MP 509 cam

-
R

ronw

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
197
Reaction score
12
Location
cashtown,Pa.
I have a new MP 509 Hyd fat tappet cam, I'm thinking of putting in my sons 340 but he asked if there would be an advantage to using the same type cam in a roller. The car is a 68 GTS Dart 4 speed car and will see very little time at the track. Is the added expense worth the money? Ron
 
IMO it is absolutely worth the money. There isnt a single modern car that is produced without a roller cam. Present day oils do not contain the necessary zinc to keep a flat tappet cam alive in the long run. Roller cams idle better, make more vacuum (because they open and close the valve "quicker" they have less duration for a given lift) and have a better power range. When my 509 cam wiped a lobe I went with a hydraulic roller cam and couldnt have been happier.
 
Any other manufacturers cam would be an improvement over that old and outdated Mopar cam,leave it on the shelf where it belongs..as for going roller big difference in price thats for sure putting one in my new build but my car is 80% drag strip..
 
There are so many cam choices better than the .509. It is one of my least favorite grinds and I would never used one, even if it were free.
 
The Pruple 292 cam can still perform well. As others LOVE to rant the words, "Outdated" a lot as if the cam can not perform is ridiculous. Though the other half of such statements are true. There are better cams made today that will perform better for street vehicles.
The Purple cam makes for an inexpensive (budget) street strip cam.
It'll power a car into the low 12's with the correct parts.

I myself went to a Hyd. roller cam on my current 360 and solid roller on the next future build. It has been an expensive upgrade.

Many ask why should I spend 3 times the cash on a cam and still have to spend another (nearly) 2 times the cams price for lifters?

The roller cam has a few advantages that start to add up and the further you dive into a more and more powerful engine, these advantages start to add up and show themselves well.

The biggest two would be the abilty to really lift the valve a lot. The other is the abilty to have more area under the curve (duration @.050) to cram more air and fuel into the engine.
3, just the rolling action of the lifters instead of the high friction sliding tappet is HP.

I think so very much you will be happy at the performance of a roller cam over the flat tappet.
I don't think you will enjoy the price tag that goes with it.
An excellent compromise is a solid lifter cam. Not so expensive, and aggressive lobes are available. Investigate these areas starting with Hughesengines.com. Comp, Lunati, Crane, Bullet cams are other places to look at.

Hyd. = Inexpensive & reliable
Solid = more money but more power and RPM.
Hyd. Roller = expensive, reliable
Solid roller = Max power & RPM.
 
Being a 4 speed car, you can get away with the bad manners that cam has at idle.

It's going to idle really rough and want plenty of initial timing.
 
The engine in my car used to have a ".509" cam in it. I went with the 284/.528 solid and was much happier and so was the car.

Something to also consider is everyone here, myself included, is most likely talking about the old .509 cam. There is a newer cut of that cam offered by MPP with the same specs as the old one except a 114LSA. Now that .509 grind I'd probably give a shot and probably run 1:6 rockers to bump up that weak lift number.

However, I've always preferred solid cams. I avoided them early on in my hot rod years because of ignorant idiots that didn't know how to set valve lash telling me you'd have to set the lash all the time. Which is total BS. I drive my car 99% on the street about 7 months out of the year. I maybe adjust them once a year and if I do it takes a whopping 30min to do it.
 
ronw said:
Looking for comments on what make and profile roller cam should I look for in our GTS 340 10:1 compression in front of a stock 4 speed.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for a hydraulic roller the Crane 699631 and 699641 are nice grinds for your combo.
 
ronw said:
The 340 has cast iron "J"'s with 2.02 and 1.60 exh no porting done. What do you think. Ron
Click to expand...


Would prefer atleast some port work done to increase the airflow,springs that match the cam for sure..the stock ones won't cut it..
 
I ran that cam in my Eddie-headed 367 streeter @ about 11.3Scr.It was a wild ride when it came on, and it pulled to well past what I wanted to rev to. But with a stick car the bottom was, um, terrible. Without a TC, it wanted a lot of starter gear, or a lot of clutch. With 3.55s and a 2.66 low, the power didn't start until nearly 40 mph. Well guess what, most of the time on a streeter, I spent driving at 35 or less. So that wasn't working for me.
4.30s brought it down to 35mph. Swapping to a 3.09 low tranny, brought it down to 30,Yipee! 4.88s brought it down to 27mph,Double Yipee! But now in normal driving mode, first gear was ridiculously low. And of course I had to buy an overdrive to hit the highway. But man that thing pulled. From about 5000 on, it was a terror.
It also gulped gas like a fish gulps water, and this was supposed to be a DD all summer.
Yeah, so the first passenger that nearly giggled himself wet, he liked it so much I sold it to him cheap; BaBam!!

If you run that cam, you will want to set your engine up ,to shift near 7000rpm, so you will need to do a few mods to your oiling system; or expect to lose rods,and/or crank. I shifted that bad-boy at up to 7200.Yeah;cast cranks go there. OR at least mine does;stock 360 crank and 340-type rods, with KB-107 lightweight hypers.
Oh yeah, a 3.31 stroker will be even softer out-of-the-gate.
But I guess this is the Racer's Forum, so none of this may apply to you,lol. I just wanted to let you know a little about this cam's personality. I don't miss it;at all.
 
Last edited:
This ^^^^^ X's 2. I had it in a 4spd E body Cuda with 4.10's.
Just say "YES!" to oil mods. His warning was my fate. I Spun a bearing.
 
I believe this is the cam in my 72 currently. 12 inches of vacuum and seems to idle somewhat docile.... Not sure of the rest since it's been sitting 30 years.

If this cam goes flat I would replace it with a small solid. Very reliable and as said not so cumbersome in regards to maintenance.

Asking about this cam really boils down to the intent of the car and budget. If I had the P to V clearance and other things complemented it why not? You won't be a pioneer using it and this stick may satisfy your short term goals.....

JW
 
Use the cam you have. A 3.90 gear and a stick is plenty street able.

A hydraulic roller is a waste of money for what you are doing. The OEM's would STILL be using flat lifters if the government stayed out of the car business.

You need 1.75 headers and a Strip Dominator. It will run 12's all day long.

If you don't use the cam, don let some poser talk you into a cam with a LSA wider than about 109. Any more than that and it will be a PIG, need a big split to RPM.
 
ronw said:
I have a new MP 509 Hyd fat tappet cam, I'm thinking of putting in my sons 340 but he asked if there would be an advantage to using the same type cam in a roller. The car is a 68 GTS Dart 4 speed car and will see very little time at the track. Is the added expense worth the money? Ron
Click to expand...
hi. ok, with a solid roller, you will need longer valves, for extra lift, the heads will have to be reworked for air flow at the new lift.
piston valve clearance will be an issue. it's a lot of expense and work. for a stock street motor, naw. nothing is free or cheap about rollers. a good flat tappet cam will do just fine. very low maintenance and expense. 7000 rpm does you nothing on street, you will be running at lower RPM,s.
 
Yeah so the point of my ramble I forget to say.To quote perfacar;
"7000 does you nothing on the street."
If you need more power, stroke it.
See 7000 rpm with 3.91s say is about 54mph at the top of first, and then what? Put in second for as long as it takes to lose the race,to 60.
Naw prawbly 90% of the time you will be doing the the start to 35 mph thing. And it's nice to cruize in second at 2800 or less. So that will take oh let's see, I vote 3.73s. These will get you around 32 at 2850. Then when you slam it down one, you will be doing 3944.
So put a cam in there that pulls hard at 3944 and call it a day.
Or just pedal it a bit.
If you need more power, put some nice heads on it, or stroke it,or supercharge it.
BTW to make torque at 3944 takes not much of a cam, in terms of duration. Put some decent heads on it, and a high-lift moderate period cam, instead of the 509; you will have way better street manners and waaaay more fun, and then if you got some extra cash, go find a 3.09 low box, for a very nice 11.52 starter gear.
Oh yeah try to keep the cylinder pressure up in the fun Zone at 150 or better.Even better is 165psi.With aluminum heads you can go to 185, or better.
The big 509cam will make idling around in first with street gears and a 2.66 low awful jumpy. You will be slipping the clutch constantly, a royal PITA.It may get to jumping so bad it will seam like the u-joints are ready to snap. The 3.09low will ease this considerably, as will retarding the idle timing way down.I went to 4.30s(11.44starter gear) to get rid of it, and then a GV to get the hi-way revs down.With the 3.09 low, I could run 3.91s(12.08 starter), but I broke those. With retarded idle timing and the 3.09low, I could run 3.55s(10.97 starter), and have run them almost ever since.
But I just gotta tell ya 7200 into dual 3 inch pipes with Dynomaxers, is tremendously addictive! I'm real glad it only takes a few seconds to hit the speed limit, or I mighta blown it up many times over. Get a rev limiter, for sure, cuz when it starts screaming, the tendency to let her, is right there!..
 
Last edited:
yellow rose said:
Use the cam you have. A 3.90 gear and a stick is plenty street able.

A hydraulic roller is a waste of money for what you are doing. The OEM's would STILL be using flat lifters if the government stayed out of the car business.

You need 1.75 headers and a Strip Dominator. It will run 12's all day long.

If you don't use the cam, don let some poser talk you into a cam with a LSA wider than about 109. Any more than that and it will be a PIG, need a big split to RPM.
Click to expand...
Agreed except the single plane intake. A RPM will do the trick. A Hyd. roller is OK but a solid roller would be what I was thinking of.
perfacar said:
hi. ok, with a solid roller, you will need longer valves, for extra lift, the heads will have to be reworked for air flow at the new lift.
piston valve clearance will be an issue. it's a lot of expense and work. for a stock street motor, naw. nothing is free or cheap about rollers. a good flat tappet cam will do just fine. very low maintenance and expense. 7000 rpm does you nothing on street, you will be running at lower RPM,s.
Click to expand...
The notion of needing longer valves is only needed if you have the big lift and you can do without it. A cam doesn't have to come with big lift because it is a solid roller. That would fix a lot of what he said there after. And agree about the solid lifter cam for a cheaper but still get powerful cam replacement.
My "small" solid roller is bigger @.050 than the .509 but yet it still doesn't have sky high lift. (Well, almost....)
 
With all this crap..I would just buy a 572 cubic inch Hemi...........
 
LMAO, & you'll be WAAAAYYY ahead of the curve!
 
ronw said:
I have a new MP 509 Hyd fat tappet cam, I'm thinking of putting in my sons 340 but he asked if there would be an advantage to using the same type cam in a roller. The car is a 68 GTS Dart 4 speed car and will see very little time at the track. Is the added expense worth the money? Ron
Click to expand...

70aarcuda said:
With all this crap..I would just buy a 572 cubic inch Hemi...........
Click to expand...

A bit much for the GTS, and probably for the son too.
But hey, if I come and live with you and call you daddy, and let you put that monster into my 68 Cuda; would that be OK?
lol.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top