nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
I tried to find this video by search function and by going back 28 pages looking for the honing thread.
Thanks for the help!
Thanks for the help!
Looking for a thread that had a youtube video of different honing tools & which one worked better, like a ball hone versus a 3 finger hone.
- Thread starter nothingbutdarts
- Start date
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Three finger hones help to straighten up the cylinder.
Ball hones are good for breaking the glaze on good condition cylinder walls. Got to break the glaze so that the new rings will seat.
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Ball hones are good for breaking the glaze on good condition cylinder walls. Got to break the glaze so that the new rings will seat.
☆☆☆☆☆
You cannot really compare a three finger hone to a ball hone. They do two completely different and separate things. The three finger actually will remove metal. The ball hone is only meant to break the glaze on the cylinders and produce a good cross hatch. You would have to hone one cylinder literally for hours with a ball hone to get the same result as a three finger hone. Even that might not do it.
Only if you have a fixture capable of holding the three finger hone completely perpendicular to the crankshaft center line. A hand held drill with a three finger hone won't get the job done.
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys, however, I am looking for a recent youtube video on the subject that an engine guy put together on youtube, i want to share the video with someone.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree Rusty, I've used a handheld 3 stone on dozens of refreshes over the decades, with great success .
And custom made Scotchbrite "shoes" to fit over the stones, for final finish on moly rings .
Cheers .
You're certainly free to do so!
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Honing a cylinder without a bore gauge or at least a good inside micrometer and a good outside micrometer to keep track of that you are doing is pretty much insane.
If the bore is out of round and tapered (they ALL are after they run 150k miles or more with **** oil that was never changed) you need to be able to “see” what you are doing and try to get the bore as straight and round as you can.
Those 3 fingered hones will remove material but they are slow and they tend to follow the bore. That’s because they flex. A rigid hone will get the bore more straight and round much quicker while building less heat.
If you are going to do it (you as in anyone giving honing a try) make sure you use an oil like ATF or something similar and not something like WD-40 or gasoline or alcohol. Vitrified abrasives are designed to break down so that you constantly have a fresh, clean, sharp cutting face. The above listed light stuff doesn’t allow the abrasive to break down and you end up burnishing the bores and that’s a big no-no.
The cutting oil also clears away the swarf (the broken down abrasive and cast iron removed from the bore) so if you don’t use enough cutting oil that swarf gets impacted back into the valleys and it stays there. You can’t wash it out. It only comes out when the rings start moving across the bores. That’s the same as adding sand to the bores on start up. That’s not good. In fact, that bad. Very bad.
Most of the videos I have watched crack me up. They guys doing it look like a whirling dervish, pumping that hone up and down like they are banging a cheap hooker on blow.
They turn the hone way too fast and to get the crosshatch correct they have to move the hone so fast it’s crazy.
Slow the hone RPM way down, then slow down the stokes per minute a bunch until you get your 22.5 degree angle (45 degrees included).
Keep the stones wet and use a lot of oil to keep them clean and sharp.
Honing looks pretty simple and it is. But it’s way easier to screw stuff up than it is to do it correctly.
If the bore is out of round and tapered (they ALL are after they run 150k miles or more with **** oil that was never changed) you need to be able to “see” what you are doing and try to get the bore as straight and round as you can.
Those 3 fingered hones will remove material but they are slow and they tend to follow the bore. That’s because they flex. A rigid hone will get the bore more straight and round much quicker while building less heat.
If you are going to do it (you as in anyone giving honing a try) make sure you use an oil like ATF or something similar and not something like WD-40 or gasoline or alcohol. Vitrified abrasives are designed to break down so that you constantly have a fresh, clean, sharp cutting face. The above listed light stuff doesn’t allow the abrasive to break down and you end up burnishing the bores and that’s a big no-no.
The cutting oil also clears away the swarf (the broken down abrasive and cast iron removed from the bore) so if you don’t use enough cutting oil that swarf gets impacted back into the valleys and it stays there. You can’t wash it out. It only comes out when the rings start moving across the bores. That’s the same as adding sand to the bores on start up. That’s not good. In fact, that bad. Very bad.
Most of the videos I have watched crack me up. They guys doing it look like a whirling dervish, pumping that hone up and down like they are banging a cheap hooker on blow.
They turn the hone way too fast and to get the crosshatch correct they have to move the hone so fast it’s crazy.
Slow the hone RPM way down, then slow down the stokes per minute a bunch until you get your 22.5 degree angle (45 degrees included).
Keep the stones wet and use a lot of oil to keep them clean and sharp.
Honing looks pretty simple and it is. But it’s way easier to screw stuff up than it is to do it correctly.
If your doing your Lawn mower use a finger or a ball style. There is a reason for a fixed adjustable power hone. Take it o a shop and have it done correctly and the rings will break in properly. You will achieve a better ring seal and they will last much longer. Remember if there is a taper in the bore the rings go in and out of the groves on the pistons as they go up and down in the tapered bore. More wear and more heat.
A power hone has a fixed adjustable hone. It doesn't cut past its tension that is dialed in .
Also never hone a block without a torque plate. If you ever have one done without a torque plate. And then tear it down for a refresh you will see every head bolt hole marks in the bore. Not only do the threads bulge the bore the block flexes when the heads are torqued which ovals the bores at times.
The first thing you ask when dropping your block off at a machine shop to get bored or honed is if the have torque plates for your block. And they should have 2 for any V8's or V6's because both need to be installed. If they don't have torque plates they can make them or move on to a better equipped shop.
My son makes his own if they are not available. He has them for future builds they are tools you'll have forever . He has a shelf full like many engine machine shops do or should.
A power hone has a fixed adjustable hone. It doesn't cut past its tension that is dialed in .
Also never hone a block without a torque plate. If you ever have one done without a torque plate. And then tear it down for a refresh you will see every head bolt hole marks in the bore. Not only do the threads bulge the bore the block flexes when the heads are torqued which ovals the bores at times.
The first thing you ask when dropping your block off at a machine shop to get bored or honed is if the have torque plates for your block. And they should have 2 for any V8's or V6's because both need to be installed. If they don't have torque plates they can make them or move on to a better equipped shop.
My son makes his own if they are not available. He has them for future builds they are tools you'll have forever . He has a shelf full like many engine machine shops do or should.
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nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Anyone remember the video?
Probably the one I shared
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
I looked at the one you posted and that was not it. Thanks though!
replicaracer43
Grumpy Old Man
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My god please tell me THIS wasn't the video you wanted to see
When you are looking for the best info, you go to the best builders. Period!
I'm kinda waiting to see if it is the proper one also
I made the video I posted above
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Neither of the hones he is using will correct Taper or any type of ovalling . If the cylinder has up an down bulges or a taper it will get worse.
A fixed hone has two stones and a scraper /follower. They are also adjustable to size by turning the large wheel at the top to only take out the dialed in material to the finish bore as I pictured above. Another words you can hone as long as you want. if you don't expand the tool it stops cutting at the diameter you tightened it to.
The ball hone can be used to deglaze a fresh build for newer rings in a bind .
The three finger spring tension hone is for fixing and rebuilding hydraulic cylinders that are using a rubber lip seal. Such as jacks and wheel cylinders. and tractor cylinders. With an extension they are used for honing long equipment cylinders. They are not designed for engine rebuilding. Period.
Do people use them? Of course look what tony did above. That engine will start up and run. For how Long? And how Good? That's the mystery that time will tell. Will the rings be sealed for the total travel of the bore? Probably not but it will run long enough to get paid for the job.
Yeah, i just figured it might be the one the guy is looking for... only time i have used a bead hone was when doing a quick re-ring/bearing cheapo build.. other than that i have a machine shop handle it..
To each their own. I’ve used a dingleberry home for 40 years and my junk runs pretty good.
I did also. Since those days I have learned from my son about making the bores perfect. The performance gain is noticeable to all the customers tuners on the Dyno , also leak down is better then minimum. Most of the high dollar engine builds that he does the machine work on go on a dyno after built. 6 left yesterday to one race shop. and they dropped 6 more off. From what I heard in the shop but not positive a set of heads from you are going on a bottom end being done by Steve.
This video is long but explains everything pretty good. Torque plates are a must
So I betting 90-95 percent of people building engines are street engines, test n tuners, street strip, or bracket cars. I could spend a ton of money to run 5.95 or budget build an engine to run 6.0 every weekend and have money in my pocket to race every week and buy a burger at the track. That’s the choice I make because I watch builds every week built with the best of parts that never hit the track before they are up for sale. Again the choice is yours. These aren’t heads up engines as they probably fall in the 3% group or less.
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Thank You all! Good information here, I didn't start the thread to have members start bickering against one another, was just looking for a video posted on here. I has not shown up yet. I'll keep looking. Thanks!
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