my first engine rebuild (318) advises

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peelo57

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Hi

i a going to rebuild mine 1972 stock 318 from plymouth duster next winter.
I havent done engine rebuild so this will be mine first.

what i have now:
stock 318 exept edel performer intake, summit 600cfm carb, hooker headers (bad), 2 1/4 dual exhaust and hei ign.
rear is 8 1/4 sg 3.21.
i am planing to use a500 trans from 91 van, so my cruising rpm will be about 1800.

SO my plan is to build high torque at low rpm 1000-4000 rpm

I dont care max hp number, just torque and good throttle response, kind of mpg build.


this is what i am thinking.
Basic rebuild kit, new bearings gasgets.
If cylinders are in good condition, just honing and using kb167 pistons to get compression up.
I haven't opened my engine yet, so i don't know what kind of shape it is (broke mine arm last week) but it drives well. Trying to get compression up at about 9.5-10.

I will be using stock 1972 318 heads just valve job if needed and i will port mach them and open them up little.

as for the cam i would like to use lunati voodoo cam kit
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2340&gid=297
or
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2341&gid=297

Can i use stock valve parts with these cams? and springs?

So what you think about of this combo?

so minimum machining what block needs is, cylinder honing, balancing and checking that surfaces are straight. Other machining as required.

I will brobably tearing down my engine in september, so thats when i am going to see what kind of shape it is. Before that i am trying to figure optimal combination.

AND last, inside picture from this engine from last winter when i did intake swap. Least it looks clean on this picture :)
 

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i just rebuilt my 318 with 701 lunati cam lifter kit had heads cleaned up heavier springs new rings honed block after shop vleaned and installed cam bearings wiend action plus had summiy 600 carb did not like just put on eddy 600 car runs great sounds great great cruiser you will like that cam lifter kit
 
Put in better/higher compression pistons and wake up that 318.
 
318 pretty much what you want to do
 

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I'd use the bigger cam and a max 9.5-1 ratio for compression.
 
i dont really know what compression will be. but using KB167 pistons it should be fairly high.
Trying to get good quench and those pistons are looking way to do it.

i will start to calculate compression when i open engine up and i can measure heads cc's and how far down stock pistons are.

i would really want to avoid putting too much cam on my combo.
So i brobably need heavier springs if i put 10200701LK cam?

I really hope my engine is on good shape, machining is really expensive here.
boring one hole is about 100$ and there is 8....
balancing block is about 250$...

Least i can do some basic machining myself.

BTW whats your engine combo, duster rege? looks nice :)
 
Use the cam manufacturers springs or find out the requirements of the cam and look at other companies springs to match.
 
ill have to be in contact cam manufacturer (lunati),
soon as i start opening my engine and i know its shape and i can calculate actual compression ratio, so they can also recomend what cam i should use.

I am planing to make thread here on my engine rebuild and how this combo works when its ready. i havent really seen any mpg builds in these forums.
I know it dont make sense to concern about mpg on v8 but i want see how effcient i can make this engine. more torgue, beter mpg.

And gas here cost over 8$ gallon and everything is pretty long distance away here above arctic circle...
 

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i really want to get building engine...
but i will cruise around till end of summer.
Winter is good time to build car, when there is 20'' of snow everywhere:)
 
peelo57 said:
i dont really know what compression will be. but using KB167 pistons it should be fairly high.
Trying to get good quench and those pistons are looking way to do it.

i will start to calculate compression when i open engine up and i can measure heads cc's and how far down stock pistons are.

:)
Click to expand...


If you haven't bought heads and pistons yet, here's a trick.

Use standard 360 heads with 1.88" or 2.02" intake valves. then get a set of 10.5:1 pistons for a 318. The larger combustion chamber of the 340/360 head will give you 9.2:1 compression with 10.5 pistons.

Or if using 318 heads, you can always have the machinist open up the valves to 360 with 1.88" intakes and 1.60 exhaust and make sure he puts hardened seats in for the exhaust valves.
 
Other assembly tips:

Research where ALL oil galley plugs are and make sure that they are properly reinstalled before assembling the block. A missing one will cause you much grief.

Make sure that the piston rings spin freely on the piston before installing them. Also make sure that the two "rail" rings for the oil scraper and the two compression ring gaps are at least 90° apart or more (180°).

Find out how to use plastic guage and measure all crank and rod bearing clearances when assembling. This will make sure that the bearings are correct when it is still easy to fix (It sucks to find out after the engine is installed and having problems).

Unbend (straighten) an old wire coat hanger and poke it through all oil galley/feed holes to make sure that they are not obstructed. Like the holes for the top main bearings on the crank should go through the top of the block into the lower cam bearings. The oil holes for the heads coming out of the #2 and #4 cam bearings. The cam bearing holes should not be more than half overlapped or they should be redone. If they are better than 50% aligned (like 90 or more) you should be good.

When assembling the egine and you get the urge to pee, Don't face into the wind if you pee outside.... Don't ask how I know this...
 
If your block needs to be bored, only then buy new pistons.

Before buying the expensive as heck KB167's consider using these magnum pistons and METRIC rings to suit (file fit is even better).

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h814cp/overview/

MUCH cheaper than KB167s!

They popup higher in the bore more than stock (not as much as KB167) and are true flat tops with no valve reliefs, the cams you're looking at are tiny and should be fine with no piston-to-valve interference, the pistons will fit on your LA connecting rods but the small end will have to be narrowed.

If you go for these or the KB's you will need to get your rotating assembly rebalanced.

If your cylinder heads need a valve job, consider buying 2.02"/1.6" valves.
This will help bring your compression up slightly by about 3.5CC and increase cylinder head flow dramatically

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-45640-8/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-45645-8/overview/

For your stated needs I would not recommend spending any money on port work, you won't notice it when driving.

You will probably need new cam bearings, main bearings, big end bearings, fuel pump, water pump, oil pump etc so be sure to factor these into your budget.
 
well those pistons look like good choice.

if my orginal pistons are not way down in hole, those pistons would give cc about 9,0:1

i know i need to balance rotating assembly, but i will brobably do that anyway, i hear that stock pistons/rods can have big weight difirences.

if i would use those pistons, is that rod narrowing thing something that i can do in garage or do i need to go to the machinist? machining is quite expensive here.

i am planning to use kit from summit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem-csmhp810-300/overview/make/plymouth
of course i have to measure my engine before buying to get correct set.
i will customize that kit and get what need on my rebuild.
i am planing to swap all gaskets, bearings plus oil, water, fuel pump and timing gear.

heads are still mystery to me, haven't opened them or done compression test, have to that someday.
but if they need valve job, those bigger valves would be nice.
i would do cylinder port job my self, something small, brobably just gasket mach.

I have friend who owns tractor repair shop, so i can do most of machining there, pressing cylinders to rods, honing.

Balancing and boring cant do, because its cheaper to put new cylinder pipes than overbore them on tractors.

i have about 2 months to figure my combination and fidlle around it. factory service manual and this book have been good information when planning this build
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Mopar-Design/dp/1932494545"]How to Rebuild the Small-Block Mopar (S-A Design): Bill Burt: 9781932494549: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

BUT FABO is even better source of information :)
 
i have been reading more and i have some questions about piston rods and wrist pins.

So stock 1972 318 engine should have floating wrist pins, not pressed?
so can i use stock wrist pins with kb167 pistons or do i need new pins?

Piston rods are other thing that i want to ask.
i really dont know that kind of abuse rods have taken in last 40+ years, or have rods been removed before.
Thats why i am thinking, do need new rods, if so are these correct?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-6123cb/overview/make/plymouth

it will be brobably cheaper here to just buy new rods than recondition old ones.
 
I admire your ambition on running a Mopar in Finland north of the Arctic Circle. It would be like me trying to find used sheet metal for a Saab 96 in Hotter Than Hell, Texas.

It seems to me if you are serious about fuel economy, using a 4-barrel carburetor, bigger valves, and a longer duration camshaft are going to be counter-productive. Higher compression, on the other hand, is good.

If the heads have not been off the engine, the pistons and connecting rods haven't been out either. To remove the pistons, you'll need either a ridge reamer (for a big ridge) or a cylinder hone (for a small one) before you try to extract the pistons. It is very important to get the bore smooth all the way to the top if you are planning to re-use the pistons. If the bore is not smooth, the rings will hang the piston up damaging the place where the rings sit in the piston. Your friend with the tractor repair business probably understands this.

If you are going to re-use the pistons, I'd re-use the wrist pins as long as they are completely smooth. The connecting rods are probably good to go as long as they are not twisted, bent, or cracked. I've re-used wrist pins and connecting rods several times before with no regrets or performance issues. As far as wrist pins for the KB pistons are concerned, you'll have to ask them if they need something special or if the stock pins are good to use.
 
well, saab parts are not really common in here, and they are more expensive, like all european car parts. most common cars here are toyota and nissan :)

Mine 4 barrel carb (summit brand 600) gets about same mileage than my old 2bbr carb 18mpg on 3.2gears.

i will brobably leave stock size valves, but will swap cam, not anything big those two what i am thinking are 2 smallest of lunati woodoo line.
those cams should have good low end torque.

better compression is one of goals, thats why i am thinking piston swap.

ok so its possible to reuse pins it they are good condition, thats good to know.
i have to check all parts of the engine when i get it opened, so i can see whats its condition.

Here all distances are long and most of driving is on highways doing 60mph. thats why i want more low end torque and OD gearbox.

Next weekend we have last meeting of the summer, about 100 miles north fb page of the meeting.
https://www.facebook.com/rautaarajalle

after that its engine rebuild time
 
lol Saab. I guess that's the reason they went bankrupt.

If KB pistons blow the budget, there may be some less expensive help. The stock '72-86 piston sits 0.056 below the surface of the block with the crankshaft at full extension on the cylinder. The 67-69 sits 0.036 in the hole. Some rebuild kits include pistons. Just specify the 67-69 piston when buying the kit. No modifications are necessary.

The 72 piston has a plain flat-top, while the 67-69 has four valve reliefs, as shown below. Good luck with both the meeting and the rebuild.
 

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Also, the a500 is the Torqueflite with the overdrive extension housing, I have read that there's a high probability you will need to modify your transmission tunnell to make it fit.
 
that cam looks good too.
thats little smaller than smallest voodoo cam.

i have seen a500 transmissions i a bodies with stock trans hump just some carefull hammer hits on right spots. crossmember needs to be remade as do transmission mount.
Thats not big deal, i have MIG and gas welder and lots of steel to modify those.
My duster has already 8 1/4 rear from dodge aspen, i welded new spring perches and shortened drive shaft with old russian made turning lathe :)
And it still holds, didnt even need any weigths :)
 
I would go with Scat I-beams if your budget allows. Very light and strong. You are on the right track focusing on getting the compression up. That is one of the primary keys to getting good power from a 318.
 
well.
got to try my current engine on 1/4 mile.
first time doing this.

15.9 sec and 143km/h equals 88,8mph.
slipery track first sec was wheelspin.
 

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