ir3333
Well-Known Member
Now i've done it!
More Torque than Hp?
- Thread starter hux340
- Start date
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Totally unforgiveable!
ir3333
Well-Known Member
here's a dyno print out ... comp XE268 on a nice ( I know) 355 chev. sm blk. with Dart heads.
Torque and HP values intersect at 5252 rpm just like always.It must represent somethng?
Torque and HP values intersect at 5252 rpm just like always.It must represent somethng?
Horsepower is King ! I manipulate torque with the combo.
T x rpm = P
T x rpm / 5252 = HP
5252 is the constant changes the from P to HP so they could put the power of the 1st engines in a context they could understand. How many actual horses could do the job.
Mathematically they cross there is 500 lbs-ft x 5252rpm / 5252 = 500 hp is the two 5252 cancel each other.
If you measure the power something other like P or Watts etc.. theres no crossing at 5252.
now for the thesis. how does HP work as it regards to torque
Torque is measured by the dyno. Horsepower is figured and not measured.
Hp Is torque and rpm.
If you think torque and rpm move and accelerate your car or if you say hp or watts or some other form of power rating moves and accelerates your car then your right.
Your wrong if you think torque moves the car and hp accelerates it or some form of that or torque has more importance over rpm or hp.
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Thank you. as in my case the *** dyno.
Actually the dyno measures torque and rpm at the same time. Obviously rpm is the easier of the two. Even though hp is being calculated in essence it measuring the power of your engine.
stixx
Well-Known Member
Horsepower is a mathematical function of torque, as 273 and others have said. I should post a few of my redrawn dyno graphs... they all cross at 5252RPM, simple physics. No matter be it a lowly 318 or a race 436...
But a lowly 318 has low torque AND low horsepower, whereas the 436 is quite the opposite. It's all in the combination of all things together... not just the engine alone (edit: to determine who's faster
)
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you will have to manipulate a 340 with gears/ converter to react like a GS stage 1. atypicle generic GM motor with a long arm and tiny bore. I like bigger bore engines.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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I was never in my life that skinny, nor that geeky; that's not me. but check out his pencil-box,lol.
All throughout school, I loved math,geometry, trig, and algebra. And science, but didn't much care for chemistry. I excelled in what I liked.
I took the rest cuz it was mandatory. Didn't like it. And was called lazy for it. I did just well enough to pass. Funny thing is most of thatchit has never been useful for me to know in the near 50 years since. But they graduated a good little Canadian tax payer.
But the things I liked have paid off handsomely over the years.
Yessiree, they do.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
5252 is simply the conversion factor to get the different units to match up correctly (Horsepower and pound-feet). In Metric terms where they rate power in Kilowatts and torque in Newton-meters the dyno graphs look totally different because the conversion factor is 9565. It's all up to interpretation, like philosophy lol... we've become accustomed to how engines feel and how the numbers relate to that feeling, even though they aren't always useful. Like knowing a truck engine makes 150 HP at only 1500 RPM with a peak at say 4000 RPM is actually more useful than knowing how much peak torque it puts out, as you can basically assume the HP rises at a linear rate with RPM up to the peak and any values in between can be converted to find torque with simple math. But it's harder to look at a graph of just an HP curve and say "dang that thing pulls really hard at the bottom end!"
LMAO! Ooooooo kayyyyy
mullinax95
Well-Known Member
I've always thought/heard that torque is King on the street and Horsepower is King at the track.
The reason being .... from my understanding... is by the time the HP is kicking in you're breaking the speed limit by a long shot. Speeding and street racing is illegal!
I've always thought/heard that torque is King on the street and Horsepower is King at the track.
The reason being .... from my understanding... is by the time the HP is kicking in you're breaking the speed limit by a long shot. Speeding and street racing is illegal!
Your engine makes hp from idle to redline. A dyno graph is misleading. I feel lots think under 5252 rpm torque is at work and above hp takes over. Which is untrue. The torque curve is whats is recorded by the dyno the hp curve is whats calculated from the torque. Technically you could throw away the torque curve after cause the hp gives you all the information needed to compare and analysis engines.
But the torque curve does help in one way. Its visually hard to read the very important under hp curve. Where the torque is visually easy for our brains to represent what going on with the hp curve.
Cause we know a flat wide band and high lbs-ft per cid means a strong under the hp curve. But the actual torque numbers are somewhat meaningless cause an engine with 250 lbs-ft peak can be way more powerful than an engine with 500 lbs-ft but obviously would have to be revving in a way higher rpm band.
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I've always thought/heard that torque is King on the street and Horsepower is King at the track.
The reason being .... from my understanding... is by the time the HP is kicking in you're breaking the speed limit by a long shot. Speeding and street racing is illegal!
As for Torque being King of the Street and HP King of the Track. Is cause in a NA engine there only two main ways to make HP which is rpm and torque. On the street you want good power from idle to 4000rpm and above is secondary so your hands are tied with rpm so Torque is your only means in which to build hp mainly by increasing cid and VE. On the track you have less restriction so you can also use rpm. Which by the way is also increasing the displacement in dynamic terms.
Maybe a better way to put it is torque and horse power are always even at 5,252.
Here's an interesting read on the debate: www.powerperformancenews.com/tech-articles/torque-vs-horsepower
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I couldn't read all that nonsense.
I will say he directly contradicts Harold Bettes several times. And contradicts many other engineers.
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