold pressure, 2 others showed a partly colapse.
Ticking sometimes went away after a while but returned again when holding the engine at 1500-2000rpm for some time.

You can adjust away the preload until it pretty much becomes a solid lifter. But, the internal lifter cilinder is then riding on a thin ridge inside the lifter body, which will most likely wear down very quickly and open up the preload again.

Went through this crap also a few years ago when I built my 496" stroker. Installed a solid rollercam afterwards.
This time it will be the last time I will use hydraulic lifters in a build. I will convert the current set into solids because I don't want to buy different pushrods and do a second break-in either.
 
OP, replace the lifter; it is not going to fix itself. Unfortunately, it is becoming common for a significant % of new hydraulic lifters to crap out and not hold pressure. We have seen this increasing over the last 10 years in a variety of hydraulic lifters. When they were all US made back in the day, this did not happen very often; times have changed and I suspect the check valve parts, or the finish of the check valve seat machining is crappy.

We replaced 1 of 16 new Crane lifters in the last build; one had gradually crapped out over about 800 miles, and had changed from being fine to not holding pressure well. You could hear it in one bank's exhaust note.
 
Just goop it up with assembly lube and 20 min at 2000+ and go with it huh. Treat it like a new cam right.
 
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